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Author Topic: Excessive Tire Blowout - Passenger Dually  (Read 1493 times)

moose85003

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Excessive Tire Blowout - Passenger Dually
« on: January 26, 2018, 10:04:37 PM »
Hello Everyone,

I have a 2014 Class C Coachman Freelander 30'.  I seem to have an excessive amount of tire problems on the passenger dually side.  By excessive I mean that I have owned the RV for three years and just had my third separation issue with that same tire position.  The original tire that was on the RV when I purchased it (used) blew.  The first replacement separated after less than a year, and today I had the replacement of the replacement separate.  The tire that separated today is less than a year old and has less than 2k miles on it.  Prior to making this trip, as I do before every trip, I took the tire down and had them do a pressure check and fill the tire per specs at Discount Tire. I am going to take it into the service shop tomorrow but I didn't know if anyone else has had the same issue and what the cause seemed to be.  I love to take the family in the RV but it is getting to the point that I worry every time I take it out, a tire will blow. 


Thanks everyone,

Here is some additional information:

1) The RV is based on a Ford chassis (it is an E-450)
2) The Tires on there currently (including the one that separated) are Pathfinder LT 225/75 R16E.  This is the recommended size for the rig.
3)  Rear Tire pressure should be set to 80PSI.  I am assuming Discount filled them to this PSI but I am not sure.
4) The Gross Vehicle Weight Rating is 14,500 lbs.
5) Okay, and this one hurts to say.  TonyDtorch is correct.  Not always but there are stretches (including this latest trip) that I have driven it at 70mph.

The thing that has me puzzled is that it is always the same tire location, never any of the others.  It is always the inside passenger side dually.


Thanks for everyone's input.

Thanks,

Nate
« Last Edit: January 26, 2018, 10:54:32 PM by moose85003 »

2kGeorgieBoy

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Re: Excessive Tire Blowout - Passenger Dually
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2018, 10:13:35 PM »
A little more info may help get a better answer...like brand of tire, size, load rating, pressure being run at, etc. What size and load rating does your RV call for? Inside or outside dually? Maybe overloaded on one side of RV? Metal valve stems installed?
« Last Edit: January 26, 2018, 10:15:33 PM by 2kGeorgieBoy »
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TonyDtorch

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Re: Excessive Tire Blowout - Passenger Dually
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2018, 10:17:37 PM »
Most class C rigs are maxed out on axle/tire limits...and most class C drivers like to drive it 70+ down the highway (like it's a car).    Weight and Speed eat tires.

Try driving no faster than 60-65 and your tires will probably stop separating.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2018, 10:22:07 PM by TonyDtorch »

Arch Hoagland

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Re: Excessive Tire Blowout - Passenger Dually
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2018, 10:25:28 PM »
I have a friend who bought a Class C, not Coachman, and there was a recall on her tires that were on a Ford chassis.

Chassis make and model would help along with tire manufacturer and size. You may be entitled to some free tires.
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RVRAC

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Re: Excessive Tire Blowout - Passenger Dually
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2018, 10:43:16 PM »
Welcome to the forum.  I guess more information would be helpful, like what are the brand and size of the tires?  Have you weight your unit one loaded?  What speed to you drive your unit?
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JudyJB

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Re: Excessive Tire Blowout - Passenger Dually
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2018, 10:50:46 PM »
Check the website of the manufacturer of your tires.  I had two blowouts and got 7 new tires from Michelin as part of a recall in December, 2013.  Some of those tires may be on vehicles, and other manufacturers may have had recalls since then. 
Full-timing for over six years in a
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moose85003

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Re: Excessive Tire Blowout - Passenger Dually
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2018, 10:52:17 PM »
Thanks everyone,

Here is some additional information:

1) The RV is based on a Ford chassis (it is an E-450)
2) The Tires on there currently (including the one that separated) are Pathfinder LT 225/75 R16E.  This is the recommended size for the rig.
3)  Rear Tire pressure should be set to 80PSI.  I am assuming Discount filled them to this PSI but I am not sure.
4) The Gross Vehicle Weight Rating is 14,500 lbs.
5) Okay, and this one hurts to say.  TonyDtorch is correct.  Not always but there are stretches (including this latest trip) that I have driven it at 70mph.

The thing that has me puzzled is that it is always the same tire location, never any of the others.

Thanks for everyone's input.

