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Author Topic: battery control center "glitch"...  (Read 880 times)

mikeylikesit

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battery control center "glitch"...
« on: January 17, 2018, 08:25:49 AM »
Is there something in the battery control center on a Pace Arrow 35J  that senses battery state and can shut off the house batteries if the voltage falls below a threshold?

We were out in the desert and had run the generator for a few hours in the afternoon.  retired for the night with 1 furnace running.  Awoke about 4 am very cold......everything had shut off.....lights, fridge, furnace.  Even the systems monitoring panel

I went to start the generator but nothing.  I started the engine and after about 1 minute I heard a "click" from under the hood, and everything turned back on.  I let it run for a few more minutes as I checked things out.......the battery monitor showed full power on the house batteries. Reset things and went back to bed.........things seemed back to normal.  However, about 9 that morning it happened again, as I was washing up some dishes power just turned off. 

This time, I went to the battery switches and the house batteries had indeed been turned off (just like someone had reached up and hit the "off" rocker switch......but no-one did, I was the only one in the coach).

my batteries are brand new, I've checked all the connections........I am wondering if something is amiss in the control center, hence my original question.

Thanks in advance for any insight!
Mike and Valerie
1996 Pace Arrow 35J - FORD 460 w/Banks Power and Gear Vendor Over/Underdrive
2000 Jeep Cherokee TOAD using Roadmaster and Brakemaster system.
CanAm Maverick X3 XDS  SxS

Kevin Means

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Re: battery control center "glitch"...
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2018, 11:21:20 AM »
Hmmm... I've never heard of a device that would automatically shut your house-batteries off, and I certainly wouldn't want that to happen to me in the middle of the night (or anytime). I'm thinking maybe your battery isolation solenoid might be bad.

Kev
2011 Winnebago Tour 42QD
Towing a Jeep Rubicon Unlimited LJ
RVI Brake 2, Minder TM-66 TPMS, 960 watts of solar
(Can't wait to spend more time RVing)
Lakeside, California

John From Detroit

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Re: battery control center "glitch"...
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2018, 01:56:53 PM »
i have heard of such a device but never  a factory install.

Due to the fact that STARTING batteries need to be 80-90 percent charged or they age faster. So i is sold for cars as an Add on .
Nothing adds excitement like something that is none of your business
My Home is where I park it.

mikeylikesit

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Re: battery control center "glitch"...
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2018, 03:59:03 PM »
Thanks Kev. 

I can't think of any way to "test" the solenoid other than continuity of the coil.......the contacts are either closed or they are not.  Perhaps if the contacts are pitted badly it could cause it to intermittently lose it's connection.....

anyway it's a cheap enough component to just replace.

BTW, we are neighbors. I live in El Cajon.     ;D
Mike and Valerie
1996 Pace Arrow 35J - FORD 460 w/Banks Power and Gear Vendor Over/Underdrive
2000 Jeep Cherokee TOAD using Roadmaster and Brakemaster system.
CanAm Maverick X3 XDS  SxS

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: battery control center "glitch"...
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2018, 10:51:12 AM »
No, there is nothing like that built into the BCC, whether yours has the RV Products BCC or the Intelletec.  [I now see it's a '96 Pace, so it's the RVP BCC module.]

However, the battery disconnect solenoid is itself powered by 12v, so at some point it might drop out if voltage drops too low. I don't know if yours is wired such that continuous voltage is required to keep that solenoid engaged, but that would explain the symptoms you have.  When the engine started, It began supply 12v power from the engine alternator and everything came alive again.   No magic there!

The furnace fan draws several amps and  can run a lot of hours on a cold night, running the battery(s) down. Is it just one battery, or two?  In any case, not a lot of amp-hours available, especially if the batteries are a bit tired.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2018, 10:53:48 AM by Gary RV_Wizard »
Gary
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Gary Brinck
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Home: Ocala National Forest, FL

mikeylikesit

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Re: battery control center "glitch"...
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2018, 08:24:51 AM »
That is what was puzzling me Gary.......2 brand new house batteries, brand new power converter, and the genset had run for 2 hours or more that afternoon.  There is no way I "should have" been low on voltage.....

I think my best course will be to go and buy a solenoid, and keep it in the rig.  If (when) this happens again, I'll do some t/shooting while it is in the "tripped" state......to hopefully verify the issue.  Of course, Murphy says that will occur about 3 in the morning, on a rainy day.  :)

EDIT:  Well, after reading thru this thread....  http://www.rvforum.net/SMF_forum/index.php/topic,95146.0.html   .....I believe I will go ahead and change out the battery isolation relays as well as the solenoid, on my schedule vs. when it breaks down.

I'm still amazed at the wealth of information available on this website if one is willing (and has time) to break out the shovel and start digging! :D
« Last Edit: January 19, 2018, 09:27:25 AM by mikeylikesit »
Mike and Valerie
1996 Pace Arrow 35J - FORD 460 w/Banks Power and Gear Vendor Over/Underdrive
2000 Jeep Cherokee TOAD using Roadmaster and Brakemaster system.
CanAm Maverick X3 XDS  SxS

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: battery control center "glitch"...
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2018, 09:35:15 AM »
Quote
2 brand new house batteries, brand new power converter, and the genset had run for 2 hours or more that afternoon.  There is no way I "should have" been low on voltage.....

