SmartWeigh Results

I was able to get my truck and trailer weighed at an Escapees SmartWeigh location recently.  Weights are with full gas tank, full propane tanks, full fresh water tank and empty black & grey tanks.

My truck ratings are:
GVWR ? 10,000
GCWR ? 19,200
GAWR Front ? 4,800
GAWR Rear ? 6100
Payload Capacity ? 2,685

Trailer:
GVWR ? 7,000
GAWR ? 3,500 (each axle)

Weighing Results:
Truck:
GVW ? 9,040 (with trailer)
GVW ? 8,440 (without trailer)
GCW ? 14,940
GAW Front ? 4,050
GAW Rear ? 4,990
Payload ? 1,125 (I calculated this by subtracting 2,685 from 10,000 = truck weight of 7,315. Truck total weight (8,440) less 7,315 = 1125.  I think this is valid, but correct me if not.)

Trailer:
GVW ? 5,900
GAW Front ? 2,540
GAW Rear ? 2,760
Calculated tongue weight: 
9,040 minus 8,440 = 600

I was very pleased with the results showing all the weights are well below the maximums.  The tongue weight is a little low at 10%.  I am adding 2 Lifeline AGM batteries to the tongue (66 lbs each) and a new rack to hold the total of 4 batteries.  So this will add maybe 225 lbs. Not sure what the metal used in the rack will weigh.  If the 225 lbs all goes to tongue weight, this would bring up to 14%.

Now that I know my actual weights, it brings up the question of whether I needed a F250 or could have gotten by with a F150.
I believe I could have found an F150 that would handle these weights, considering the truck itself would weigh less.  Also my payload is actually a lot less than I imagined it would be.  I don?t expect much change in that weight over time.  I think I would be right at the limits with an F150 though?  I would like the fact it would be much smaller and would get better gas mileage. 

This F250 is a beast!  It?s very difficult to park in cities/towns.  Also, I?m not sure what is going on with my gas mileage.  The first month or so I was getting 14 ? 16 not towing and 11 towing.  Then the mileage dropped to 9 mpg towing or not.  I changed the air filter and that brought my not towing mpg back to where it was.  But towing I?m now getting 8 or 9 mpg.  The only other thing I know to try is new spark plugs.  A friend also suggested getting a aftermarket chip.

Any thoughts or suggestions on what I might try to get better mileage while towing?  My trailer tires are rated for 65 mph.  So I don?t drive over about 62 mph.

Oh, another thing I wanted to mention.  The first time the truck was weighed the front axle weight was 4290 without trailer and 3850 with trailer.  So the hitch wasn?t transferring weight to the front axle.  The guy doing the weighing had me adjust the hitch.  I have an Equalizer E2.  There are six holes on the bracket.  The bolts were in the middle 2 holes.  He said to drop to the bottom 2 holes.  Then re-weighed and got the new axles weights which are above.  About 200 lbs moved to the front.  Does this seem correct?

VERY GOOD NUMBERS!!

One minor correction on the Payload.  By definition, Payload = GVWR  -  Actual truck wt with full fuel tank, no passengers or cargo. 
For your situation, I would use my modified payload of GVWR  -  scale weight.  In your case, 10,000  - 8440  = 1560.  Your REMAINING payload is 1560, but this weight already INCLUDES everything that was in the truck when it was weighed, including you and the hitch.

You may find a F150 that could handle the weight, but it will be nearly as big as your current truck.  You will probably find it does not handle the camper as well as the F250.  You are right, the truck is a big beast!

I would guess the decrease in MPG, would be related to the 'Winter Blend' of the gasoline.  I drop a few MPG in the winter always

I believe I could have found an F150 that would handle these weights, considering the truck itself would weigh less.  Also my payload is actually a lot less than I imagined it would be.  I don?t expect much change in that weight over time.  I think I would be right at the limits with an F150 though?  I would like the fact it would be much smaller and would get better gas mileage. 

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There is a lot more to towing than just weights. A 250 is much safer in a cross wind, when a semi passes you by and when braking. A larger truck also makes it possible to upgrade the trailer without upgrading the truck. If you are right at the numbers then if you want to upgrade it becomes twice as expensive. When you load a truck up so it is really close to the numbers you are not doing your truck any favors. It will wear out a lot quicker. Being right at the limit is just plain dumb.

Gordon, THANKS!  The good numbers are the result of all the great advice and knowledge presented on this forum. Unfortunately, I didn?t weigh the truck when it was empty so this round about way is all I can do.Your point is taken on the payload. In addition to me and the hitch, there is also the topper. ?

