Do nomads put down "home owner" in their auto insurance application?

I am getting my DL and registration for my van in South Dakota and will be a full-timer. (The same applies to full-time slide-in truck campers who have to register their pick-up trucks, but not to RV'ers, who have separate, RV insurance policies. Many full-time van dwellers and truck campers on YouTube do this in South Dakota.)

The online quoting system wants to know if I am a home owner, condo owner, renter, or other. I put down "home owner" since  own my van and am not financing it. Is that ok? If I put down "other", the insurance company might want to know what it is, and if I tell them I live full-time in my van, they might not insure me?? They might say they are not equipped to handle full-timers who live in a van or truck or even car? (And yes, there is a full-timer on YouTube who has a channel called Element Van Living, even though his Honda Element is not a van. And there is a channel called "Debrajoy" where an old lady lives in a Honda Odyssey minivan full-time and went to the Rubber Tramp Rendez-Vouz (RTR).)

Regardless, won't the insurance company know that the address/zip code of my mail forwarder (there are 4 mail forwarders in SD plus about 10 UPS Stores that forward mail) is not where I generally park or "garage" my vehicle and reject me anyway then? All you have to do is google the address or look at google maps satellite view.

Plus I put in the address of a UPS Store (325 Main St.)  for an insurance quote online (without a PMB number to fool them into thinking I am a home owner) and they asked if I wanted to add this random name to my policy, since he lived in my residence. I have no idea who this man is. How did they know this random man lived at the UPS Store address?

I do not want to pay to open a South Dakota mail box until I know SD insurance will work. But I can't get SD insurance until I have a SD address. Catch-22!!!!!!

Please help me!

Interesting question, I just started full-timing and haven't dealt with it yet. The problem is you're not a renter becuase you have no landlord (unless you were renting a spot longterm somewhere), and you're not a homeowner in the normal sense of the definition because you don't have a physical address of the home in question. However, RV interest payments are tax deductible as either primary or secondary residence, so the feds are calling RVs homes in many cases. Therefore, I'd argue you're a homeowner (you want to be sure though to tell the insurance company you're living in the RV full time).

Re the PMB, although UPS tells you to use "PMB", just using formatting such as "123 Smith St, #345" works fine and the mail will still get delivered. Not referring to the box number in some fashion ("suite", "unit", "#") can potentially cause delivery issues.

Sun2Retire said:

Interesting question, I just started full-timing and haven't dealt with it yet. The problem is you're not a renter becuase you have no landlord (unless you were renting a spot longterm somewhere), and you're not a homeowner in the normal sense of the definition because you don't have a physical address of the home in question. However, RV interest payments are tax deductible as either primary or secondary residence, so the feds are calling RVs homes in many cases. Therefore, I'd argue you're a homeowner (you want to be sure though to tell the insurance company you're living in the RV full time).

Re the PMB, although UPS tells you to use "PMB", just using formatting such as "123 Smith St, #345" works fine and the mail will still get delivered. Not referring to the box number in some fashion ("suite", "unit", "#") can potentially cause delivery issues.

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Thanks Sun2Reture! But the problem is if I put "#345" in my address, they will assume it is an apartment, not a home, since homes do not have the pound sign in their address.

Plus what if they find out that my address is actually a mail forwarder? I am also not a true RV'er in that I drive a van. Just like one who lives in a slide-in cab-over truck camper drives a pick-up truck. In either case, you are not using true "RV" insurance, but auto insurance.

mileena said:

you are not using true "RV" insurance, but auto insurance.

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This alone probably answers your own question. On one hand you're telling the insurance company "it's just a car" (presumably to get a lower rate), on the other hand you want to be treated rate-wise as a homeowner.

Re the "#", I own several condos and townhouses that clearly qualify as "homes", they all have unit numbers. "#" does not mean apartment; "Apt" means apartment.

Sun2Retire said:

This alone probably answers your own question. On one hand you're telling the insurance company "it's just a car" (presumably to get a lower rate), on the other hand you want to be treated rate-wise as a homeowner.