Maybe, but two hours would not have brought the charge up to 100% if the batteries were low to begin with, say maybe 50%.  Two batteries could be anywhere from 160 AH to 230AH, so the amount of available power is vague as well.  Further, you didn't say anything about DC usage before you went to bed.

You can make up a little jumper wire for your solenoid(s) so you can bypass them easily. A short length of 10 gauge wire and two good alligator clips makes for a 30A bypass. 50A if you use #10 Automotive Primary Wire instead of a more common grade. Most auto parts stores have it.
Gary
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Gary Brinck
Summers: Black Mountain, NC
Home: Ocala National Forest, FL

rls7201

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Re: battery control center "glitch"...
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2018, 09:17:25 PM »
No, there is nothing like that built into the BCC, whether yours has the RV Products BCC or the Intelletec.  [I now see it's a '96 Pace, so it's the RVP BCC module.]

However, the battery disconnect solenoid is itself powered by 12v, so at some point it might drop out if voltage drops too low. I don't know if yours is wired such that continuous voltage is required to keep that solenoid engaged, but that would explain the symptoms you have.  When the engine started, It began supply 12v power from the engine alternator and everything came alive again.   No magic there!

The furnace fan draws several amps and  can run a lot of hours on a cold night, running the battery(s) down. Is it just one battery, or two?  In any case, not a lot of amp-hours available, especially if the batteries are a bit tired.

The OPs RV Custom Products battery disconnect relays are self latching. No voltage required to keep them latched closed or open.

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: battery control center "glitch"...
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2018, 08:12:38 AM »
Quote
The OPs RV Custom Products battery disconnect relays are self latching. No voltage required to keep them latched closed or open.

Thanks. I thought I remembered that from my [long ago] previous '96 Southwind, but wasn't positive.   I've seen some relays in use that were not the latching type, so wanted to mention it.  Also some that have a default "no power" position they revert to.
Gary
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Gary Brinck
Summers: Black Mountain, NC
Home: Ocala National Forest, FL

mikeylikesit

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Re: battery control center "glitch"...
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2018, 12:10:58 PM »
thanks for all the useful information.   I'll report back when I am sure I have determined the cause.
Mike and Valerie
1996 Pace Arrow 35J - FORD 460 w/Banks Power and Gear Vendor Over/Underdrive
2000 Jeep Cherokee TOAD using Roadmaster and Brakemaster system.
CanAm Maverick X3 XDS  SxS

mikeylikesit

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Re: battery control center "glitch"...
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2018, 08:08:17 AM »
So, with another long weekend trip under my belt, I'm still perplexed. 

Dry camping, ran the genny for 6 hours in the afternoon, went to bed with 1 furnace running. Woke up to no house power. tried the isolation switch, nothing. (so no start on the genny).  Started the engine, after a minute or 2, genny fired up and house batteries were again ON and appeared FULL. 

I don't think it could be the "combiner" solenoid..........but more likely a faulty Battery Disconnect relay.  Is it common for those to go bad?   I don't want to start changing parts aimlessly.....especially when they are a PITA to get to....

still kicking myself for not taking voltage readings, and notes.  Going to try to re-create the scenario in my driveway this weekend.....

EDIT:  went ahead and ordered the disconnect from https://pdxrvwholesale.com/.  Also ordered the solenoid, might as well change that too while in there.   Hoping this is the fix!
« Last Edit: March 06, 2018, 08:22:04 AM by mikeylikesit »
Mike and Valerie
1996 Pace Arrow 35J - FORD 460 w/Banks Power and Gear Vendor Over/Underdrive
2000 Jeep Cherokee TOAD using Roadmaster and Brakemaster system.
CanAm Maverick X3 XDS  SxS

John From Detroit

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Re: battery control center "glitch"...
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2018, 05:43:44 PM »
The Furnace is a MAJOR power hog.. (12 volt wise) so you fully charged the batteries, then FULLY discharged them, this is why you had no house power (An incandascent lamp may have had a very dim glow) Basically you had an OH C***! level discharge of the house batteries.

You need more battery.
Nothing adds excitement like something that is none of your business
My Home is where I park it.

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: battery control center "glitch"...
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2018, 05:59:35 PM »
Your charge status always shows "full" when the charger is operating, but  as soon as you shut the genset (or shore) down, the gauge should give an approximation of the charge state. However, the difference between full charge and flat dead is only about 1.0v, basically between (12.6 (full) and 11.5 (almost dead).  Your reasonable operating range is between 12.6 and about 12.0. Much below that and the battery life soon gets shortened. If you've severely discharged them a few times already, there may be very little run time (amp hours) left between 12.6 and 12.0.

As JFD says, the furnace fan eats 5-6 amps/hour, so doesn't take long to run the battery down.
Gary
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Gary Brinck
Summers: Black Mountain, NC
Home: Ocala National Forest, FL

mikeylikesit

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Re: battery control center "glitch"...
« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2018, 09:12:54 PM »
Gotcha.  Thanks guys.

I thought my 2 new Crown CR-220's were plenty, but I'm not opposed to adding more battery.

buddy of mine added 2 similar size to his rig, and put them on an inverter system, because he does alot of camping in National Parks where you can't run the genny until 8 AM and he is an early riser.
I might have to do that.
Mike and Valerie
1996 Pace Arrow 35J - FORD 460 w/Banks Power and Gear Vendor Over/Underdrive
2000 Jeep Cherokee TOAD using Roadmaster and Brakemaster system.
CanAm Maverick X3 XDS  SxS