2005 Itasca Sunnova Parallax Charger... Failure?

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For the sake of the batteries, it might be wise to take them back and have them charged while you are waiting for the converter. For your application the batteries are more than adequate.
 
Batts are heading back to retailer this Saturday... I figure a week would be long enough to test/charge while getting the  new charger/converter sent this way  8).

The old Parallax had TWO green wires going to the negative ground bus bar, one wire between the charger's negative and the bus bar, the other wire between the charger's metal chassis frame and that same bus bar. Some of these replacement charger/converters do not appear to require any "metal chassis frame to bar" wire (only the typical +/-) ???  :eek:. Fools like me can thank God for reverse polarity protection, etc.  :-[  ::) I'll look closely before proceeding.

YYesss! They DO have chassis grounding lugs (both PD and IOTA)! Just had to find the installation manuals :-[ ::) Now which one...

So far the PD has it, mostly because the 'wizard' feature works as an extension (I can set the indicator above and not break my back to get an indication of batt charge status). With the IOTA, I'd apparently have to move the entire charger up to really enjoy what benefit that I could reap from that one's 'wizard' indicator (only knowing, not manipulating, if need be).
 
The chassis frame and house metal bits and pieces are at the same potential as the negative side of the batteries (i.e., connected.) However Winnie brings both negative and positive wires to whatever thingy requires 12V (which is good engineering to avoid ground loops.)
 
Hey, what a coincidence.... as a radio ?hamateur?, I?m told to hate ground loops  8) On that side of things, however, from now on I may have to use one of my separate AC to DC Astron power converters, made exclusively for my radios. Unless someone feels that predominantly listening to a .5 amp receive/ 4 amp max transmit radio shouldn?t tax the new 12 volt battery/charger/converter arrangement.  ???

Gee, some sites say to go directly off the RV 12 volts with such radios! ??? The cigarette lighter up front was working fine! I?d miss such minimalizing simplicity!  :-\
 
WB5THT, Extra Class hamster here (and a volunteer examiner.) Four amps isn't much, I wouldn't worry about it. When we're on the road, I bring my Elecraft K3s and a small switching power supply - it's a bunch easier than trying to run 12V back to the house batteries.  I have several old Astron power supplies that aren't in service - too large and heavy. The better switch mode power supplies are very RF quiet.
 
Okay...just ordered a new pair of foot long 1 ga. cables for paralleling the coach batts... one of those terminals was nearly as thin as a fuse!  :eek: Must have been from all of that occasional ‘dremmelling’ off the corrosion that I did to them over the last five years  :-[ Must remember: Baking soda, water ;D (or at the very least, wire bristle instead of stone bit :-[ )

I’m looking at PD9260c... It’s ovverrated on the DC side of things (it would be a 60 amp charger replacing a defunct 45 amp supply). So I know for sure that a higher current charger, alone, could allow all DC appliances run simultaneously w/o breaking any sweat. On the AC side of things, being rated abt. 300 watts more than the old charger, this means that it can handle more, not that it would automatically require more 24/7, once that everything is in place? From the penny-pincher’s perspective, it would only use what is demanded from it, no? Maybe nice, however, to have everything overrated so it won’t be taxed to death... Or could my electric be taxed to death? :eek:  Hmm...

On the batt side of things, regardless of charger’s amp supply, they all automatically periodically test to see what the batt needs, and adjust volts accordingly (bulk, float, absorption, etc) A higher current charger won’t require a third battery, or anything? I take it that the process of battery charging involves a change in volts, not amps, right?


[quoting Joel]
“Make sure your generator can handle the charger (Power Converter) if you plan to dry camp.

I have a 40 amp charger, 1000 watt generator, and 220 amp hours of battery. They all work together nicely.

40 amps at 14.4 volts plus losses ~600 watts - comfortable for my 1 kw.
60 amps ~ 900 watts - maxes out the 1 kw's continuous rating.”

Oh no, there goes the flexibility (if I opt for a larger converter), if/when I ever do move it!

Anywhoo, just for a lark I bench tested the Parallax for Vout again... This morn 13+ volts from charger, direct to VOM. Swithed out the Astron and in the Parallax, same ‘no DC’ result (fridge, thermostats).

John Canfield, the Icom that I’m using can operate in such a wide volt range (like 9-15v), that any volts typically involved in RVs (batts, chargers, bulk, absorption, float, whatever) couldn’t reach beyond the radios rated specs (w/o failing on their own). Lucky me! N4 Tangled Radio Cables (General, began in the days when everyone still knew Morse)
 
I believe that the 60 amp Progressive Dynamics converter has a 20 amp plug on the AC cord. The receptacle that the converter plugs in to is probably only a 15 amp receptacle. You may have to swap out the receptacle.
 