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Well, yeah,  it is a car, not an RV. I can't get RV insurance or I would. I have no choice in the matter. Likewise, I do own the car, so I am a homeowner.

mileena said:

Well, yeah,  it is a car, not an RV. I can't get RV insurance or I would. I have no choice in the matter. Likewise, I do own the car, so I am a homeowner.

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So this is an unmodified van, i.e., no bathroom or cooking facilities installed? If so, you're right, it's not an RV and I doubt it would qualify as a "home" by any legal definition. I believe the bathroom and cooking facilities are required under IRS regulation for boats and RVs to qualify as a first or second home.

While I suspect an insurance company will do very little (if any) checking on a claim of home ownership during the application process, should a large claim arise and they start digging you open yourself to the possibility of having the insurance cancelled and claim denied for a fraudulent application. I hear you, it's your home. But these are the rules they play by.

Sun2Retire said:

So this is an unmodified van, i.e., no bathroom or cooking facilities installed? If so, you're right, it's not an RV and I doubt it would qualify as a "home" by any legal definition. I believe the bathroom and cooking facilities are required under IRS regulation for boats and RVs to qualify as a first or second home.

While I suspect an insurance company will do very little (if any) checking on a claim of home ownership during the application process, should a large claim arise and they start digging you open yourself to the possibility of having the insurance cancelled and claim denied for a fraudulent application. I hear you, it's your home. But these are the rules they play by.

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Thanks for clarifying this. I did not know there was a difference.

Yes, it is a minivan, Toyota Sienna. No mods, except the windows are painted black and seats removed. Many famous van dwellers on YouTube are full-time travelers and have no mods either, like Debrajoy, Element Van Living, Wanderlust Estates, and Caravan Carolyn.

I guess my question is: do I put down "renter" (the lowest class where there are no discounts) then? Or "other", and risk not having them insure me at all? I heard that if you live in an non-RV, you can't even get auto insurance on that or full-time in it, so your car in uninsurable until you get a residence.

I can?t give you legal advice other than to say there is a degree of risk if you aren?t truthful on your application. I suppose the least ?incorrect? stance is to simply say you?re a renter and give the PMB using a unit number as suggested and see if they accept it. Or if you know someone in SD that would let you use their address as a physical address (where you ?rent?) you can use the PMB as a mailing address.


I know you?re looking for better answers but there may be none. As you?ve said, insurers may not be happy to find out you?re living full time in a non-rv. If so, it seems pretty black and white - either get an RV of some kind or not tell the truth, I don?t see an in-between.


And just because ?famous? YouTubers are doing it doesn?t mean their insurers wouldn?t drop them instantly (or deny a claim) if they found out. Also, take those YouTubers? stories of nirvana with a grain of salt - many of them live on monetized ?views?, ?likes? and subscriptions, and they fail to mention that ?stealth camping? on a city street for example, is generally illegal.


I?m just the messenger, I hope you get it figured out. Just think things through before making any hasty moves.

mileena said:

Well, yeah,  it is a car, not an RV. I can't get RV insurance or I would. I have no choice in the matter. Likewise, I do own the car, so I am a homeowner.

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Too many confusing word usages I think.  I guess first, you are not following any accepted definition of homeowner as it is used in "legal" matters.  Sleeping in a van that you own does not make you a homeowner, anymore than a person sleeping in a cardboard box they own is legitamately a homeowner.  Ask yourself what a judge in a court would think about your interpretation -- they wouldn't buy it.

Second, I presume you have auto insurance currently.  Read the policy since it will describe what your coverages are.  It will provide coverages arising from use of your van as a non-commercial  passenger vehicle.  It won't say you can't live it, but the insurance would somehow exclude coverages for losses arising from uses others than those covered. You mention fear that they may decline coverage if they learn you are using your van for a nomadic lifestyle, but this would only happen if writing such insurance is not allowed by their underwriting guidelines.  They don't make singular decisions except in rare rare situations.  But if you falsify info, they will cancel you flat, and then you really won't be able to get insurance.

