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Author Topic: Opinions on payload on my 2015 Siverado HD Diesel  (Read 2340 times)

Papadude

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Opinions on payload on my 2015 Siverado HD Diesel
« on: January 26, 2018, 01:06:08 PM »
Hello,
We are starting to look for a new 5th wheel and I am confused with my cargo rating on my truck.  The door sticker says 2,404 lbs and 10,000 GVWR.  The weight of the truck is about 7880 lbs, (from the dump transfer station receipt).  That figures out at 2,120 payload.  So my problem is that according to the brochure on a Cougar 5th wheel trailers, I need to stay with a half ton towable.  For instace a 30 RLS has a dry weight of 8825, carrying capacity of 2175, and hitch weight is 1690.  My calculations are a gross trailer weight of 11,000.  20% hitch weight would be 2200, 25% would be 2,750. 

I called the Chevy dealer where we bought the truck, and according to my build sheet he said the payload was 3,501 lbs. max payload.

Are my numbers right?  I don't want to believe I bought a new truck with a max trailer rating of 17,100 lbs that will only haul a half ton towable.
Guy
Air Force Retired
2019 Keystone Cougar half-ton 30RLS
2015 Chevy HD 2500 diesel 4X4 crew cab standard box

kdbgoat

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Re: Opinions on payload on my 2015 Siverado HD Diesel
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2018, 01:58:28 PM »
You have your numbers figured correctly. The person you talked to at the dealership doesn't know squat except how to read a brochure, and doesn't have a clue about the infamous "yellow sticker" which is where your real numbers come from. Believe it, that's all your truck can handle, a "1/2 ton towable" model, and maybe not that. You still have to subtract another 150-200# from the payload for the fifth wheel hitch. I recommend you start looking at travel trailers. Sorry for being so blunt.
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Oldgator73

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Re: Opinions on payload on my 2015 Siverado HD Diesel
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2018, 02:11:34 PM »
Is your truck  crew cab, xtra cab or single cab? 4x2 or 4x4? That curb weight seems a little high. Anyway, I think there is way to get all the info on your truck using the VIN.
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xrated

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Re: Opinions on payload on my 2015 Siverado HD Diesel
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2018, 02:15:21 PM »
Don't rely on a dump station scale receipt.  Do a search and find your nearest CAT certified scale, usually located at almost every truck stop and get an accurate weight of the truck.  Go there with a full tank of fuel and only you in the driver's seat.  Once you get your scale ticket, subtract that number from the GVWR of your truck....10K and you will be within a few pounds of knowing exactly what your payload capacity of the truck is.  Once you have that number, you can then start adding all of the weight that you are going to put IN the truck AND ON the truck.....passenger(s), tool box, grill, campfire wood, air compressor, etc.  Anything and everything that goes on or in the truck counts against your payload number.  So if for instance when you got your CAT scale ticket and did the math, you have 2100 lbs of payload capacity, you would deduct all the weights that I just mentioned from that number.  After that, you now know how much you have left over for the pin weight and 5ver hitch.  I'm not familiar with the Chevy's payload on a 3/4 Ton truck, but I'm very familiar with the Ford 3/4 Ton trucks.  I had a 2011 F250 Crew Cab, 4x4, Diesel with the short bed and I had a whopping 2148 lbs of payload capacity as the truck was built.......not very much.
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kdbgoat

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Re: Opinions on payload on my 2015 Siverado HD Diesel
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2018, 02:19:37 PM »
His scaled weight from the transfer station may actually be close. There's 284 pounds difference between the sticker and the scale. Subtract driver's weight from the 284 and then subtract the weight of anyone else and everything else that's been added to the truck in the 3 years since it was new. Probably pretty close.
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Re: Opinions on payload on my 2015 Siverado HD Diesel
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2018, 02:30:19 PM »
His scaled weight from the transfer station may actually be close. There's 284 pounds difference between the sticker and the scale. Subtract driver's weight from the 284 and then subtract the weight of anyone else and everything else that's been added to the truck in the 3 years since it was new. Probably pretty close.