Arch Hoagland

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Re: Excessive Tire Blowout - Passenger Dually
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2018, 12:31:54 AM »
I'd suggest getting a tire gauge and check all your tires for proper inflation. The inside dual can be low on air but you won't notice too much bulging because the other tire is holding it up.

If that inside dual is low on air it will overheat and eventually go bad.

Next I'd suggest getting an IR gun and shooting all the tires every time you stop. A tire consistently hotter than all the others is an indication of low air pressure. 

Never trust anybody other than yourself to check your tire air pressure.  It's your life riding on it, not theirs.

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jackiemac

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Re: Excessive Tire Blowout - Passenger Dually
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2018, 04:26:49 AM »
Firstly, I am no expert. I am thinking about an issue i had with my car where one tyre continually deflated. It turned out to be the wheel itself and once replaced it was fine.  Just something to think about.
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John From Detroit

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Re: Excessive Tire Blowout - Passenger Dually
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2018, 05:49:19 AM »
You said the rear tires shoudl be set to 80 PSI? Where did you get that number. You also Assumed the tire dealer set it to 80?

The proper way to set tire pressure is with a scale. You scale the wheel (Two tires in the case of duals) and then go to the tire manufacturer's  web page and look up the chart and inflate accordingly, many add 5 PSI (myself includd) to that.

Two, possibly three pressures all but guaranteed to be wrong (Very odd when they are not)
1: The sticker in the vehicle (Assumes a "Standard" load, which is very likly much lighter than you are loaded)
2: The molded in the side wall pressure.. Read the ENTIRE sentence, not just 80 psi max but Maximum load xxxx pounds at maximum pressure of yy PSI.
3: What the dealer put in the tire

Finally CHECK the pressure

RVsafety.com has links that will cause scales to come to you.. or you can use any segmented FLAT scale like at a scrap yard or selected truck stops.
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NY_Dutch

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Re: Excessive Tire Blowout - Passenger Dually
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2018, 06:36:51 AM »
Have the wheel checked for run out. Even a slightly bent wheel can cause the tire to overheat at highway speeds.
Dutch
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Ernie n Tara

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Re: Excessive Tire Blowout - Passenger Dually
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2018, 06:59:58 AM »
My money is on the wheel. Leak test and check for runout or rubbing between the tires on that dual.

The next probabilty is that the corner is overloaded. Weigh it! The inside dual does usually run hotter so it can be expected to fail first.

Ernie

Ps  Load rating is not given above, just as critical as size.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2018, 07:04:14 AM by Ernie n Tara »
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Rene T

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Re: Excessive Tire Blowout - Passenger Dually
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2018, 07:16:18 AM »
I would move that tire/wheel to the other side of the rig and see what happens. I'm wondering if maybe the tire is loosing air pressure because of a cracked wheel and only leaks when it gets super hot.
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sadixon49

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Re: Excessive Tire Blowout - Passenger Dually
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2018, 08:14:14 AM »
My money is on the wheel. Leak test and check for runout or rubbing between the tires on that dual.

The next probabilty is that the corner is overloaded. Weigh it! The inside dual does usually run hotter so it can be expected to fail first.

Ernie

Ps  Load rating is not given above, just as critical as size.

Load range is given, it's a load range E tire.

80 PSI is the tire sidewall rating, and the chassis label rating, but most if not all class C motorhomes operate so close to full loaded weight that reducing the tire pressure for the scaled weight is normally not required. I checked weights on my Redhawk and found I could reduce my pressure to 75#, but when I added the 5# fudge factor, I was right back at 80PSI.
steve
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2kGeorgieBoy

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Re: Excessive Tire Blowout - Passenger Dually
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2018, 08:23:31 AM »
I would recommend you think about the purchase of a TPMS kit. That way you can monitor the tire pressures and temps as you drive. Be sure you install metal valve stems with the system. We use the EEZ RV system but they are all good, just a matter of features, etc. Personally and not meant to be critical, but I think driving your "C" at 70 mph is pushing it. We have the same size in our Maverick and find that about 55-60 is comfortable and relaxing and gives the best mileage.
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'08 Polaris Touring LE ATV (mine)
'12 Polaris 550 XP ATV (wife's)
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Wheeldog

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Re: Excessive Tire Blowout - Passenger Dually
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2018, 09:24:43 AM »
Are you putting a new tire on every time? Putting a new tire on with one that is half wore out will cause problems. The new tire is bigger around than the other one and takes more weight than it should, which will cause it to blow. I own a trucking company and we are very careful about matching tires on duels when one goes flat.
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BIG JOE

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Re: Excessive Tire Blowout - Passenger Dually
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2018, 09:59:26 AM »
I would recommend you think about the purchase of a TPMS kit. That way you can monitor the tire pressures and temps as you drive. Be sure you install metal valve stems with the system. We use the EEZ RV system but they are all good, just a matter of features, etc. Personally and not meant to be critical, but I think [driving your "C" at 70 mph is pushing it.] We have the same size in our Maverick and find that about 55-60 is comfortable and relaxing and gives the best mileage.

