storage and tongue weight

I am very conscious of all the information about proper weight loads. I have been analyzing it all probably more than most over the last year trying to determine the proper loads and what combination of truck and trailer we could buy.  This forum has been a great help. But I am not sure I have seen this question. It is directed at the anal type like myself who have done the hard calculations. But I am not sure I have seen this discussed although it is probably somewhere. As I look at all the weights, mostly tongue and the impact it has on payload of the TV I wonder if anyone has calculated the impact of the two main up front storage areas on the tongue weight. As we look at TTs, most of them have large storage under the bed and the exterior storage pass through also up front. As I try and calculate "safe margins" going forward is there any kind of rough ratio of what I store in those two areas and direct impact it has on tongue weight since they are so far forward? One to one or less? I have seen countless comments about going to a scale and getting everything weighed but, in our case, that is the cart in front of the horse, as we don't have the TT or TV yet, although we are getting close. I need to do the calculations up front and not after the fact when it is too late. It seems those two storage areas will have a tremendous impact on the tongue and rule out quite a few combinations or negate carrying much of anything in the truck.  Thanks for any guidance here.

A good part of that will be the percentage of tongue weight of an empty trailer. The trailer may have a very light unloaded tongue weight, or a very heavy. A toy hauler is a good example of this. They generally have heavy tongue/pin weights unloaded because they know the owner will be putting a good bit of weight behind the axles. Another part would be how and where you load stuff in the trailer. Stuff loaded directly over the axles will change the "balance" of the trailer very little, and naturally stuff behind the axles shifts the balance off of the tongue. Vice versa loading in front of the axles as you described. There is a way to figure it out mathematically, but I couldn't tell you how to do it correctly. 

bltravels said:

As I look at all the weights, mostly tongue and the impact it has on payload of the TV I wonder if anyone has calculated the impact of the two main up front storage areas on the tongue weight. As we look at TTs, most of them have large storage under the bed and the exterior storage pass through also up front. As I try and calculate "safe margins" going forward is there any kind of rough ratio of what I store in those two areas and direct impact it has on tongue weight since they are so far forward? One to one or less?

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Yes, this can be somewhat of a guessing game for sure. If you know what you will carry in those front compartments, you could weight it all and calculate a somewhat accurate figure by measuring from the compartment forward to the tongue and likewise, rearwards to the axles. The ratio of tongue to axle will give you the approximate weight (4' to the tongue and 12' to the axles means 3/4 of the weight goes to the tongue).

We have friends that also have a Keystone Hideout 5th wheel which is identical to ours from the entrance door forward. However, while we have a large storage compartment in the rear (under a step up to the bunks), they do not in their opposing slide rear living room floor plan. With comparable base weights, I have less pin weight since I load lighter stuff upfront and leave the leveling blocks, tool box, and such heavier items for the rear compartment.

5W have a substantial cargo area up front and that is one of the reasons that a typical 5w will have 20-25% of its gross weight on the hitch.  Travel trailers generally have much less storage up front, plus they also tend to have at least one water tank behind the axles (sometimes all three tanks).  So yes, cargo stowage space & weight have a direct impact and explain some of the variances you see or hear about.  When we talk about percentages, it's a general rule of thumb and not an exact figure for every rig. Years of experience, though, show that the rule of thumb percentages are a good guide when a specific tow vehicle and trailer have not yet been loaded and weighed. You do as much as you can with the info you have...

Can I add that you'll get a lot of straight answers here from a lot of experienced people. DON'T rely on anything you hear from either the RV dealer or the TV dealer. Their primary mission in life is to sell you an RV or a TV. I'm sure there are some straight shooters out there, but be very careful. Also, like most things, don't over analyze the situation.

Joezeppy said:

The ratio of tongue to axle will give you the approximate weight (4' to the tongue and 12' to the axles means 3/4 of the weight goes to the tongue).

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Pretty much this. It's called a second-class lever. You can look up the formulas and walk-throughs of the calculations if you use that search term.