You may be right kd, but if it were me, I'd still probably go to a certified CAT scale.  IIRC, they are guaranteed to be within 20 lbs of actual weight.....thus the certification.  And, the OP didn't really say.....there may have been a few things added to the truck after it was build; by him or if there was a previous owner....like maybe different wheels, a too box, etc.  I know that with the later model Ford trucks, the payload stick is based on the "as built" and with a full tank of fuel, and they don't even allow for the weight of the driver anymore.
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kdbgoat

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Re: Opinions on payload on my 2015 Siverado HD Diesel
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2018, 02:36:38 PM »
I agree, CAT scales will be more accurate. I've got two certified scales here at work. (grain elevator) The big plus about weighing any truck is that everything that has been added is getting weighed. Stuff like a bedliner, that emergency roadside kit ya' threw under the seat, those 14 ratchet straps tucked under the other seat, etc. All that stuff adds up after a while.
I know you believe you understand what you think I said,
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Oldgator73

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Re: Opinions on payload on my 2015 Siverado HD Diesel
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2018, 02:59:43 PM »
I made the mistake one time of weighing before we went to the Golden Corral. Put my CCC way off.
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Papadude

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Re: Opinions on payload on my 2015 Siverado HD Diesel
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2018, 03:10:08 PM »
Is your truck  crew cab, xtra cab or single cab? 4x2 or 4x4? That curb weight seems a little high. Anyway, I think there is way to get all the info on your truck using the VIN.

It is a crew cab, 4X4
Guy
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Papadude

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Re: Opinions on payload on my 2015 Siverado HD Diesel
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2018, 03:13:15 PM »
You may be right kd, but if it were me, I'd still probably go to a certified CAT scale.  IIRC, they are guaranteed to be within 20 lbs of actual weight.....thus the certification.  And, the OP didn't really say.....there may have been a few things added to the truck after it was build; by him or if there was a previous owner....like maybe different wheels, a too box, etc.  I know that with the later model Ford trucks, the payload stick is based on the "as built" and with a full tank of fuel, and they don't even allow for the weight of the driver anymore.

I am the original owner, I have a 5th wheel mount installed, the scale weight is without the mount, just the rails and attaching hardware to the frame.  Nothing else added. Except my weight of 200 lbs.
Guy
Air Force Retired
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2015 Chevy HD 2500 diesel 4X4 crew cab standard box

Papadude

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Re: Opinions on payload on my 2015 Siverado HD Diesel
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2018, 03:17:52 PM »
His scaled weight from the transfer station may actually be close. There's 284 pounds difference between the sticker and the scale. Subtract driver's weight from the 284 and then subtract the weight of anyone else and everything else that's been added to the truck in the 3 years since it was new. Probably pretty close.

yup, if you subtract my weight I got 84 lbs, that's probably the 5r hitch rails and attachment hardware to the frame.
Guy
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Rene T

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Re: Opinions on payload on my 2015 Siverado HD Diesel
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2018, 03:51:44 PM »
I made the mistake one time of weighing before we went to the Golden Corral. Put my CCC way off.

It's a good thing you didn't weigh yourself after going to the Golden Corral.   :'( :-\ ;D
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Oldgator73

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Re: Opinions on payload on my 2015 Siverado HD Diesel
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2018, 04:12:31 PM »
It's a good thing you didn't weigh yourself after going to the Golden Corral.   :'( :-\ ;D

See Rene, that's the reason they made you a moderator. I was just testing folks to see how well they pay attention.
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Boonieman

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Re: Opinions on payload on my 2015 Siverado HD Diesel
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2018, 04:15:00 PM »
   When I first joined the forum it took me a little while to get over Kdbgoats bluntness. But hes almost always right, dang it.  👍🏻
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Oldgator73

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Re: Opinions on payload on my 2015 Siverado HD Diesel
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2018, 04:25:43 PM »
   When I first joined the forum it took me a little while to get over Kdbgoats bluntness. But hes almost always right, dang it.  👍🏻

He wasn't near this blunt before he quit smoking.  ;D
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Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Opinions on payload on my 2015 Siverado HD Diesel
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2018, 04:55:23 PM »
Quote
Are my numbers right?  I don't want to believe I bought a new truck with a max trailer rating of 17,100 lbs that will only haul a half ton towable.

Not sure where you got the "half ton towable" from, cause any half-ton truck will be even more limited when it comes a 5W trailer.  If you are referring to the ad brochures from RV manufacturers, those are great works of fiction!   However, the numbers you have are probably right, and the Payload listed on the door sticker is official and within 100 lbs of actual, per the prescribed federal government weighing method.