John Hilley said:
I believe that the 60 amp Progressive Dynamics converter has a 20 amp plug on the AC cord. The receptacle that the converter plugs in to is probably only a 15 amp receptacle. You may have to swap out the receptacle.
The outlet/receptacle that the defunct Parallax used is a 15 amp (common 110, two “vertical prongs” and ground).

A 20 amp outlet/receptacle is of the “left T” design (otherwise the same hole size as the common 15amp receptacles), right?

...Then a larger wire (indoors between the circuit breaker panel box and the new converter/charger’s “T left” receptacle)?

...Then a larger, 20 amp rated circuit breaker swapped/inserted in to the indoor panel box, perhaps wired exclusively to that receptacle (considering the short distance between indoor panel box and present receptacle that serves this function, it could/should already be set up in this general format, with no “sharing” of other receptacle/outlets?)...

...Then the charger/converter hopefully enjoys double protection: First from an indoor 20 amp breaker (exclusively dedicated to the charger’s receptacle), then the 2 outdoor circuit breakers (30 amps total, for entire RV power requirements) in the outdoor breaker panel box...

The math?
PD9260C max continuous input power: 1000 watts (for 60 amps DC out, which we’re not anticipating, we only want circuit breakers to shut off when they should/have to, right?)

On the AC shore side of things, we have a grand total of 110 volts X 30 amps, or 3300 watts AC available

The PD9260C could consume 1000 watts/110 volts = 9 amps power from the AC shore, if I somehow needed full tilt on the DC side of things (not anticipated, just nice to know it’s there “on tap” and not taxing underrated things to death). if I ever reached the need for 9 amps from the charger (highly unlikely), then it would only consume AC current that’s still slightly lower than that of, say, a single air conditioner, the microwave/convection oven, her Kurig Coffee Machine ::), etc.


...Something like this may more than satisfy “daily, continuous living off 110 AC”, but my concerns of powering an overrated converter/charger from the generator (if/when that I ever need to) remain.


 
So A PD9260 would be “plug-n-play” ?(I mean, why the heck would they use the same shaped plug/outlet configuration, if they don’t expect the same [or less] AC current demands then the last converter’s arrangement?)

I mean, let’s see  ???:
Old Parallax power demands: 110vAC, 775 watts (“full-tilt”?), standard three-prong parallel plug
New Progressive PD9260 power demands: 110vAC 1000 watts (“full-tilt”), same three prong

[quoting John Hilley]
“I believe that the 60 amp Progressive Dynamics converter has a 20 amp plug on the AC cord. The receptacle that the converter plugs in to is probably only a 15 amp receptacle. You may have to swap out the receptacle.”

And yet they both use standard “three-prong, parallel blade”? So what’s to change, the circuit breaker? The AC supply wires? ??? Nothing? 8)

So lemmie understand these multi-stage smart chargers a little more: If I’m full-time parked, AC power on always, coach batteries fully charged, then the charger/converter would supply all the demanded DC, alone, for the DC loads. Additionally, the charger goes into ‘desulfation’ mode every day or so, strictly to keep the coach batteries ‘stirred’ a little (not to have the batts run things, only to keep the batts ready, should the need for them ever arise).





 
rookieRV said:
So A PD9260 would be ?plug-n-play? ?(I mean, why the heck would they use the same shaped plug/outlet configuration, if they don?t expect the same [or less] AC current demands then the last converter?s arrangement?)

I mean, let?s see  ???:
Old Parallax power demands: 110vAC, 775 watts (?full-tilt??), standard three-prong parallel plug
New Progressive PD9260 power demands: 110vAC 1000 watts (?full-tilt?), same three prong

[quoting John Hilley]
?I believe that the 60 amp Progressive Dynamics converter has a 20 amp plug on the AC cord. The receptacle that the converter plugs in to is probably only a 15 amp receptacle. You may have to swap out the receptacle.?

And yet they both use standard ?three-prong, parallel blade?? So what?s to change, the circuit breaker? The AC supply wires? ??? Nothing? 8)

So lemmie understand these multi-stage smart chargers a little more: If I?m full-time parked, AC power on always, coach batteries fully charged, then the charger/converter would supply all the demanded DC, alone, for the DC loads. Additionally, the charger goes into ?desulfation? mode every day or so, strictly to keep the coach batteries ?stirred? a little (not to have the batts run things, only to keep the batts ready, should the need for them ever arise).

Mine came with the 20 amp plug, it may be an anomaly, I only changed the receptacle to match the plug. I have no problem with my Honda 2000 watt generator powering the converter and a coffee maker while boondocking.  There is no need to change the breaker or wiring.
 
On the dry camping/boondocking/generator side of things, our generator is 5,500 watts (120vAC @ 45.5amps) Would that warrant much more higher caution w/ the addition of a higher current charger/converter?

