Please help re: 5th wheel leaker

Hello fellow RV'ers!

I'm hoping someone knowledgeable may be able to help answers some of my questions, I know nothing about RV's and I'm a little embarrassed about our recent purchase :-[ sorry its long

A little history:

I recently purchased a 1991 diplomat 5th wheel for $3900 (Canada). We bought it to start a little farm and live in for 6 months. Our biggest concern was that it didn't leak since we would be living in it with our 5 month old son and we needed a dry place to live in while we farmed. We expressed this to the people we bought from over email several times and asked about leaks many times to be sure. We were told this one was in excellent condition, had no leaks and was well cared for and followed a regular maintenance schedule. The people who owned it seemed so nice; we believed what they said and bought it at the price they were asking. We didn't get an inspection. It was so clean inside and looked really nice, We were really excited.

About 2 weeks after our purchase, there was a huge wind and rain storm and the RV leaked. Not a minor leak, It leaked really bad; under the bed was wet, under all the windows were leaking, the ceiling leaked a brown liquid from the seams near the doorway onto the floor. We were shocked.
We hoped it was an unusual bad storm however as the rain continued, the RV continued to leak and the ceiling began to sag, brown liquid continued to ooze from the seams. We couldn't sleep in it.

We decided to get an inspection to see exactly what we were dealing with. We discovered the RV to be a big leaker, it was 87% soaking wet in the walls, ceiling and had rotten wood throughout and toxic mold. Quite different from what the previous owners told us! It was basically a junker. We notified the previous owners after about 2 months and explained the situation and showed them the report. They basically said too bad, you should have got an inspection on viewing. (In Canada, buyer beware isn't really a "hand off, not my problem" reasonable response anymore especially if the other party was "mislead" in the sale.

Long story short, we are in court over it.  We have found out some info along the way...

My questions!

They say the RV was "regularly maintained" and "well cared for". They bought it July 1 2015 for $2500 and put it up for sale November 2015 for $5000. We bought it Feb 21 2016 for $3900 (the price we saw online). We have discovered they resealed the RV several times during ownership. Once when they first bought it, Once on January 26th and again right before we purchased it on Feb 21st.

Questions!
1. Is it normal practice to reseal 3 times (or more) in 6 months? Or is this likely because the RV leaked?
2. If it was resealed so many times by the owner, why does it still leak really bad?
3. Would any reasonable RV owner reseal this much if there were no issues or no leaks?.
4. How long does it take for someone to look over an entire RV and reseal it? (5th wheel)
5. Would a reasonable RV owner who is selling their RV, reseal the unit right before someone was coming to view it and not say anything to the potential buyer? Or does this seem weird? (they say it was because they are so nice and helpful)
6. They claim it had no leaks when they owned it and it must have just started to leak when we got it because "we didn't care for it properly" (within 2 weeks?!) Does this seem crazy to you or just me?
7. Our inspector stated the RV "has a systemic issue of water intrusion and likely has been leaking for a long time". Would the previous owners (being RV people) know this? Would it be obvious to someone who knows their RV's that its a leaker?
8. They did a really good job cleaning the RV, it looked great. How did they hide the leaks so well? Now all the seams are broken and has revealed the rotting in the walls
9. DO you think its strange that we never really saw any of this upon viewing? We did see a water stain on the couch and asked about it and they said it had a small leak by the window that was remediated and no longer leaked. We believed them because its an older RV and it would be normal that it had a leak at some point, we just wanted one that didn't leak currently!
10. The owner also owns his own business (35 years) in window and sky light installation, vinyl and aluminum siding installation and does window coverings. He also has owned several RV's and currently owns a nice new one. Would it be fair to say these are all materials that an RV is made of?
11. In your opinion, do you think he is knowledgeable about RV's and would know if it was leaking based on his business and likely could hide the leaks with his abilities and knowledge? 


I'm sorry if some of these questions are stupid, I really don't know anything about RV's and could use some help lol.

Thank you so much for your time. I hope these answers will help me with my closing statement coming up at the end of the month!