The Max Tow Rating is for all types of trailers. Your truck could easily tow a big flat bed trailer loaded with bricks, to the tune of 17,000 lbs. That type of trailer has a low tongue weight and very little wind resistance, so pulling power and chassis strength are the primary requirements.  A 5W RV, however, places a high percentage of weight on the hitch (truck bed) and thus Payload (Cargo Capacity) becomes a key limitation.  You run out of Payload long before you run out of grunt strength.

For the same reason, most half ton trucks cannot tow those 5W's advertised as "half ton towable". Few half tons can carry more than 1500-1600 lbs of cargo, so they are limited to 5W with a GVWR well under 8000.  Many crew cab, fancy trim half tons would struggle with even a 7000 lb 5W because they often have cargo ratings in the 1200-1400 lb range.
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grashley

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Re: Opinions on payload on my 2015 Siverado HD Diesel
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2018, 06:39:57 PM »
As the old TV show said, JUST THE FACTS!

Your payload is 2404, per the government mandated, factory applied yellow placard, as Gary explained.

By definition, Payload is an empty truck, full fuel tank, no passengers or cargo.  As you found, adding your weight and other stuff like 5er rails and subtracting for low fuel, the numbers agree.

The salesman has no clue!!!!  That huge number is likely for the base reg cab 2500 with no options, which are only sold as work trucks.  It does NOT apply to your truck!  It is the biggest Payload ANY 2500 could possibly have.

Also YOUR truck does not have a Max Tow wt of 17,100#.  The bare naked 2500 with the big payload has that Max Tow.  The fine print will tell you that must be reduced by the weight of all installed options, cargo and passengers in excess of the 2 passengers at 150 # each that are included.  Note also Gary's comments.

As kbdgoat said, you may want to look at TT!
« Last Edit: January 26, 2018, 06:45:48 PM by grashley »
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steveblonde

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Re: Opinions on payload on my 2015 Siverado HD Diesel
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2018, 07:23:48 PM »
sorry to say but the gentlemen above are correct yes
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Papadude

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Re: Opinions on payload on my 2015 Siverado HD Diesel
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2018, 07:31:25 PM »
Not sure where you got the "half ton towable" from, cause any half-ton truck will be even more limited when it comes a 5W trailer.  If you are referring to the ad brochures from RV manufacturers, those are great works of fiction!   However, the numbers you have are probably right, and the Payload listed on the door sticker is official and within 100 lbs of actual, per the prescribed federal government weighing method.

The Max Tow Rating is for all types of trailers. Your truck could easily tow a big flat bed trailer loaded with bricks, to the tune of 17,000 lbs. That type of trailer has a low tongue weight and very little wind resistance, so pulling power and chassis strength are the primary requirements.  A 5W RV, however, places a high percentage of weight on the hitch (truck bed) and thus Payload (Cargo Capacity) becomes a key limitation.  You run out of Payload long before you run out of grunt strength.

For the same reason, most half ton trucks cannot tow those 5W's advertised as "half ton towable". Few half tons can carry more than 1500-1600 lbs of cargo, so they are limited to 5W with a GVWR well under 8000.  Many crew cab, fancy trim half tons would struggle with even a 7000 lb 5W because they often have cargo ratings in the 1200-1400 lb range.

Yes, I was quoting the manufacturers brochure, the Cougar half ton towable is the model type, not necessarily able to be towed by a half ton truck.  I just thought that a 2500 HD Duramax Diesel truck should be able to tow a larger trailer than that...that's what I get for thinking!
Guy
Air Force Retired
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2015 Chevy HD 2500 diesel 4X4 crew cab standard box

SeilerBird

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Re: Opinions on payload on my 2015 Siverado HD Diesel
« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2018, 08:17:34 PM »
Yes, I was quoting the manufacturers brochure, the Cougar half ton towable is the model type, not necessarily able to be towed by a half ton truck.  I just thought that a 2500 HD Duramax Diesel truck should be able to tow a larger trailer than that...that's what I get for thinking!
The biggest problem is that lately the 1/2 and 3/4 ton trucks all have this massive very menacing looking grill that imitates a semi truck. That coupled with the ads on TV showing trucks pulling massive loads and salesmen who would lie to their mother to sell a vehicle gives many newbies the feeling their truck can pull anything. But it is not just the ability to pull. There was an episode of Top Gear where they took three 1/2 tons and each one was able to tow a 727 without issue. The real problems comes with being able to stop safely in a reasonable distance and being able to control the RV during high winds and semi trucks passing you. If you want to tow a large vehicle with a small truck it will be a real white knuckle experience. You cannot get too much truck but it is easy to get too much trailer.
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Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Opinions on payload on my 2015 Siverado HD Diesel
« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2018, 08:21:21 PM »
As you have seen, the trailer GVWR is not the only measure of a "bigger trailer".

