Generator not charging house batts, complicated

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kismoore

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Mar 31, 2015
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Generator running fine. (When it revs too high, it trips the power converter. I turned it down and now it's running fine)
All appliances working well. Outlets work well. Electric refrigerator, washer/dryer, ice maker.
Generator not charging house batts.
Running engine DOES charge house batts (weirdness, only seams to charge house batts when sitting still, NOT while driving).
Probably unrelated but furnaces suddenly blowing cold air. First the front now the back.
Today Noticed the clothes dryer didn't get warm enough to dry clothes, spun for 120 minutes, still kind of wet.
2 days ago dryer was hot. 3 days ago heater in rear blew hot, 6 days ago heater in front was blowing hot.
All cold now.

RV Dinosaur-old yes, but NEW to me.
1990 Bounder Ford 460 fuel injected v8 oshkosh tag-axle 40' (40z)

 
There?s an awful lot going on there and I don?t have any immediate ideas, but wanted to welcome you to the forum and mention that my previous coach was a ?94 40Z Ford Oshkosh. Put a lot of miles on it and had some good times. Loved the side aisle floor plan.


One thing, sometimes when multiple issues start occurring it can seem as if they?re related when in fact they?re not. Example, since the furnaces run off of 12V, lack of heat has nothing to do with the genset. Likewise the dryer (you have a combo Splendide, correct?). If the receptacle that the washer/dryer is plugged in to has good voltage then it?s unrelated to the genset.  Coincidental as these things may seem I?d try to separate the issues and work on them one at a time.
 
Both heaters blowing cold.  I'd look to make sure the propane tank has something in it and is turned on.  I run those small external tanks while I'm parked and that's usually the sign that I have to go outside at 3am and change a tank.  BTW, I've noticed that if it's really cold outside(10-20F)the last gallon or so in those external tanks won't have enough pressure to run both furnaces at once.

Generator not charging batteries.  I'd find the converter and make sure it's getting power from the generator(or from shore power for that matter).

Dryer not drying.  That's exactly how mine died.  I haven't fixed it yet because we just set up a clothesline and started hanging our clothes.  We actually like it better except for things like towels and underwear.  If you do get it fixed, post what you did so I can look into mine sometime.
 
The generator does not charge any batteries. What it does is provide 120v power to the house charging system, the same one that works off shore 120v power. If the batteries are not charging, you need to look at the house converter/charger  to see if it has input power (120v) and is producing output DC power (13.3v-14.4v) for charging.

The engine alternator provides charging power whenever the engine is running. There is a relay that closes to connect the house batteries to the chassis 12v system. If that relay closes, you should see charging. However, there has to be enough engine rpms to produce a reasonable amount of amps, and there has to be some amps left over after the chassis system consumes what it needs. Driving with the headlights on, for example, might be sucking much of the available alternator amps.  Also, if the alternators internal diodes are bad, the alternator will only produce a few amps, even though the voltage is fine. You might have the alternator bench-tested for power output.

It sounds as though your furnaces are not lighting. You have fan but no burner. To get started, see my article in the RVForum Library on Furnace Troubleshooting: http://www.rvforum.net/miscfiles/Furnace_Trouble-2.pdf
 
kismoore said:
1) Generator running fine. (When it revs too high, it trips the power converter. I turned it down and now it's running fine)
2) Generator not charging house batts.
3) Running engine DOES charge house batts (weirdness, only seams to charge house batts when sitting still, NOT while driving).
4) Probably unrelated but furnaces suddenly blowing cold air. First the front now the back.
5) Today Noticed the clothes dryer didn't get warm enough to dry clothes, spun for 120 minutes, still kind of wet.
6) 3 days ago heater in rear blew hot, 6 days ago heater in front was blowing hot. All cold now.
Click to expand...