Spencerpj, I wasn?t aware of the difference in the mileage with the winter blend. Maybe I?ll see an increase in spring, Although the drop in mileage started in August. So something else may be going on

SeilerBird, yes I agree with everything you say which is the reason I purchased a 250. When a semi goes by the trailer doesn?t move. The highest winds I?ve been in so far are about 20 mph. Also no effect on the trailer.  I love the way the truck tows. I just don?t like driving it when not towing. But that?s just part of the deal. It?s bought and paid for, so I?m not likely to change now.

Also I love my trailer so far. The only thing I don?t like about it is it?s too big!  If I were to upgrade it would be to get something smaller, which isn?t what is generally meant by upgrading ?. But I?m not anticipating any change in trailer either. But one never knows what lies down the road.

One minor correction on the Payload.  By definition, Payload = GVWR  -  Actual truck wt with full fuel tank, no passengers or cargo. 

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Grashley, I think you're confused. You've basically described empty weight, except for the fuel. From our Glossary above:

Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR):
GVWR is the maximum allowable weight of the vehicle. The GVWR is equal to or greater than the sum of the UVW (see listing) and the NCC (see listing) and consists of all of its contents including, but not limited to, all fluids (gasoline or diesel fuel, engine oil, LPG (Propane), water, holding tanks, etc.); all foods; all clothing, bedding, towels, etc.; all tools and spare parts, all toys (adult and children's) and all passengers (154 Lbs each) and pets.

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From the Merriam-Webster dictionary:

Definition of payload
1 : the load carried by a vehicle exclusive of what is necessary for its operation; especially : the load carried by an aircraft or spacecraft consisting of things (such as passengers or instruments) necessary to the purpose of the flight
2 : the weight of a payload

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The term originated as being the load paid for, not the transport vehicle itself.

Debra17 said:

Now that I know my actual weights, it brings up the question of whether I needed a F250 or could have gotten by with a F150.
I believe I could have found an F150 that would handle these weights, considering the truck itself would weigh less.  Also my payload is actually a lot less than I imagined it would be.  I don?t expect much change in that weight over time.  I think I would be right at the limits with an F150 though?  I would like the fact it would be much smaller and would get better gas mileage. 

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Look at the F150 and F250 specs side by side - there isn't much difference in the dimensions between similarly equipped trucks.

What's making your truck ungainly is the crew cab.  Go to the extended cab version (shorter rear seat) and you'll cut the wheelbase and overall length by almost a foot.  Go to a single cab (no rear seat) and you'll shorten it another 6 inches.

I had a 1994 F250 extended cab pickup (short rear seat) and it was OK around town.  After it was totalled in an accident I replaced it with a 1999 F350 crew cab (6.5 ft bed) and there's a definite difference in parking lot maneuverability.

One trick I've seen people do around here (NV) is to back into a parking space or pull through two so you're facing nose out.  I've started doing the same, and once you're used to backing the truck it's easier to plant the rear wheels in a spot then jockey the nose to get in straight, versus pulling in forward which makes the truck wind up at an angle.

If you're thinking about a smaller rig, take a look at http://blog.vagabonders-supreme.net/.  George fulltimed for 10 years in a Tioga Class C, now he's in a 13 ft. Scamp trailer pulled by a 2012 Ford Transit Connect minivan.

When we were fulltimers our truck was a Dodge 2500 single cab. Since it was just the wife and me it was fine. Plenty of room. And my wife, who likes little cars, had no problem driving it. Speaking of downsizing, when we fulltimed we had a 37', triple axle, triple slide 5th wheel. We now have a 17' TT that we pull with a Nissan Frontier crew cab. If it were just me I think I could fulltime in this TT.

Now that I know my actual weights, it brings up the question of whether I needed a F250 or could have gotten by with a F150.

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There is no doubt there are F150's that can handle that trailer. Quite a few of them, in fact. The F250 is superior at towing, but the difference for that size trailer is probably marginal (my opinion - I know others always want "more truck").

This F250 is a beast!  It?s very difficult to park in cities/towns.  Also, I?m not sure what is going on with my gas mileage.  The first month or so I was getting 14 ? 16 not towing and 11 towing.  Then the mileage dropped to 9 mpg towing or not.  I changed the air filter and that brought my not towing mpg back to where it was.  But towing I?m now getting 8 or 9 mpg.  The only other thing I know to try is new spark plugs.

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Just being an F250 didn't make it larger, though it is somewhat heavier. If you selected a large cab, long bed, etc. the truck of course got bigger, but not really any larger than an F150 equipped the same way. The F250 frame is beefier, though, so heavier.  You can get smaller & lighter F150's, of course, but you would have to get down to some specific F150 vs your current F250 to see if there would be any meaningful difference in size and maneuverability. The F150 that can handle that trailer and has the same cab and truck bed as you now have may not be much different.

