Questions about Reflection 312BHTS

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The_Grey_Wolf

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Jun 8, 2016
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Location
New England
Hey Everyone,

I?m going to upgrade to a 2018 Grand Design Reflection 312BHTS this week. We are all season campers and love the features.

However, I?ve noticed a few things in my shopping, not all 312BHTS?s are the same!  There are units with different paint jobs (frost white front vs sleek black),  different refrigerators, and different layouts in the back bunkhouse room.

Can anyone provide any insight into this?  The prices don?t appear different as far as MSRP goes. The GD website shows the one I want (and saw at other dealers).

https://www.granddesignrv.com/showroom/2018/travel-trailer/reflection/floorplans/312bhts

This is one that I saw today:

http://www.vermontcountrycampers.com/product/new-2018-grand-design-reflection-312bhts-611807-29

Why are they different?

Thanks in advance!
 
Don't know for sure but I suspect they run our of parts/materials and the line has to keep running so they use what is available.

Not sure if you know that the Astrofoil/Thermofoil manufacture claim adds R7- R11 to the insulation is only R1...no more than a sheet of stretch wrap.

The insulation in the roof would need to be 12" thick to achieve R40 that GD claims the roof is but the trusses are 5" deep.   
 
Differences in floor plans could be leftover 2017's or even early model 2019's. I haven't looked at Grand Design's website for a long time, but some manufacturers have and East coast and West coast models.
 
ALLOY said:
Don't know for sure but I suspect they run our of parts/materials and the line has to keep running so they use what is available.

Not sure if you know that the Astrofoil/Thermofoil manufacture claim adds R7- R11 to the insulation is only R1...no more than a sheet of stretch wrap.

The insulation in the roof would need to be 12" thick to achieve R40 that GD claims the roof is but the trusses are 5" deep. 
Click to expand...

Alloy, my question was related to the different layouts of the units I saw, I'm not sure why you went where you did.

That being said, I'm interested, but I'd need to see some evidence for your claim.  My understanding is that thickness isn't as important as the type of material.  I used to work in the sleeping bag / sleeping pad section of REI.  We sold dozens of different sleeping pads with different R values.  For example, our 3.5" house brand sleeping pad had an R-Value of 6, while a 3.9" Exped sleeping pad had an R-Value of 9.5.  It wasn't the .4" that increased the value by 3.5, it was the open cell synthetic fill that increased the R value so dramatically.

After reviewing the GD site, it looks like the R Value claim is the summation of layers.  The side walls use rigid foam rather than fiberglass.  The floor has the radiant foil, coupled with a layer of fiberglass; the site notes that slideroom floors are R-24, not R-30.  The front cap and roof are rated at R-40 and looks to be the result of a layer of radiant foil, fiberglass, and then sealed in by wood, and eventually topped off by a one piece fiberglass roof.

There have been a few studies of radiant layers combined with fiberglass insulation and one shows that a layer of R-19 with a foil radiant barrier has the same affect as R-30 insulation.  Another study done by an energy center in Florida showed that R-19 with a foil radiant barrier produced lower energy demands than an R-30 insulation layer alone.

I wouldn't put it past some brands to lie about their unit performance, but Winnebago and Grand Design seem to be a cut above and wouldn't want to lose their reputation.
 
You may want to check on the Grand Design Owner's Forum for some real world answers.

Like many or most manufacturers, GD does make changes at any time in a specific model year and often make more planned mid-year changes. When we purchased our 2015 Reflection I was aware of certain mid-year changes I insisted on in my new unit so when I went to my nearby GD dealer and they only had an earlier year build on their lot I just insisted on ordering a new build and it, of course, arrived with the newer changes I wanted.

Best of luck with your search and decision.

BTW, this is our 6th and favorite RV in the last 40 years.
 
Poppy, thank you so much for the feedback.  I ended up calling Grand Design customer support and they were confused to say the least.  The lady I spoke to gave me a similar explanation to what you said, that there was something changed in the production along the way.  She did say that the exterior color pattern, the fridge, and the garage bunk were all 2017 model specific. 

She placed me in touch with a dealership just outside of Syracuse that has the exact model/color/design that I'm looking for; and we exchanged info.  Looks like I'll be heading up there within the next week to get it.

I'm glad to hear you love your Reflection!  I look forward to many adventures in mine.
 
The_Grey_Wolf said:
Alloy, my question was related to the different layouts of the units I saw, I'm not sure why you went where you did.

That being said, I'm interested, but I'd need to see some evidence for your claim.  My understanding is that thickness isn't as important as the type of material.  I used to work in the sleeping bag / sleeping pad section of REI.  We sold dozens of different sleeping pads with different R values.  For example, our 3.5" house brand sleeping pad had an R-Value of 6, while a 3.9" Exped sleeping pad had an R-Value of 9.5.  It wasn't the .4" that increased the value by 3.5, it was the open cell synthetic fill that increased the R value so dramatically.

After reviewing the GD site, it looks like the R Value claim is the summation of layers.  The side walls use rigid foam rather than fiberglass.  The floor has the radiant foil, coupled with a layer of fiberglass; the site notes that slideroom floors are R-24, not R-30.  The front cap and roof are rated at R-40 and looks to be the result of a layer of radiant foil, fiberglass, and then sealed in by wood, and eventually topped off by a one piece fiberglass roof.

There have been a few studies of radiant layers combined with fiberglass insulation and one shows that a layer of R-19 with a foil radiant barrier has the same affect as R-30 insulation.  Another study done by an energy center in Florida showed that R-19 with a foil radiant barrier produced lower energy demands than an R-30 insulation layer alone.

I wouldn't put it past some brands to lie about their unit performance, but Winnebago and Grand Design seem to be a cut above and wouldn't want to lose their reputation.
Click to expand...


The mentioned of refrigerators and paint jobs sent me off in the direction I went.  I know a guy that ran a production line for 14 year as product ran out they'd have to change things on the fly.


When it is a bright sunny day and below 60F day the radiant foils stop the radiant heat from the sun entering / heating the trailer.

When it is a bright sunny day and 90F the radiant foils stop the radiant heat from the sun entering / heating the trailer.  It is this scenario that the foil manufacture use to make the insulation claims.


If it is 90F outside with the trailer in the sun I'd want to have a radiant foil in the walls (it is 99% useless in slide floors and under the tanks) and ceiling of my trailer but if it was below 60F and the trailer was in the sun I wouldn't want any radiant foil in the trailer.


http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/musings/radiant-barriers-solution-search-problem

http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/musings/stay-away-foil-faced-bubble-wrap









 
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