When they do the testing per SAE J2807 to establish the Max Tow rating, they always use a low-boy trailer loaded with dense weights to keep the profile low and wind resistance at near zero. That lets them get bigger Max Tow numbers for bragging rights. However, that low boy trailer uses a ball mount hitch and is balanced to carry most of the weight on the trailer axles, not on the truck.   Further, that max tow rating cannot be sustained if the trailer has a lot of frontal area - Ford even has a page in their Tow Guide dedicated to the effects of frontal area (wind resistance).

The Ford Tow Guide also states this:

Quote
Weight assumes a towing vehicle with any mandatory options, no cargo, tongue load of 1015% (conventional trailer) or king pin weight of 1525% (5th-wheel trailer) and driver and passenger (150 lbs. each). Weight of additional options, passengers, cargo and hitch must be deducted from this weight.

The ChevroletTowing  Guide has this warning:

Quote
It is important that the combination of the tow vehicle and trailer does not exceed any of its weight ratings GCWR, GVWR, RGAWR, trailer weight rating or tongue weight. The only way to be sure to not exceed any of these ratings is to weigh the tow vehicle and trailer
combination, fully loaded for the trip, getting individual weights for each of these items
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longhaul

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Re: Opinions on payload on my 2015 Siverado HD Diesel
« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2018, 08:28:58 PM »
Quote
Are my numbers right?  I don't want to believe I bought a new truck with a max trailer rating of 17,100 lbs that will only haul a half ton towable.
The 17k lb trailer tow trating is for all types of trailers...not just a 5th wheel rv trailer.
 Example is my 16k GN tri axle stock trailer.
  With your truck we can load the trailer with light stock in the front of the trailer and heavies over the trailers axles. This way you won't exceed the trucks 6200 RAWR..
 The yellow payload sticker is a gvwr based payload which when used in the bed payload are notorious for over loading "some" trucks rawr. Thats one reason the yellow payload sticker isn't used in any legal sense/legal civil lawsuits for a overloaded vehicle. The yellow payload sticker became mandatory in the '06 era. Some were in use earlier.
 My '03 2500 and '98 3500 DRW don't have a payload sticker.  We simply safely carry weight in the bed up to the trucks RAWR.
 Your actual payload can be determined by actual scaled front and rear axle weights.
 Example; many late model 2500 GM trucks rear axle can weigh in the 3000 lb range leaving around 3200 lb in the bed payloads. The only difference in your 2500 and the 3500 SRW is a heavier rear spring pack. However a 17k lb 5th wheel rv trailer has too moch hitch load for any one ton SRW truck.
 I would stay under a 12500 lb gross weight trailer.  Or mod the truck with higher rated tires/wheels and rear spring pack may gain another 400-500 lbs of payload.

 If you need to know your trucks legal load limits contact your area local state troop hdqtrs. They can help you with those numbers.

TonyDtorch

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Re: Opinions on payload on my 2015 Siverado HD Diesel
« Reply #22 on: January 26, 2018, 09:28:38 PM »
So...What happens if your 250 lb sister-in-law wants to go camping with you ?   

Besides,  that "Yellow Sticker' says the weight Should not exceed that amount.....It's the factory suggested weight limit, it's not a DOT mandated weight limit.

I think it'd be okay to let you sister-in-law ride along once or twice.. ;D

 
« Last Edit: January 26, 2018, 09:58:27 PM by TonyDtorch »

RVRAC

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Re: Opinions on payload on my 2015 Siverado HD Diesel
« Reply #23 on: January 26, 2018, 10:51:56 PM »
My son has a similar truck.  He could not believe how limited the payload was for his diesel truck. Less than 2,200#.
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Oldgator73

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Re: Opinions on payload on my 2015 Siverado HD Diesel
« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2018, 12:47:05 AM »
So...What happens if your 250 lb sister-in-law wants to go camping with you ?   

