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Author Topic: Why do they do this?  (Read 864 times)

Tom

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Why do they do this?
« on: January 26, 2018, 02:39:26 PM »
Whenever someone wants to try out one of my instruments, they insist on tweaking the tuning pegs back and forth, even if I tell them I've just tuned it. It's like an obsession, and sometimes leads to unnecessary breakage (e.g. of a tuning peg). I've never understood the obsession, although I fully understand that you can't play an instrument that's not in tune. What part of "I just tuned it" do they not understand  ???
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SeilerBird

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Re: Why do they do this?
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2018, 02:49:15 PM »
I don't mean for this to sound insulting Tom but most of the time when I pick up an instrument that was just tuned it is not even close to being in tune. Many times I have been in a bar and heard that the guitar player was out of tune. Sometimes I even know which string and if it is flat or sharp. I realize you probably tune by an electronic tuner but most instruments, especially ukuleles go out of tune very quickly. Also some of the people retuning may have a bad sense of pitch and think they are improving it when making it worse. I have a friend who is an audio engineer and he cannot open up any program or app without first going to the control panel and adjusting everything. He thinks he is improving it when really he is just changing to suit his ego. They aren't hurting anything by retuning it so don't worry about it.
I would like to apologize to anyone I have not yet offended. Please be patient and I will get to you shortly.
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Corky

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Re: Why do they do this?
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2018, 02:50:50 PM »
Could be there are more tin ears than what anyone figured. ???
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Tom

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Re: Why do they do this?
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2018, 03:01:53 PM »
Understood Tom, and no offense taken.

Quote
I realize you probably tune by an electronic tuner

Yes I do. My ears tell me when something is out of tune, but my brain can't tell me whether I need to re-tune up or down. So I can either turn the tuning peg and listen, kinda trial and error, or just use a tuner.

Quote
... most instruments, especially ukuleles go out of tune very quickly.

After the initial stretching of the strings (up to a week of daily playing), I find that my ukes don't change much, except with temperature (probably also with humidity). During that first week, I'm continually checking (with a tuner), and watch the strings settle in. Some folks just grab a newly-installed string and pull upwards to reduce the stretch-in period, but I don't trust myself to do that.

Quote
They aren't hurting anything by retuning it so don't worry about it.

Except that, as I said, some folks occasionally break a tuning peg (actually, more like the knob). I've now resorted to carrying spare tuners.
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SeilerBird

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Re: Why do they do this?
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2018, 03:14:05 PM »
Wow, I have never broken a tuning peg nor have I been around anyone breaking a tuning peg. This reminds me of a story I heard many years ago about a famous violinist, I forget who, who would spend ten minutes making micro adjustments to his violin tuning prior to playing. When asked about it he said he was doing it to impress the audience with his ultra sharp hearing.
I would like to apologize to anyone I have not yet offended. Please be patient and I will get to you shortly.
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Tom

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Re: Why do they do this?
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2018, 03:47:06 PM »
Quote
... he said he was doing it to impress the audience with his ultra sharp hearing


That's what I figured these obsessive re-tuners were doing  ;D
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SeilerBird

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Re: Why do they do this?
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2018, 03:59:32 PM »
Here is some more info on the subject:

http://zerocapcable.com/?page_id=225
I would like to apologize to anyone I have not yet offended. Please be patient and I will get to you shortly.
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Tom

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Re: Why do they do this?
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2018, 06:32:59 PM »
Thanks, but there's nowt there I wasn't already aware of. I still fail to understand the obsession. Maybe it's an addiction  :o  Do they offer 12-step recovery programs?
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SeilerBird

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Re: Why do they do this?
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2018, 06:38:38 PM »
There is a certain unnamed person who has a multitude of obsessions that I cannot possibly grasp. I gave up trying to understand him a long time ago. People are weird. It is why I am single. ???
I would like to apologize to anyone I have not yet offended. Please be patient and I will get to you shortly.
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8Muddypaws

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Re: Why do they do this?
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2018, 10:07:17 PM »
I have a tee shirt that says 'Tune it or die'.  Teaching a class that contained 20% tuning impaired people made me do it.  I have OK ears most of the time.