Your mpg numbers sound like a large gas engine in that F250. Is it the V10 or V8?  Changing spark plugs in a new-ish truck is a waste of time unless something is seriously wrong. The original plugs are good for 100k miles if the engine is working right.

The truck has the 6.2 V8 gas engine.  The owners manual says if towing and/or driving on dusty roads the plugs should be changed at 50k.  So that's the reason I considered doing that.  Honestly I don't think that is the issue.  I have 45k miles now.  Another thought I had is the computer isn't adjusting correctly for the elevation changes.  The first month I was towing the trailer I was in the Colorado mountains driving over mountain passes.  That's when I was getting 11 mpg while towing.  Then I headed to California and at the lower elevation is when the mileage started dropping.  That may just be coincidence, I don't know.  It was still under warranty then so I should have gone to a dealer and had it checked out.  It's a mystery to me, but I would sure like to get back up to 11 mpg.

I'm not planning to replace either the truck or trailer.  They are both paid for and it wouldn't make sense financially to change.  I do get envious though when I see someone pulling a Casita with an SUV and they can park in small spaces and pull over in the roadside stops.  With overall length of 42' it's limiting on where I can stop.  The idea of a smaller trailer sounds good, but when I look at my Nash there really isn't any space that I would want to give up at this point.  I love all the kitchen counter space and the amount of cabinets.  And the dry bath. 

The first month I was towing the trailer I was in the Colorado mountains driving over mountain passes.  That's when I was getting 11 mpg while towing.

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The high altitude of the Colorado mountains has thinner air than lower altitudes, thus there is less drag from air friction (substantial at higher speeds), so that probably is a factor, though it may not be the whole answer. Another factor may be that the engine will develop more power (== more fuel) at lower altitudes, too, if you were using all that extra power. At 7,000 feet a normally aspirated (not turbo charged) engine will lose 25%, or so, of its power, depending on the exact design.

Of course terrain can be a factor, too, and steeper uphill means more fuel used, with the downhill side not regaining all that was lost going uphill.

Debra17 said:

Then I headed to California and at the lower elevation is when the mileage started dropping.  That may just be coincidence, I don't know.  It was still under warranty then so I should have gone to a dealer and had it checked out.  It's a mystery to me, but I would sure like to get back up to 11 mpg.

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It used to be you could drive across the country and get basically the same gasoline, with minor adjustments for elevation.  No longer.

Gasoline is now a patchwork of blends tailored for the needs of each region, as determined by local or regional smog control needs.

http://www.api.org/oil-and-natural-gas/wells-to-consumer/fuels-and-refining/gasoline/us-gasoline-requirements

California gas is the worst.  They started requiring their own "reformulated" gas in 1991 and since then all of the gas sold in the state has been different than gasoline sold elsewhere in the country.  It's all refined in-state, so whenever a refinery has a problem prices spike because they can't import gasoline from elsewhere to ease the shortfall.

Every time I drove my car from WA to CA my mileage would drop 10-15% as soon as I filled up in CA.  Going the other way, the mileage went back up as soon as I got the CA gas out of my tank.

...And we have to pay more for that rotgut (a lot more) than in just about every other part of the country.

Kev

Larry, I stand by my statement.  You are correct in your comments on the derivation of the word, but the way it is used with reference to cars and trucks IS quite specific.

Quoted from my 2013 F350 Owner Manual, Page 243
GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) ? is the maximum allowable weight of the fully loaded vehicle (including all options, equipment, passengers and cargo).

Page 241
Vehicle Curb Weight ? is the weight of your new vehicle when you picked it up from your authorized dealer plus any aftermarket equipment.
Payload ? is the combined weight of cargo and passengers that the vehicle is carrying.

Simple algebra.  If GVWR = weight of (truck, including all options, equipment, (aka Vehicle Curb Weight)) + (passengers and cargo)
                          Payload = weight of (passengers and cargo)
                THEN    Payload = GVWR - Vehicle Curb Weight.

My modified payload of    GVWR - partially loaded truck      will yield REMAINING payload.  The cargo and passengers in the truck are already accounted for.

Gordon,

I saw "By definition, Payload = GVWR" and wondered how you could say that, but now that I've gone back over your post several times I finally spotted that you had "Payload = GVWR  -  Actual truck wt with full fuel tank," as a single equation. So I misread your minus sign as a clause separator, rather than as part of an equation. Sorry. I stand corrected -- apologies for the misread.

Understood and accepted.  There is no good MINUS sign on our keyboards.  I will try to spell it out to make it more clear.

the horrible stuff they sell as 'gasoline' in California has to do with the drop in mpg.