Molaker
Well-known member
Me and my Ace 100 tore up the trails about then. I carried pieces out of the woods on my back many a time.TonyDtorch said:
Motorcycle Question
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QZ
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Molaker said:Gee, don't anyone have a Hodaka these days?
Since we are veering off into motorcycles and their history.......
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hodaka
I always wanted one but ended up with a 1968 Suzuki 50 street trail as my first real bike. I bought it new from a woman who won it, paid $175. First ride was a mini bike with a Continental engine. It was a big move up to the Suzuki when the chain wasn't loose all the time or I didn't have to drive a penny into the centrifugal clutch when the recoil broke on the mini bike. Japanese bikes revolutionized motorcycles in America. As mentioned in the link, a lot of people moved on to street bikes which probably corresponded to the introduction of the Honda Dream and then the 350 street scrambler and then the CB 750. I remember a friend in high school smoking the tire and doing wheelies with his four cylinder 750 Honda. I had a 500 CC Kawasaki triple 2 stroke. At about 100 mph my girlfriend/wife would start beating on my back to slow down. YES, she was crazy enough to marry me and shes now riding her own street bike, dirt bike and ATV at 62 yr old.
A lot of the USA motorcycle history is interesting. During the early 80's Harley wanted trade restrictions placed on the Japanese bikes because they were so competitive. Reagan was going to do it but Harley instead agreed to accept Japanese loan guarantees and later used their machining and manufacturing technology along with components such as Nippon Denso. Competition encourages better products for consumers so it's change or die. Now Harley is facing a problem of changing demographics such as baby boomers and need a more diversified customer base.
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TonyDtorch
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the one thing I can't forgive the Japanese motorcycle industry for the the attempted assassination of the American and British motorcycle builders.
In the late 60's early 70's the Japs figured out our political system....so they 'Lobbied' Congress to pass a new motorcycle manufacturing safety law, that standardizes all motorcycles to shift on the Left Side only. ....'for the motorcycling public safety'.
That law came into effect in 1975.
Harley scrambled and came up with a Quick fix for the 1975 Sportster.... and started retooling to meet the law.
Triumph did not produce a 1975 model and started retooling .. most other British makers just closed their doors.
The Japs killed everyone. and they also killed factory sponsored Flat Track racing. (you can't shift, if your shifter is in the dirt).
As you can tell by what the Japanese Auto industry has done since over the years is visible everywhere here in America. It's rare to see anything American made.
In the late 60's early 70's the Japs figured out our political system....so they 'Lobbied' Congress to pass a new motorcycle manufacturing safety law, that standardizes all motorcycles to shift on the Left Side only. ....'for the motorcycling public safety'.
That law came into effect in 1975.
Harley scrambled and came up with a Quick fix for the 1975 Sportster.... and started retooling to meet the law.
Triumph did not produce a 1975 model and started retooling .. most other British makers just closed their doors.
The Japs killed everyone. and they also killed factory sponsored Flat Track racing. (you can't shift, if your shifter is in the dirt).
As you can tell by what the Japanese Auto industry has done since over the years is visible everywhere here in America. It's rare to see anything American made.
xrated
Well-known member
TonyDtorch wrote:
There is an incredibly easy solution for that issue. As some of you know, I have been an Instructor with the largest motorcycle track day organization in the U.S.A. We ride motorcycles capable of lean angles approaching 60 degrees from vertical, while going through corners. The easy answer is what is called GP shift pattern, where instead of the normal 1 down then 4 or 5 up for a shifting pattern, the shift patter is changed to be 1 up, then 4 or 5 down.....just the exact opposite of the normal pattern. Without this modification, there would be no way to upshift the bike as you are exiting a corner. The rearsets are also set higher and further back to allow more clearance while leaned over.
And to all of you Motorcycle folks on here......if you EVER......EVER get an opportunity to be in the Birmingham, AL area, a MUST DO is to visit the Barber Motorsports Museum in Leeds, AL. There is approx. 550,000 sq.ft. of the most pristine museum containing motorcycles of every type, model, brand, age that you have EVER SEEN. Mr. Barber owns the world's largest Motorcycle museum and it is simply breath-taking to experience it. And there will typically be 750 or so motorcycles on display there at any given time. He owns many more than that, but until you see it in person, there is absolutely nothing I can type/say that would adequately describe it. It's that special.