[Try 62 MPH ?]

Are you putting a new tire on every time? Putting a new tire on with one that is half wore out will cause problems. The new tire is bigger around than the other one and takes more weight than it should, which will cause it to blow. I own a trucking company and we are very careful about matching tires on duels when one goes flat.

 :)) :))

And... Have that One wheel inspected to be sure its running True.. No Hop, No wobble ?
Joe

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TonyDtorch

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Re: Excessive Tire Blowout - Passenger Dually
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2018, 01:12:02 PM »
When you have the tire fixed this time have the guy put it on the other side....if that moves the problem... you've found the problem.

If you continue to have tire failures in that same spot,  it's likely that wheel is carrying more weight than the others.


Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Excessive Tire Blowout - Passenger Dually
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2018, 02:35:26 PM »
Some good suggestions here. Like Ernie's reply, a possible damaged wheel came immediately to my mind, followed by the diameter difference (see wheeldog's.  reply) of a new tire paired with a more worn one. The larger diameter tire carries a disproportionate share of the weight. Tire industry guidelines say that the difference in diameter should be less than 0.5", and preferably no more than 1/4". Third possibility is an imbalance (that side loaded more heavily, which ties in with my next thought (below).

The LT225/7516E is pretty well maxed out for carrying capacity. A typical tire of that size is rated for about 9600 lbs in a dual configuration (that's for 4 tires) and there is an excellent chance the rear axle on your coach is at or above that. The entire axle could be overweight, or just one side.
Gary
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KandT

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Re: Excessive Tire Blowout - Passenger Dually
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2018, 06:34:45 PM »
I had a 31 footer on the e450 and we packed pretty lightly.  When I put it on the scale we were 1000 over on the rear axle.  Are you towing anything that is adding weight to the rear?  The over hang can add more than one pound to the rear axle when you add one pound at the rear of the rig.

Cat scales look intimidating but just pull up and when they ask for a number just yell personal RV.  They might ask if this is first or second weigh.  Just yell First.  Go in and give them $10 bucks and get your read out.

Doesn't explain why it is always the same position.  Infrared guns are cheap (amazon) and easy to use.  Might be heating up from a sticking brake or something too.  An IR gun sure would give you a lot of information.
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Arch Hoagland

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Re: Excessive Tire Blowout - Passenger Dually
« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2018, 07:31:17 PM »
Something else came to mind seeings as how it the same location every time.

Have you checked your exhaust system to see if there is a leak very near the tire and overheating it?

Again an IR gun would tell you right away. 
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javandyke

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Re: Excessive Tire Blowout - Passenger Dually
« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2018, 08:34:43 PM »
Had a somewhat similar experience on a previously owned class C caused by a brake dragging and causing the wheel and tire to overheat.
Jim

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CharlesinGA

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Re: Excessive Tire Blowout - Passenger Dually
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2018, 09:18:13 PM »
Consider installing a set of Euro C tires on the rear. These are designed for the new vans (Promaster and Transit esp) that run very high wheel loadings. The tires are 225/75R16C They are not a light truck tire as in a LT225/75R16 but are heavier built than that and carry a higher load rating.

A standard LT (LT225/75R16/E 115/112R) in this size is rated to carry 2680 lbs at 80 PSI (single tire), 2470 lbs (Dual)

The Euro C tires of this same size (225/75R16C 121/120R) are rated to carry 3195 lbs at 83 PSI (single tire) 3085 lbs (dual) (The letter C has NOTHING to do with the load rating of the tire, like the E, F, G etc do, it signifies a Commercial/Cargo van tire.) Please read and understand this sentence carefully before making comments about how "load range C tires are not heavy enough".