There could be any number of reasons this online quote system asks if you are a homeowner -- anything from marketing more insurance to you to assigning you to a risk pool.  These blind quote systems are automated, and I think you would get further if you found an independent insurance agent to work with and be completely honest with them.  You need to find a company that will be willing to write just plain auto coverages assuming you are not trying to get a bunch of coverages for the "living stuff" inside your van.  An agent could help identify if their is a rider for example that would allow you to have separate "contents" coverage for theft etc.  It kinda comes across that you think the van living per se will disqualify you from getting auto liability etc. Coverages, when it is actually the risk you present for theft, or bodily harm, or other definable circumstances that prevents a company from writing the insurance.

You state that you "heard" you can't get auto insurance until you get a residence, but, even if true,  don't confuse that as meaning homeowner or even a fixed place you lay your head at night. What you are trying to achieve  has nothing to do with residence, domicile, homeownership, taxes on first or second homes etc so keep all that out of the conversation. 

And what is meant by wanting to "know if SD insurance  will work" ?  Again, working with an agent gives you the opportunity to present your circumstances and the agent can try  to find a company whose underwriting allows them to accept the risks they perceive you present.  In spite of the slant that I've seen some of the rubber tramp people present, insurance companies want to write policies cause that's how they make money.  But the bottom line is you have to find one who's risk guidelines  allows them to write insurance for your circumstances, and if your choice of lifestyle puts you in a higher risk class, then you will pay more to get coverage.  Looking for loopholes or ways of disguising your address or circumstances won't work.  The Patriot Act has made sure of this.

You seem familiar with several of the YouTube nomads so why not try contacting them for advice?  You're insuring a vehicle for the normal liabilities covered by auto policies, but since your lifestyle presents hazards that go beyond normal use of the vehicle, you just have to find a company who can add coverages so that you pay for the losses they might incur based on your usage.

Using a PMB has nothing to do with where you live.  It's simply a place to send your mail..I live in NC, my mailing address is in Florida.  I have had no problems with anything. Even my tax bills, tag renewals and such from NC government agencies go to Florida.
A van or truck is not a home. So when asked if you are a home owner, the answer is NO.

You are WAYYY overthinking this and making a problem where there is none.  I think Dreamsend gave a highly thoughtful analysis and response. The key points are:
1. Your car does not qualify as a house or condo, i.e. you are not a homeowner.
2. You don't need a home to get vehicle insurance. When asking for an address, the insurance company wants to know two things:
  a. Where to reach you, i.e. send the bill
  b. Where the vehicle is normally kept and driven. This is part of establishing the premium rate.

Others have already given good input on various aspects of your question, so I'll not repeat.

Gary RV_Wizard is correct on both points.  It's one of the ways insurer companies determine your premium.  Just like age, marital status, driving record (accidents and citations), how many years you have had a license, how many miles you drive in a year, whether or not you drive to work and back, how far you drive to work if you do.
 
Location of the vehicle is a key element in determining the insurance premium.  In California for example, premiums can vary by more than 100% depending on location of residence.  If you're a homeowner, or even a renter, it tells an insurance company where the vehicle is located.  So not having a permanent residence raises a red flag for insurance companies that do not insure a lot of RVers who full-time. 

Keep in mind, when you apply for insurance, you are making representations.  A misrepresentation can be ground for cancellation of coverage and even denial of a claim if you have an accident or loss. 

My suggestion is to find an insurance agent or company that specializes in insuring RVers and explain your situation. 
 

Ok, thanks guys!

Gary RV_Wizard: you are entirely correct in that I am overthinking. That is a flaw in my personality I guess.

Do I need to even get a SD mail forwarder then?

I have a mailbox/forwarder in CA that I love. My DL also doesn't expire for another 4 years.