Besides,  that "Yellow Sticker' says the weight Should not exceed that amount.....It's the factory suggested weight limit, it's not a DOT mandated weight limit.

I think it'd be okay to let you sister-in-law ride along once or twice.. ;D

 

She would have to drive her own car.
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bailer6334

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Re: Opinions on payload on my 2015 Siverado HD Diesel
« Reply #25 on: January 27, 2018, 07:15:09 AM »
I have a 2016 Chevy 4X4 Duramax CC and my build sheet shows:

Curb Weight - Front
4511  lbs  3788.0 min 4511.0 max
Curb Weight - Rear
2872  lbs  2736.0 min 3280.0 max
Fifth Wheel Hitch - Max Trailer Wt.
13900  lbs  13900.0 min 14000.0 max
Fifth Wheel Hitch - Max Tongue Wt.
3475  lbs  3475.0 min 3500.0 max
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CWSWine

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Re: Opinions on payload on my 2015 Siverado HD Diesel
« Reply #26 on: January 27, 2018, 09:46:30 AM »
So...What happens if your 250 lb sister-in-law wants to go camping with you ?   

Besides,  that "Yellow Sticker' says the weight Should not exceed that amount.....It's the factory suggested weight limit, it's not a DOT mandated weight limit.

I think it'd be okay to let you sister-in-law ride along once or twice.. ;D

 

This is a quote from Ford user manual....

 "Trailer tongue (trailer king pin for 5th-wheel towing) load weight should be 10% (15% for 5th-wheel towing) of total loaded trailer weight. Make sure vehicle payload (reduce by option weight) will accommodate trailer tongue (trailer king pin for 5th-wheel towing) load weight and weight of passengers and cargo added to towing vehicle. Addition of trailer tongue (trailer king pin for 5th-wheel towing) load weight and weight of passengers and cargo must not cause vehicle weights to exceed rear GAWR or GVWR. These ratings can be found on the vehicle Safety Compliance Certification Label."
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SeilerBird

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Re: Opinions on payload on my 2015 Siverado HD Diesel
« Reply #27 on: January 27, 2018, 10:14:53 AM »
So...What happens if your 250 lb sister-in-law wants to go camping with you ?   
 
Put the lady on a diet.
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Re: Opinions on payload on my 2015 Siverado HD Diesel
« Reply #28 on: January 27, 2018, 11:06:48 AM »
I have a 2016 Chevy 4X4 Duramax CC and my build sheet shows:

Curb Weight - Front
4511  lbs  3788.0 min 4511.0 max
Curb Weight - Rear
2872  lbs  2736.0 min 3280.0 max
Fifth Wheel Hitch - Max Trailer Wt.
13900  lbs  13900.0 min 14000.0 max
Fifth Wheel Hitch - Max Tongue Wt.
3475  lbs  3475.0 min 3500.0 max

what does the door decal state? it will tell you cargo capacity in simple terms - meaning wieght of passengers and cargo in or out of the box ie hitch wood tools etc - drivers side door  while its not absolute it is the EASYIEST way to figure out what the vehicle can safely handle - take the pin weight of the trailer and subtract from the payload that will give you whats left to carry

 or use this

 http://www.towingplanner.com/Calculators/TowingPayloadEstimate/?ccc=4125&dw=235&pw=165&hw=250&bd=125&ct=FW
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Oldgator73

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Re: Opinions on payload on my 2015 Siverado HD Diesel
« Reply #29 on: January 27, 2018, 11:39:02 AM »
what does the door decal state? it will tell you cargo capacity in simple terms - meaning wieght of passengers and cargo in or out of the box ie hitch wood tools etc - drivers side door  while its not absolute it is the EASYIEST way to figure out what the vehicle can safely handle - take the pin weight of the trailer and subtract from the payload that will give you whats left to carry

 or use this

 http://www.towingplanner.com/Calculators/TowingPayloadEstimate/?ccc=4125&dw=235&pw=165&hw=250&bd=125&ct=FW

That's a pretty easy calculator. I plugged the info in for my truck and the lower end estimate was pretty close to what I had calculated. I calculated a trailer weight of 5430lbs but only used 90% of that weight due to some earlier posts on the subject. 90% brings it down to 4887lbs. Our trailer GVWR is 3800lbs. One thing I don't understand is the range your formula gives. For my truck it was 5053-7580 lbs. That's quite a range.
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