I offered a street performer in DC $5 if he would let me tune his guitar.  He refused.  He was so far out it hurt!

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Arch Hoagland

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Re: Why do they do this?
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2018, 10:29:27 PM »
I saw a clip where Willie Nelson and another singer talking and the guy said to Willie "Your guitar is out of tune."

Willie replied "How would YOU know?"

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Heli_av8tor

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Re: Why do they do this?
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2018, 09:54:35 AM »
I sometimes wish my Tin Ear was a little better. But then I remember that I sit right in front of the trumpets.

Perfect pitch hearing would be a curse...

Tom
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SargeW

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Re: Why do they do this?
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2018, 10:42:49 AM »
You guys don't realize how lucky you are to be even having this conversation! I am a huge music lover and would have given ANYTHING to be able to play an instrument. I have no musical talent what so ever. Can't sing a lick either. At least not anything no human can tolerate. I did try a few growing up. I was asked to learn how to do something else! 

I envy all you guys!
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Tom

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Re: Why do they do this?
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2018, 10:53:52 AM »
Marty, I understand how you feel. I sang a cappella most of my life because I didn't play an instrument. 7 years ago I listened to a ukulele band practice and thought I'd buy a uke. Couldn't get anywhere with it until a long-time musician friend rang my doorbell and offered to teach me. He soon became the Band's Music Director, complementing his function as Music Director for an 80-voice mixed choir.

He subsequently started running ukulele beginners classes, which led to our Band growing from 8 players to 70 today. Turns out the uke is one of the easiest stringed instruments to learn to play, requiring no musical knowledge.
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Oldgator73

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Re: Why do they do this?
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2018, 11:14:10 AM »
When I was a really young kid in Daytona Beach my parents took my brother and me to the local music store. Do towns still have local music stores? Anyway, my parents said we could pick out any instrument we wanted and they would buy it for us and get us lessons. My brother chose the electric guitar. I chose the.....accordion. This was in the late 50's in Daytona Beach, Rock & roll, surfer music and I picked the accordion. I am still pissed at my parents for not talking me out of that. I could have had a guitar, a saxophone, drum set, but no, I picked the accordion. Ever try to pick up girls with the line "Hey, I'm in a band. Play the accordion."
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SeilerBird

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Re: Why do they do this?
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2018, 11:22:26 AM »
Hey Old Gator, Weird Al has sold millions of albums with his accordion. One of the biggest myths about being a musician is that it requires musical talent. Nothing could be further from the truth. If I were true I would never have played an instrument. I have no talent. In order to play any musical instrument all it takes is perseverance.  I can teach anyone to play any instrument they want but the problem is you have to really really really want it. Most people give up after a short time and claim they have no talent. In reality what they are saying is that they are too lazy to put in the time practicing. Starting out on any musical instrument is always disappointing because until you have trained your muscle memory you will sound horrible. You have to be willing to listen to playing horribly for a period of time in order to get to the point where you start making beautiful music.
I would like to apologize to anyone I have not yet offended. Please be patient and I will get to you shortly.
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Oldgator73

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Re: Why do they do this?
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2018, 11:46:51 AM »
I would love to be able to play the piano well enough to entertain folks. I would have mini concerts on Saturday evenings inviting friends and neighbors. I have room for a piano. And with a piano I don't think there would be much chance of folks trying to retune it.
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UTTransplant

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Re: Why do they do this?
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2018, 12:03:07 PM »
Ahh, but pianos do take tuning. The problem is you pay someone else a lot of money to do it! With a new piano, you have to tune every six months for a couple of years until the strings stop stretching  so much. Then you need to tune it at least once a year. If your home changes in humidity or temperature significantly, it can need tuning then too.

Adults pick up the piano much quicker than kids. Find a teacher with experience in teaching adults, and you can be playing quicker than you thought, particularly if you already read music.