Having another look at your post I thought I'd add a few thoughts. I've numbered your issues for reference

1) When you say it revs too high, how did you determine this, voltage I assume? What is the voltage at the outlets with the genset running and the coach not plugged in to shore power?
2) With the genset running and NOT plugged in to shore power, what is the voltage at the house batteries? With the genset NOT running and shore power plugged in, again what is the voltage at the house batteries?
3) How did you determine that the batteries were and were not charging?
4) Agree with Old Crow, check the propane. Can you run all stove burners together with the oven? Does the fridge run OK on propane? What is the outside temp? (Wondering about the propane regulator)
5) Again agree with Old_Crow, assuming the voltage at the washer/dry outlet is good, this issue has to be internal to the dryer. Although, you mention you are new to this rig and I presume you may be new to the combo washer/dryers. They can take a long time to dry, although 120 minutes is indeed very long. If you jammed the drum completely full with towels/jeans other heavy items that were wet, it could take a very long time to dry. As a test I would run a quick wash/dry cycle with a single towel. Using the normal dryer temp ("low temp" not selected), set the dry time to 40 minutes. The towel should be dry by the end of the cycle and when you check it at about 20 minutes should be quite warm.
6) As Old_Crow mentions, this again sounds like dwindling propane. The furnaces are the biggest users, and with two of them attempting to run there may well be insufficient propane pressure from a low tank. If the tank is full, the next thing to check is the regulator.
 
As batteries run down the blower on teh furnace slows and when it slows enough the sail switch will not sail far enough to close and ignition will not happen.  Safety feature.

Most generators have two circuit breakers... Both SET?

The Generator does not charge the batteries.. It powers the converter (or the charger stage of an INVERTER)  In a 30 amp RV the 2nd breaker is usually an air conditioner.. not applicable to this discussion. On a 50 each breaker powers about 1/2 of your RV.. Are all other systems (120 volt) working, (50 amp both Air Conditioners will blow in FAN mode .. Just fan no need to hang meat)

If not .. Generator breaker or Auto Transfer Switch or bad connetion (Many RVers have a few screws loose. not a joke Im talking about the screws in the electrical panels)

Next is the circuit breaker that feeds the converter

Last Weekend before Halloween my Converter Died.. Thankfully on Monday  I was scheduled ot head SOUTH. So I spent the night at the T/A in Tekonsha (Formerly the Tekon Truck Stop, the first Full Service Truck Plaza). Halloween AM I popped up to Marshall (About 15 miles) and got a new Factory Refurb.. Direct.. From the Factory,, ,which is in Marshall.. Cornor of old US-27 and Industerial.

Suddenly the batteries charged nicely/
 
kismoore said:
Generator running fine. (When it revs too high, it trips the power converter. I turned it down and now it's running fine)
All appliances working well. Outlets work well. Electric refrigerator, washer/dryer, ice maker.
Generator not charging house batts.

...

RV Dinosaur-old yes, but NEW to me.
1990 Bounder Ford 460 fuel injected v8 oshkosh tag-axle 40' (40z)
Click to expand...

Some RV converters of that vintage used a ferroresonant transformer.  This is a transformer that puts out a constant voltage in spite of varying input voltages ... a good thing for a converter.

The downside of ferroresonant transformers is they're frequency sensitive. They only put out the right voltage if the frequency of the incoming AC voltage is exactly 60 Hz.

If the generator is going faster than 60 Hz the transformer's output voltage rises - which supports your statement that the converter overloads if the generator is going too fast.

If the generator is going slower than 60 Hz the transformer's output voltage drops, probably low enough that it can't charge the batteries.

A quick and easy way to check the generator is to spend $20 or so for a Kill-A-Watt meter.  Among other functions it measures the voltage and frequency of the AC power source it's plugged into.  Plug it into a generator powered outlet and it will tell you if the generator is running at the correct speed and putting out the right voltage.
 
Lou Schneider said:
Some RV converters of that vintage used a ferroresonant transformer.  This is a transformer that puts out a constant voltage in spite of varying input voltages ... a good thing for a converter.

The downside of ferroresonant transformers is they're frequency sensitive. They only put out the right voltage if the frequency of the incoming AC voltage is exactly 60 Hz.