There is an incredibly easy solution for that issue. As some of you know, I have been an Instructor with the largest motorcycle track day organization in the U.S.A. We ride motorcycles capable of lean angles approaching 60 degrees from vertical, while going through corners. The easy answer is what is called GP shift pattern, where instead of the normal 1 down then 4 or 5 up for a shifting pattern, the shift patter is changed to be 1 up, then 4 or 5 down.....just the exact opposite of the normal pattern. Without this modification, there would be no way to upshift the bike as you are exiting a corner. The rearsets are also set higher and further back to allow more clearance while leaned over.
And to all of you Motorcycle folks on here......if you EVER......EVER get an opportunity to be in the Birmingham, AL area, a MUST DO is to visit the Barber Motorsports Museum in Leeds, AL. There is approx. 550,000 sq.ft. of the most pristine museum containing motorcycles of every type, model, brand, age that you have EVER SEEN. Mr. Barber owns the world's largest Motorcycle museum and it is simply breath-taking to experience it. And there will typically be 750 or so motorcycles on display there at any given time. He owns many more than that, but until you see it in person, there is absolutely nothing I can type/say that would adequately describe it. It's that special.
Corky
Well-known member
A 1975 Sportster was one of the bikes I rode for years. It was a unique bike due to the standardization's that were forced thru congress.
The shift mechanism was just a band-aide resolution to meet those standards. It had a crossover linkage, with an extended brake & shift lever. It worked as it should until the bushing wore. With even the slightest of wear it would make finding neutral almost impossible, and downright frustrating. The cure was to remove all of the mandated hardware and go back to right side shift. Took all of an hour to do, downside is be prepared to fix the the transmission if you loan the bike to your little brother, who has raised riding left side shifters.
The shift mechanism was just a band-aide resolution to meet those standards. It had a crossover linkage, with an extended brake & shift lever. It worked as it should until the bushing wore. With even the slightest of wear it would make finding neutral almost impossible, and downright frustrating. The cure was to remove all of the mandated hardware and go back to right side shift. Took all of an hour to do, downside is be prepared to fix the the transmission if you loan the bike to your little brother, who has raised riding left side shifters.
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TonyDtorch
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QZ said:
And during the 90's, in an effort to save America's already struggling automotive industry and jobs, congress approved import quotas.
Each maker can only import so many vehicles. .... So, the Japanese change the nameplates of 1/2 their cars....Toyota/Lexus, Nissan/Infinity, Honda/Acura. In Japan some of the same Lexus cars actually had Toyota badges, In America the Lexus E300 is actually a re-badged Toyota Camry.
Be careful of your worship of all things Japanese. They are ruthless business people and would love to dominate the world economy.
America was building good products once upon a time, they have taught you to believe that our industries died, because of their superior products..
To all you millennials I say....Those that don't know History, are doomed to repeat it.
malexander
Well-known member
One of the FUNNIEST things I saw, probably 30 years ago, was a "hippie" looking guy in a convenience store. He had on all the "stuff" for buy American, had on all the Harley shirts & jacket, etc. I watched him go outside and get into his vehicle, a Honda Civic. ;D ;D ;D
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TonyDtorch
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malexander said:
yep, they kicked our ass. (not exactly fair and square ..IMO)
In the future, Americans will all be driving their wonderful little Subarus, Civics and Camrys up to see... "The Toyota Mt.Rushmore Experience (TM.)" ...
You should be very proud.
xrated
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TonyDtorch said:yep, they kicked our ass. (not exactly fair and square ..IMO)
In the future, Americans will all drive their wonderful little Subarus, Civics and Camrys up to see... "The Toyota Mt.Rushmore Experience (TM.)" ...
You should be very proud.
So I'm curious Tony...do you own anything NOT made in the U.S.A.......tools, clothing, appliances, computers and computer parts, Televisions, wrist watches, etc?