Can I just give the insurer my CA address for mailing purposes and give them a garaging zip code where I will be traveling in a lot, like in NV or UT?

In the 15 years I have been full timing it I have always answered home owner when ever I was asked because it is a home and I do own it. I have never had a problem with this answer.

mileena said:

Ok, thanks guys!

Gary RV_Wizard: you are entirely correct in that I am overthinking. That is a flaw in my personality I guess.

Do I need to even get a SD mail forwarder then?

I have a mailbox/forwarder in CA that I love. My DL also doesn't expire for another 4 years.

Can I just give the insurer my CA address for mailing purposes and give them a garaging zip code where I will be traveling in a lot, like in NV or UT?

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Hello Mileena

I thought you were trying to get South Dakota insurance so that you could register your van in SD?  What does this have to do with a mail forwarder?  Let me see if I can simplify.

If you want to be part of the "system" and do "legal" things like register a car/van, have it insured, have investment/bank accounts, pay taxes, have a passport or SS card, or vote etc. etc., then you have to be a RESIDENT of some state somewhere.  You don't have to live there, or own property there, but you must meet the "residency" requirements of whatever state you choose TO BE A RESIDENT of.  You can have a mailing address in Paris if you want, but that has nothing to do with your "legal" address.

Whatever state you choose to declare as your RESIDENT state, it will have rules about how long you can be a temporary resident BEFORE you are required to REGISTER a vehicle and obtain a driver's license from that state.  This is normally between 30 and 90 days. 

To register the vehicle, you have to have insurance THAT MEETS THE MINIMUM LIABILITY REQUIREMENTS of the state you are registering the vehicle in.  Every state is different. Therefore you must get vehicle insurance from a company THAT IS LICENSED IN THAT STATE to provide the coverages required by that state's law.  It's that simple.

Some nationally known companies CAN write insurance in many states, but, the policy they issue is for whatever state the insurer is a resident of.  For example, you live in CA and move to Indiana and have insurance from ABC Corp. You have 45 days to register your vehicle and get a driver's license in Indiana because at 45 days you are now considered a resident (not students, migrant workers, temporary assignment, military are exceptions, etc.). 

ABC Corp. is licensed to issue insurance in both states, BUT, the policies they issue are completely different because IN has different LAWS than CA and therefore different requirements for how the insurance is written.  If you are a resident of Indiana (i.e. there for more than 45 days) and have an accident in which you are at fault, but your insurance policy is for CA, the company can deny to pay damages, and then you're really in trouble.  Here in Indiana, you would likely serve jail time for NOT having met the state's requirements for financial responsibility (insurance), not registering your vehicle, and not having a valid driver's license.  That is why you are required, by your insurance policy terms and conditions, to notify your insurance carrier of ANY change of address - but especially if you are changing states. 

AND, none of this has anything to do with your mailing address, or a mail forwarding service.

If you live in CA now, and want to consider CA the state of which you are a resident, then get insurance in CA, register your van in CA, and use your CA driver's license. Use whatever mailing address you want, but you must provide a LEGAL address as well which if I understand may be your mail forwarder in CA.

Simple. You gotta be a resident somewhere -- everything else flows from that.

And no, you should not give them some "garaging address" in UT or NV because this is deceitful.  You're not garaging it at all.  If and when they ask how the van will be used, you're gonna have to tell them - "I'm living in it as a nomad".  When they ask where the van will be parked, you're gonna have to explain your nomadic plans-how many miles you plan to drive per year etc.  As others and I have posted, to be less than honest about things to an insurance company is fraud.  You can present the truth in the best light possible, but you need to be honest.  I still think this is where an independent agent can help you. 

Your only other option (not recommended) in order to register your vehicle may be to be "self-insured" which means you have the cash and WILL ALWAYS HAVE it to cover all the liability limits of whatever your resident state requires, i.e. bodily injury, harm, property damage, medical payments, -- whatever.  And, I don't know what states even allow this as an option anymore.

Hope this might make things a little easier.

L