If the generator is going faster than 60 Hz the transformer's output voltage rises - which supports your statement that the converter overloads if the generator is going too fast.

If the generator is going slower than 60 Hz the transformer's output voltage drops, probably low enough that it can't charge the batteries.

A quick and easy way to check the generator is to spend $20 or so for a Kill-A-Watt meter.  Among other functions it measures the voltage and frequency of the AC power source it's plugged into.  Plug it into a generator powered outlet and it will tell you if the generator is running at the correct speed and putting out the right voltage.
Click to expand...

Thank you. This sounds exactly like what I'm dealing with.
We will get a Kill-A-Watt meter as soon as we can.
 
Generators often run between 57 and 63 Hz depending on the amp load, while utility power is mostly dead-on 60 Hz.

For the reason Lou described, your genset is supposed to run at a constant RPM, regardless of load. The engine throttle is supposed to open or close as needed to maintain that constant RPM (typically 3600 for a gas genset).  [Inverter type gensets are an exception to that, but your older Bounder doesn't have one of those].
 
Old_Crow said:
Both heaters blowing cold.  I'd look to make sure the propane tank has something in it and is turned on.  I run those small external tanks while I'm parked and that's usually the sign that I have to go outside at 3am and change a tank.  BTW, I've noticed that if it's really cold outside(10-20F)the last gallon or so in those external tanks won't have enough pressure to run both furnaces at once.

Generator not charging batteries.  I'd find the converter and make sure it's getting power from the generator(or from shore power for that matter).

Dryer not drying.  That's exactly how mine died.  I haven't fixed it yet because we just set up a clothesline and started hanging our clothes.  We actually like it better except for things like towels and underwear.  If you do get it fixed, post what you did so I can look into mine sometime.
Click to expand...

will do and i would love to dry my clothes hanging from a clothes line so fresh! i wonder if highway patrol would be ok with that.. lol
they sure would dry fast!
 
Old_Crow said:
Both heaters blowing cold.  I'd look to make sure the propane tank has something in it and is turned on.  I run those small external tanks while I'm parked and that's usually the sign that I have to go outside at 3am and change a tank.  BTW, I've noticed that if it's really cold outside(10-20F)the last gallon or so in those external tanks won't have enough pressure to run both furnaces at once.

Generator not charging batteries.  I'd find the converter and make sure it's getting power from the generator(or from shore power for that matter).

Dryer not drying.  That's exactly how mine died.  I haven't fixed it yet because we just set up a clothesline and started hanging our clothes.  We actually like it better except for things like towels and underwear.  If you do get it fixed, post what you did so I can look into mine sometime.
Click to expand...

sorry, i meant to add that propane all a-ok
 
Gary RV_Wizard said:
The generator does not charge any batteries. What it does is provide 120v power to the house charging system, the same one that works off shore 120v power. If the batteries are not charging, you need to look at the house converter/charger  to see if it has input power (120v) and is producing output DC power (13.3v-14.4v) for charging.

The engine alternator provides charging power whenever the engine is running. There is a relay that closes to connect the house batteries to the chassis 12v system. If that relay closes, you should see charging. However, there has to be enough engine rpms to produce a reasonable amount of amps, and there has to be some amps left over after the chassis system consumes what it needs. Driving with the headlights on, for example, might be sucking much of the available alternator amps.  Also, if the alternators internal diodes are bad, the alternator will only produce a few amps, even though the voltage is fine. You might have the alternator bench-tested for power output.

It sounds as though your furnaces are not lighting. You have fan but no burner. To get started, see my article in the RVForum Library on Furnace Troubleshooting: http://www.rvforum.net/miscfiles/Furnace_Trouble-2.pdf
Click to expand...

first:
im confused.
my older pace arrows gene charged the batts..?
even the starter batt IF i was stupid enough to let it die.
maybe the system is different with my "new" rv. i will have to check it. thank you

second:
awesome! thank you. you said relay. i understand that word :)
i will test them.
alternator tested very recently when we replaced belt.

third:
thank you for the heater link. i watched it but im a little brain damaged so will have to go over it again..and again a little later. it seamed fairly straight forward so far. when im more focused and im starting to get cold again...
summer is coming.
and we have a recent BIGGER problem.
will look into it after we get the axle fixed.