(Written by someone who has a good ear and cringes whenever someone plays an out of tune piano. Mine is 20 years old now and only needs tuning once a year.)
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SeilerBird

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Re: Why do they do this?
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2018, 12:08:38 PM »
I would love to be able to play the piano well enough to entertain folks. I would have mini concerts on Saturday evenings inviting friends and neighbors. I have room for a piano. And with a piano I don't think there would be much chance of folks trying to retune it.
I can retune my piano easy. I can tune it up one octave or down one octave. It is called transposing and is a standard feature on most electric keyboards now. All you need to do is buy an electric keyboard like this one:

https://www.amazon.com/Plixio-Electric-Keyboard-Input-Portable/dp/B01AAPIPJW/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1517075877&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=electric+piano+keyboard&psc=1

And then start trying out beginners lessons on YouTube of which there are dozens like this one:

https://youtu.be/_Hj9v6pwTf8

Most music instructors make two mistake in teaching. First they want to show off how great they think they are. This only discourages students, it does not inspire most of them. And second they attempt to teach music theory and reading music first. That is a waste of time. There are two parts to learning an instrument, the physical part of playing the notes and the mental part of reading music. This is too much for a beginner. Forget the music theory and reading in the beginning and just learn the physical part of playing. Once you have learned some of the physical part then think about music theory.
I would like to apologize to anyone I have not yet offended. Please be patient and I will get to you shortly.
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UTTransplant

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Re: Why do they do this?
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2018, 01:00:36 PM »
A piano is a stringed instrument played by hammer strikes initiated by a keyboard press. Like any stringed instrument, a piano needs to be tuned. Transposing is not tuning. Transposing is the term used to apply a different key than what music what originally written in, like applying a capo to a guitar. You donít adjust a capo to tune a guitar; you tune using a tuning peg. That is equivalent to what a piano tuner does, though they also adjust the action of a piano when needed. Since each hammer hits 3 strings at once, it is a complicated piece of equipment.

An electric piano uses a simulation of the sound a real piano makes. Some electric pianos have a very good representation of the sound, some are pretty awful. It takes a expensive one to have the same type of action a real piano has. I would say most electric pianos/keyboards could transpose, but I have seen a number of inexpensive keyboards that canít.

Accuracy in terminology is important so that no one is misled.
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SeilerBird

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Re: Why do they do this?
« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2018, 01:12:45 PM »
That is a really picky distinction. Changing the pitch tunes something. Well my keyboard is able to change the pitch between -99 cents and +99 cents which is tuning.
I would like to apologize to anyone I have not yet offended. Please be patient and I will get to you shortly.
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8Muddypaws

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Re: Why do they do this?
« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2018, 02:52:02 PM »
When I was a really young kid in Daytona Beach my parents took my brother and me to the local music store. Do towns still have local music stores? Anyway, my parents said we could pick out any instrument we wanted and they would buy it for us and get us lessons. My brother chose the electric guitar. I chose the.....accordion. This was in the late 50's in Daytona Beach, Rock & roll, surfer music and I picked the accordion. I am still pissed at my parents for not talking me out of that. I could have had a guitar, a saxophone, drum set, but no, I picked the accordion. Ever try to pick up girls with the line "Hey, I'm in a band. Play the accordion."

It would work in Louisiana.
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Patnsuzanne

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Re: Why do they do this?
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2018, 06:57:23 PM »
I have to agree that perseverance is a great part of becoming a competent musician, but like a number of other than things, pure talent also plays a big part. I, as well as our three children have always been musically inclined. Iíve sung and played guitar for years. Older son played the French horn all through high school and college, along with the bass guitar.  Our daughter played the oboe and danced (ballet, tap,jazz, modern) from kindergarten through high school and sings every week with the church choir. The middle one, however, is one of those that seems to be able to pick up anything and make music. He played the bassoon all through high school and college, the sax, piano and is now playing a guitar and mandola and singing in an Irish music band on weekends.  He obviously enjoys it, but as his dad, I know heís not putting in the hours and hours of practice it would take for me to be able to pull that off. Just jealous, I guess. 🤨
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