I don't think you stand a chance in court. There is no real law against lying. You really did a dumb thing by buying such a complicated piece of equipment without getting an inspection first. You should have been here before buying it, not after. The RV is almost 30 years old. RV roofs need to be inspected every year and patched if necessary and completely recoated every five years. When buying an RV you need to know every one for sale is claimed to be in perfect condition and maintained properly. But none of them in that price range have been treated that way or they would be selling for many times that price. You got screwed by your own ignorance and you are compounding the problem by fighting a fight you cannot win. I suggest paying the junk man to haul it off and go buy something else. You are setting yourself up for a lot more heartache.

SeilerBird said:

I don't think you stand a chance in court. There is no real law against lying. You really did a dumb thing by buying such a complicated piece of equipment without getting an inspection first. You should have been here before buying it, not after. The RV is almost 30 years old. RV roofs need to be inspected every year and patched if necessary and completely recoated every five years. When buying an RV you need to know every one for sale is claimed to be in perfect condition and maintained properly. But none of them in that price range have been treated that way or they would be selling for many times that price. You got screwed by your own ignorance and you are compounding the problem by fighting a fight you cannot win. I suggest paying the junk man to haul it off and go buy something else. You are setting yourself up for a lot more heartache.

Click to expand...

First, welcome to the forum.
The OP is from Canada so the court rules could be different than here in the US.

That's true. If the OP still has the emails from the seller confirming that the RV never leaked, and the report shows mold and water damage, there may be a case for fraud.  You would have to ask the DA (or Canadian equivalent) if he has a case.

Rene T said:

First, welcome to the forum.
The OP is from Canada so the court rules could be different than here in the US.

Click to expand...

Quote from the OP:
"(In Canada, buyer beware isn't really a "hand off, not my problem" reasonable response anymore especially if the other party was "mislead" in the sale.)"

Misrepresentation in any sale contract is always subject to litigation. We are talking civil law moreso than criminal action. The courts will decide whether the seller intentionally misrepresented or was merely unknowing. Private sellers are seldom held to the same knowledge standards as dealers, who are presumed to have professional-grade knowledge of the products they sell.

As for Newbie123's question about frequency of sealing attempts, leaks can be difficult to find. So yes, three attempts means it continued to leak, but no, three tries is not all that unusual for success if the problem is a difficult one.  A more skilled repair tech would probably get it in one or two, though.

Thanks for your responses. To Seller Bird, after making a court claim, the seller provided an ad we had never seen before to our settlement conference. After much digging and subpeona's, I discovered that the seller falsified the Ad; changing pertinent information about the RV's condition. Originally the Ad  stated "in excellent" condition and the doctored ad they brought to court removed the words "excellent condition" and replaced it with "no known issues, sold As-is". So to me, they were completely aware that the RV was a leaker and mislead us to believe it was not, taking advantage of the fact we had no experience with RV's. Not to mention bringing false evidence to court is a criminal offence.
Had they not done this, I agree with you, it would have been very difficult to prove they knew about the leaking but this is pretty obvious they are trying to hide something. Plus they are lying profusely on the stand. So we are going all the way with this and I'm hoping for the best but preparing for the worst.

I still would like to know more opinions on the sealing of windows, roof more than 3 times in 8 months-is this clear it was a leaker or is this really "preventative maintenance" and any help answering my other questions! Thank you

Good for you. Make them also pay all court costs if you win. Do you have a copy of the original ad where it said excellent condition?

Multiple attempts to seal in less than a year clearly indicates to me that there was knowledge of a leak. 

Preventative maintenance is once a year roof seam inspection and touch up caulk as needed. Windows would be the same or less.

So, once is maybe PM, but multiple times is fixing a problem.

Yes I do have copies of the original ad that says excellent condition. I have 3 ads that say excellent and then the one they doctored that says "as-is".

They keep saying that all their attempts at re-sealing were "preventative maintenance" but it seems a little excessive to do that so many times in less than a year.
Plus, the whole family has RV's or camper trailers and the previous owner also has a larger, much nicer and newer RV so I assume they have reasonable knowledge of RV maintenance and how to check and/or fix leaks.
PLUS the previous owner is a window and aluminum siding installer so he would probably know how to fix and replace (and hide) potential leaks on and RV, don't ya think?

I really appreciate your professional opinions, thanks!