 
Sun2Retire said:
Having another look at your post I thought I'd add a few thoughts. I've numbered your issues for reference

1) When you say it revs too high, how did you determine this, voltage I assume? What is the voltage at the outlets with the genset running and the coach not plugged in to shore power?
2) With the genset running and NOT plugged in to shore power, what is the voltage at the house batteries? With the genset NOT running and shore power plugged in, again what is the voltage at the house batteries?
3) How did you determine that the batteries were and were not charging?
4) Agree with Old Crow, check the propane. Can you run all stove burners together with the oven? Does the fridge run OK on propane? What is the outside temp? (Wondering about the propane regulator)
5) Again agree with Old_Crow, assuming the voltage at the washer/dry outlet is good, this issue has to be internal to the dryer. Although, you mention you are new to this rig and I presume you may be new to the combo washer/dryers. They can take a long time to dry, although 120 minutes is indeed very long. If you jammed the drum completely full with towels/jeans other heavy items that were wet, it could take a very long time to dry. As a test I would run a quick wash/dry cycle with a single towel. Using the normal dryer temp ("low temp" not selected), set the dry time to 40 minutes. The towel should be dry by the end of the cycle and when you check it at about 20 minutes should be quite warm.
6) As Old_Crow mentions, this again sounds like dwindling propane. The furnaces are the biggest users, and with two of them attempting to run there may well be insufficient propane pressure from a low tank. If the tank is full, the next thing to check is the regulator.

im gonna print this out and answer everything as soon as i can. will be a little while.
california rv repair on axle is going to cost $6000... im a little in shock right now.
your info is super helpful. i have a little brain damage so ive realized that your questions are totally worth printing out and attacking one by one. i knew the answers at some point but unless i write them down.. a little bird just flies away with the info and i have to start all over.

printing..now.
Click to expand...
 
John From Detroit said:
As batteries run down the blower on teh furnace slows and when it slows enough the sail switch will not sail far enough to close and ignition will not happen.  Safety feature.

Most generators have two circuit breakers... Both SET?

The Generator does not charge the batteries.. It powers the converter (or the charger stage of an INVERTER)  In a 30 amp RV the 2nd breaker is usually an air conditioner.. not applicable to this discussion. On a 50 each breaker powers about 1/2 of your RV.. Are all other systems (120 volt) working, (50 amp both Air Conditioners will blow in FAN mode .. Just fan no need to hang meat)

If not .. Generator breaker or Auto Transfer Switch or bad connetion (Many RVers have a few screws loose. not a joke Im talking about the screws in the electrical panels)

Next is the circuit breaker that feeds the converter

Last Weekend before Halloween my Converter Died.. Thankfully on Monday  I was scheduled ot head SOUTH. So I spent the night at the T/A in Tekonsha (Formerly the Tekon Truck Stop, the first Full Service Truck Plaza). Halloween AM I popped up to Marshall (About 15 miles) and got a new Factory Refurb.. Direct.. From the Factory,, ,which is in Marshall.. Cornor of old US-27 and Industerial.

Suddenly the batteries charged nicely/
Click to expand...

this is also great information, thank you.
im going to print this and focus on it in a few days.
 
im confused.
my older pace arrows gene charged the batts..?
even the starter batt IF i was stupid enough to let it die.
maybe the system is different with my "new" rv. i will have to check it. thank you
Click to expand...

The point is that the generator itself is not the charger, any more than the shore power cord is a charger.  Your RV has a 12v converter & charger which requires 120v external power to work. That power comes from either the shore cord or the generator, but it works exactly the same from either source. In fact, the converter/charger doesn't even know what source is in operation. So, if the charger works on shore power, it will also work on the generator. Have you tried shore power yet?