QZ
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Japanese couldn't kill anything. The gov makes the laws and allows lobbyist and now corporations are considered people. Textiles, steel, autos, so who's running the show? Government. Japanese can't help it if they brought a motorcycle over here that didn't leak oil. People must like that. We hoisted a rusty tiny Honda Civic to the roof of our high school during graduation 45 yr ago. Lousy car at first but they learned.
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TonyDtorch
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Oh be serious...nothing is made in America anymore.xrated said:
Why do you think America is broke. We are a nation of consumers with only service industry, the only jobs are selling Toyotas..
And unfortunately, American pick-ups just plodded along until Tundras showed what half-ton pick-ups were capable of doing. If the Tundra hadn't hit the streets, American pick-ups would still be lacking 10 years of improvement. The car industry is the same. The Japanese didn't do this to our country, our industries, controlled by stock holders did.
xrated
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TonyDtorch said:
I always get a laugh out of the people that are like...I'm buying an "AMERICAN" made motorcycle, not that Japanese crap. Did you know that the forks on the Harleys are made by Showa....a Honda owned company? Did you know that the Brembo brakes aren't American made either? A majority of the electronics that are on the Harleys are Japanese made! When I worked in motorcycle sales, you couldn't find an American made piece of Harley branded clothing in the Harley Davidson dealership! What's up with that....riding an "American" made Harley with Japanese parts, then getting pissed off when someone else prefers another brand? I'm not saying that pissed off person is YOU, I'm saying that there is a lot of folks walking around with blinders on....trying to be something that they are not. The Japanese products from years ago were in fact, mostly junk, everyone knew that and made fun of that. But the Japanese adapted.....figuring out how to build better and better products. Their success pushed, for example, the American car industry to make a choice....either start building better cars to compete with their Japanese competitors, or lose marketshare. If forced a lot of the industries to improve their products because most people would rather spend their hard earned money for a quality product than to spend the same amount, maybe more, on inferior products. It's reality. You can love it, you can hate it, or you can just ignore it....but the bottom line is that the available product choices of many things have improved tremendously over the years. The Chinese are going through that very same thing right now, that the Japanese did 50 years ago. They will improve also....which will, in the end, cause the American industry to improve their products to a higher quality.....or they will fall behind and lose marketshare.
xrated
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kdbgoat said:
That ^^^^ is very true! Competition has a tendency to bring out the best in the competitors.....or be left behind and fade into oblivion!
malexander
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xrated said:
SPOT ON. So glad someone could put into words what I've thought for YEARS.
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TonyDtorch
Guest
Yep, American manufacturing is done. The japs have beaten us.
I'll bet those old Cessnas you have are another good example of American made crap.
I'll bet those old Cessnas you have are another good example of American made crap.
xrated
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TonyDtorch said:
I don't recall ANYONE saying that American manufacturing is done.....except you....but that was a nice/clever way to twist some words around a bit. We don't live in a "just American" economy. Global economics is a part of modern day life, and again, you can chose to accept it, deny it, or ignore it....but facts are facts whether you accept them or not.
I'm done with this, as it has strayed waaaaay off of the topic of the thread.
xrated
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malexander said:
Thanks....it needed said!
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TonyDtorch
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malexander said:
I chuckle when all the hipster Honda guys get so excited about Showa forks on Harleys..
Everyone in motorcycles knows Harley used Showa forks since the 1950's ?? was that really news to you ?
And as for the great rear-sets idea....take it out on a dirt oval and let me know how it works out.... ;D
Funny....Today in 2017..In AMA flattrack racing Harley still remains very competitive against all the multi-millon dollar Japanese high tech factory racing teams...With the exact same designed and built 1972 XR750 Sprotster engine.
(And XR750s are leakers. ..I've owned 2 of them)
QZ
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If it's all Japan fault why were the British bikes coming here before them? Oh wait I remember, the British bikes were leakers too. I guess they weren't a treat to the original leaker.
It's also interesting that some can say Japan, Japanese, British and not resort to racist slurs. We could very easily have Japanese decent members here
It's also interesting that some can say Japan, Japanese, British and not resort to racist slurs. We could very easily have Japanese decent members here
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