The Michelin AGILIS® ALPIN®, the Nexten Roadian CT8 HL, Continental VancoFourSeason Highway Terrain tire, are the only ones I know of that are currently being made to this spec and are available in the US. Michelin has a Camper version of the AGILIS® ALPIN® (same Euro C tire, but different tread) but it is only available in Europe and Mexico (and elsewhere) and not in the US.

In any case, buy QUALITY tires (in pairs) and have that rim (with tire dismounted) spun on a wheel balancer to check it for true, and carefully inspect it. Also be sure to use proper 80 psi rated truck valve stems, not passenger car stems. Both are rubber but are made and look different.

Shorty high pressure valve stem https://www.tirerack.com/images/tires/tiretech/TPMS/TPMS-highpress_snapin.jpg vs standard car stem https://sc02.alicdn.com/kf/HTB19sDtOXXXXXbPXVXXq6xXFXXXb/Truck-Tire-Valve-Stem-Wheel-Bike-Car.jpg (sorry, this site does not allow displaying of external images, so you will have to click on the links to see the images, found on Google.)

Your current Pathfinder tires are the Discount Tire house brand, I won't say they are bad tires (I do not know) but I would suggest that there are better tires out there.

Another, although expensive, option is to convert the MH to Rickson 17.5 inch wheels and tires, which will give you tires rated to 3750/3530 lbs (single/dual)

https://ricksontruckwheels.com/wheels-ford-e350450.php

As others have noted, you should have a gauge and servicing tool that will allow you to properly check the pressures, measure the temps with an IR gun and do this yourself, before every trip, and on long trips, every week or so. I use Aligator caps that allow servicing thru the caps to avoid having to remove the caps, a 12 inch straight/back angle service chuck, and a long electronic gauge also with a straight/back angle chuck. Here are my recommendations for tire servicing tools.

http://www.rvforum.net/SMF_forum/index.php/topic,110691.msg997520.html#msg997520

Charles
« Last Edit: January 29, 2018, 09:52:16 PM by CharlesinGA »
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OLDRACER

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Re: Excessive Tire Blowout - Passenger Dually
« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2018, 11:53:18 AM »
Just a thought, the right side (inside) rear tire has the hardest job on a rig, if you run the rear off to the shoulder.  Often that tire is carrying the whole load if there is a couple inches between the asphalt  and the shoulder (vertically) for whatever period of time. Maybe  a 100% overload possible, not to mention possible jagged edge on the pavement. Then it has to climb back up that asphalt edge!
« Last Edit: January 30, 2018, 11:54:51 AM by OLDRACER »

blw2

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Re: Excessive Tire Blowout - Passenger Dually
« Reply #24 on: January 30, 2018, 03:41:29 PM »
I had a blowout on mine in that position.  the outer tire.  the tire had low miles and still looked like a new tread.  Only about 4 years old  It was a Michelin though and had some of that cracking.

Like has been mentioned already, my axle too is overloaded.... so the tires are overloaded slightly.  I'd bet that pretty much every 30-31 ft on an E chassis is.
Do you have a big slide on that side, or a big tank that could make that side even heavier than the other?

If you don't know what pressure the dealer put in it, then safe bet it was low.  Even if they did get it right, no guarantee it was later on.

I also agree that this tire has about the hardest job.  very likely to kiss curbs, run off the road, probably more potholes there.

If money is no object, take a look at
https://ricksontruckwheels.com/wheels-ford-e350450.php

I had to replace my tires in a hurry at the last blowout, but I figure I'll gear up to doing this swap out a couple years down the road....before I get to that 4 year or so mark...if we still have the coach.  Might just do the rear axle first, do it in stages.
Brad (DW + 3 kids)
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rls7201

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Re: Excessive Tire Blowout - Passenger Dually
« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2018, 08:57:45 PM »
Are you putting a new tire on every time? Putting a new tire on with one that is half wore out will cause problems. The new tire is bigger around than the other one and takes more weight than it should, which will cause it to blow. I own a trucking company and we are very careful about matching tires on duels when one goes flat.

Wheeldog has the answer to your problem. Read his post closely and do as he says.


TonyDtorch

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Re: Excessive Tire Blowout - Passenger Dually
« Reply #26 on: January 30, 2018, 09:10:41 PM »
I just keep thinking about that little bitty set of maxed out 16" dual wheels.... going 75 mph down a hot blacktop highway.

I've melted truck tires before... I wouldn't try it.

 

« Last Edit: January 30, 2018, 09:20:23 PM by TonyDtorch »