Your Bounder charges both house and chassis batteries when external 120v power is available. Just like the previous Pace.
 
I had enough time to today to locate the front furnace and it's all looking good, except it blows cold.
Rear bedroom furnace blows warm and seems fine. The two halves of my rv have different furnaces but I can find the rear furnace only the air intake and expel vent on the outside of the rv.
The front furnace air intake/expel is installed in the cover for the fan, etc.
The rear seems to be in s different space. So confused

CAP:
Propane working. Stove, oven working, rear furnace blowing warm. Front furnace blowing cold.
Generator runs smooth. 2 hours am 2 hours pm. Apartment electric refrigerator stays cold, ice machine works fine.
Odd buzzing coming from breaker panel is gone. Does not happen ever since I adjusted all gene settings. Under the impression gene was idling too high and shutting breaker panel/converter off.
Both air conditioners blow cold and smooth.
Washer runs great. Dryer runs but I need to re-test for heat. Currently at 1/4 fuel so have to test that in a few days when we can gas up again.
House batts do NOT charge from running the gene however, charge fine when running the engine for 10 or 15 minutes every 8 hours or do, even if we don't drive (unusual). Starter batt fine and holds charge.
 
Gary RV_Wizard said:
The point is that the generator itself is not the charger, any more than the shore power cord is a charger.  Your RV has a 12v converter & charger which requires 120v external power to work. That power comes from either the shore cord or the generator, but it works exactly the same from either source. In fact, the converter/charger doesn't even know what source is in operation. So, if the charger works on shore power, it will also work on the generator. Have you tried shore power yet?

Your Bounder charges both house and chassis batteries when external 120v power is available. Just like the previous Pace.
Click to expand...

We have NOT had an opportunity to use shore power. That is very rare for us. Maybe once every two years at most.
 
Glad you posted.  I wanted to update the dryer post and couldn't remember where it was. 
In the process of re-plumbing my coach, the service guys took my washer out of the hole.  I went up and tested it and it took like 20 minutes to find the problem using the training manual I downloaded from a link someone posted.  In short, once you get the top off the machine, the heating coils and other stuff associated with the dryer are right on top.  Tested both heating coils and they were good.  Then I tested the "thermal fuse", or fusible link(called different names in different places)and found it lacked continuity.  Had to go to the Splendide distributor in Washington for a replacement.  It cost $20-something plus freight, for a total of $39 and will arrive tomorrow.  Then I get to wrestle that thing back in the hole. 
I am so looking forward to having the dryer working again.  I don't mind pants and shirts dried on a line, in fact I like the fresh smell, but I really prefer towels that are soft and fluffy to towels that'd scrape the first layer of skin when you use them.

BTW, the part I'm changing is #10 on page 28 of this pdf. file:  www.splendide.com/service/Combo_PartsBreakDown.pdf
 
I noticed you have a washer dryer (you mentioned the dryer not getting hot enough)

Question: Are you out of PROPANE????  Not sure what heat source the dryer uses but that will kill the furnaces.

Now if you have an inverter (you did mention if the generator "Revs too high it trips the converter" never heard of that but I have with inverters)

Inverters/chargers often monitor frequency, voltage AND WAVEFORM.

Inverters come in 3 flavors.
1: Inverter generators (Honda EU-X000i, Yahama EF-xx00i and more most end the model in a lower case i) These produce clean 60 Hz power well regulated and SHOULD power the RV up to their capacity limit (normally less than the model number)

Large reduced speed generators (Onan, Generac) often installed at the factory in Class A/s  on these the engine speed is 3600/N RPM (Ie 1800, or 1200) Again these are usually clean and if the governor is properly set right clsoe to 120 volts and 60 Hz.  However the key word is USUALLY.

High speed portable (3600 RPM) generators.  Some of these can be downright scary waveform wise. And this may be the issue with your inverter/converter.
 
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