Wife desired hot water last night for dish washing, I turned on the 8? gal. heater: The good news is, nothing blew!  ;) The other good news: The Astron didn?t get near as hot (as when running the furnace)! 8) The bad news: What heat that the Astron?s heat sink der?ri??re did gain, it gained in seconds, (not minutes, like with the furnace)! :eek: We scratched that, and used the Keurig to make warm dish water the next day ;D
 
If the water heater draws any current at all from the 12 volt system, it is only for a relay and to power the control board. When plugged into shore power or generator, the converter should not be an issue at all for the converter.
 
Quoting another post:

"The more amps you get from your converter the faster you recharge batteries. Not all that important if you are on electrical hookup. When dry camping, one must run a generator, either one in the rig or one brought along to do that. The lower the amps in the converter the longer the generator needs to run to recharge. Some folks plug in another charger and use both a the same time. Or even a solar charger too. Be aware if you upgrade to a higher amp unit..some cables may need replaced to handle the increase. AC amps and the 120vac have nothing to do with dc amps out of the converter. The converter is part of the draw from the 120v AC load, along with microwave, air conditioner, tv or anyhting that runs on AC."  [Posted By: suchristo01 on 05/26/11 06:44am]

My own knowledge in this DC power area is a little limited... with a power supply providing what's needed for a motor/lights/radios/etc. I just make sure that the supplied voltage is within the load's range of operation, the supplied current meets or exceeds that demanded. Usually an oversupply of amps work like, "Here I am, if you should ever want/need me".  8)

So here in the process of recharging (with multistage 'smart' chargers), we have various brands of charger/power supplies going through various charge states [bulk, float, absorption] delivering different volt ratings for differing prearranged? sets of time (prearranged time frames, or periodically testing to make the needed volt/charge adjustments accordingly?) Adjustments are made depending upon the batteries needs. Maybe one brand's process (volts supplied on each stage, length of time periods) favors the cheap wet deep cell batteries better than another.  :-\

Most go for a higher rated charger so that if/when they dry camp/boondock, they don't have to run the generator as long to get a good charge (to the 'DC battery' side of things... saving the time, gas, and the generator). But if more amps makes a charger do its job faster (faster usu. doesn't come w/o a cost ;)), what does that in turn, do for the battery? Boil it a little faster? :eek: Shorten its life a little sooner? :(
 
Here's more information than you probably want:

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_the_lead_acid_battery

 
[quoting Lou Snieder, 2008 post]
    "Going to a larger sized converter will not change your charging rate ???.  The output voltage determines how many amps are provided to your batteries. ???  If you're getting a 30 amp charging rate from a 45 amp converter, you'll get the same rate from a 60 amp because the output voltages are the same 8).  The only way your charging rate will change is if it's being limited by the current capacity of the converter???.

Keep in mind your converter has to power all of your 12 volt loads in addition to charging your batteries :)).  How many light bulbs does your rig have?  Each bulb pulls about 2 amps.  Your furnace pulls about 10 amps.  Running the furnace and a half a dozen light bulbs will consume the majority of power available from a 40 amp converter.  Add a couple of discharged batteries and the converter will be running flat out to satisfy the demand.  :(

I don't see any benefit in going to a smaller converter that would have to work harder to do all of this.":))


  So the available current...if meeting or exceeding total demands... has absolutely nothing to do with battery charge rates, frequency of charge states, battery longevity, boil-over preventions... it's all exclusively in the voltage? in which case here we've pretty much decided upon and maintained some conventional protocols (12 volts, +/-), at least for the time being ;D

Between this post, and the site recommended by kdbgoat (very informative), lemmie see if my knowledge has grown a little:

1- The lead acid wet cell has a volt range that it charges within... when the charger goes with higher volts, it'll invariably accept higher current  (i.e., 'bulk' phase, speeding things up for a while)
2- 'smart' chargers constantly/periodically/occasionally sense changes (in battery voltage?), and respond in kind with a change in its own volts supplied to the batts.
3- the batts then only accept what current that they can get  relative to the volts that the 'smart' charger decidedly adjusts for
4- it's finally all stored as power in the batteries, P=I X E (except for the rest that you use in the RV direct from charger/converter)
 
The charger portion of the converter/charger regulates the volts applied to the battery and the smarter ones also limit the max amps, this managing the charging process.  The amperage rating for the converter merely defines the maximum available for use, not what actually goes to the battery at any instant.  Furthermore, those max converter amps are shared between the charging function and any other DC consumption, e.g. lights, water pump, etc.  A larger converter allows the charger to run at optimum levels and still have plenty of amps left to power other things.  A too-small rated converter might run short of amps if a lot of things are drawing power at the same time battery charging is active.  However, once you have enough amps to meet the demands, having extra amps available buys you nothing at all.

Higher-end devices can specify a share to be applied charging vs other functions, but that is usually found only in the more sophisticated inverter/converter/charger devices
 
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