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Author Topic: 3 phase camp site wiring  (Read 2391 times)

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: 3 phase camp site wiring
« Reply #30 on: February 15, 2018, 11:12:06 AM »
Well, it should be evident by now that w5kgt (Kevin) has more than sufficient skills to do the job.  Probably more than many of those who answered.  Sorry for the earlier confusion!

I'm still unclear on just what is being changed or added in this park, since it already has at least some 50A sites. Is it that existing 50A only pedestals are being replaced with 50/30/20 style? Or are more 50A being added?  If simply replacing the existing 50A pedestals, there is already a 4-wire supply to the site and no change in the max load.  But if replacing a existing 30A [only] with a 50/30/20, than the service to the site has to increase from 10 gauge to 6 gauge and 4 wires vs 3, and the max load increases from 3600 watts (120c x 30A) to 12,000 watts (240v x 50A).  But you know that already...

I'm also sure you are aware that you have to have a neutral to each site pedestal, so a 3-phase, 3-2ire source would need to gain a neutral somewhere along the line and become 4-wire.

I've worked at several campgrounds and did extensive wiring repairs & upgrades at two of them that were older and/or improperly wired to begin with. The two that I worked on that had 3-phase power to the park handled the power distribution in  the same manner: The main source supplied multiple 200A load centers and each 200A panel supplied 5 sites with 50A service. The 30A & 20A outlets in that 50A site pedestal are tapped off one of the 50A legs, so do not add to the total load. Supplying 5 x 50A outlets from 1 x 200A panel is the standard 80% load assumption permitted in the NEC, i.e. each outlet is assumed to average only 80% of its rated capacity.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2018, 11:14:31 AM by Gary RV_Wizard »
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Jim18655

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Re: 3 phase camp site wiring
« Reply #31 on: February 15, 2018, 05:19:06 PM »
Deleted since there were several posts while I was typing.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2018, 05:21:40 PM by Jim18655 »

TonyDtorch

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Re: 3 phase camp site wiring
« Reply #32 on: February 16, 2018, 01:22:47 PM »
He can't type now... he's probably got wire soap all over his hands from pulling four lines of 4 or 6 gauge wire through some 3" schedule 80 PVC.

( I had a J card from IBEW local 11 )
« Last Edit: February 16, 2018, 01:35:14 PM by TonyDtorch »

John Hilley

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Re: 3 phase camp site wiring
« Reply #33 on: February 16, 2018, 03:10:44 PM »
This is a good discussion of RV parks, 208 volts and NEC 551

http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=155244
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xrated

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Re: 3 phase camp site wiring
« Reply #34 on: February 16, 2018, 04:15:03 PM »
So, here is a question that is "back on topic" to some extent.  I have a T.H. and it is like most of the trailers/T.H./motorcoaches out there that use the traditional 120/240 volt feed from the campground pedestals.  So my question is this.....Are there a good number of higher end coaches or ?? that actually use 240 volts instead of the typical 50A 120 volt type system?  Or, do the manufacturers of these high end coaches that put 240 stuff in there caution or warn against using them on a 208 type campground feed?

I can't imagine that it is a huge problem nationwide, but then again, I don't have anything in my T.H. that uses 240 volts for proper operation.
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Lou Schneider

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Re: 3 phase camp site wiring
« Reply #35 on: February 16, 2018, 04:57:00 PM »
Most stuff that uses 240 volts uses it to produce heat, and the only thing that will happen when using a heating element at a lower voltage is it will put out less heat.  A 240 volt clothes dryer will take a little longer to dry your clothes on 208 volts, an electric range with a step type control (low-medium-high heat) will run a little cooler at each setting.  Most likely the differences will be barely noticeable, if at all.  An electric stove with a continuous thermostatic control won't be affected except it will put out a little less heat at absolute high.

The only thing to be careful about is a 240 volt air conditioner, but even here there isn't enough difference between the voltages to worry about.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2018, 05:00:36 PM by Lou Schneider »

Oldgator73

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Re: 3 phase camp site wiring
« Reply #36 on: February 16, 2018, 05:44:34 PM »
We lived in Japan for a number of years. The power on base was 120 but it was 50 cycle instead of 60 cycle. The microwave worked but made an awful BONG! noise. And the electric clocks lost 10 minutes every hour.
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Tom

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Re: 3 phase camp site wiring
« Reply #37 on: February 16, 2018, 06:26:41 PM »
Quote from: Oldgator73
The microwave worked but made an awful BONG! noise. And the electric clocks lost 10 minutes every hour.

LOL we lived in the UK for 32 years; "Mains" power there is 240V, 50 cps (Hz). It used to be fun to have folks relocate from California and vice versa and want to take their favorite electronics with them. In those days, folks' music came from 'turntables' that needed a change of pulley/gear wheel to get the music to play at the right speed.
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Re: 3 phase camp site wiring
« Reply #38 on: February 16, 2018, 07:22:59 PM »
Most stuff that uses 240 volts uses it to produce heat, and the only thing that will happen when using a heating element at a lower voltage is it will put out less heat.  A 240 volt clothes dryer will take a little longer to dry your clothes on 208 volts, an electric range with a step type control (low-medium-high heat) will run a little cooler at each setting.  Most likely the differences will be barely noticeable, if at all.  An electric stove with a continuous thermostatic control won't be affected except it will put out a little less heat at absolute high.

The only thing to be careful about is a 240 volt air conditioner, but even here there isn't enough difference between the voltages to worry about.

Thanks for clearing that up for me Lou.  Like I said, I've never had anything RV related that used 240 volts and was wondering how the RV's that do use it managed to make it work in the 208 volt, 3 phase wired parks.  It makes perfect sense that the only things that need it would be heat producing items.
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NY_Dutch

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Re: 3 phase camp site wiring
« Reply #39 on: February 16, 2018, 07:36:36 PM »
Thanks for clearing that up for me Lou.  Like I said, I've never had anything RV related that used 240 volts and was wondering how the RV's that do use it managed to make it work in the 208 volt, 3 phase wired parks.  It makes perfect sense that the only things that need it would be heat producing items.

There are very few RV's that use 240 for anything as built. Some high end all electric coaches do, as well as a few after market conversions, particularly those with residential clothes dryers, but that's about it. There's even a couple of high end RV's that need two 50 amp connections to support all their gadgets...
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Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: 3 phase camp site wiring
« Reply #40 on: February 17, 2018, 07:40:46 AM »
As Dutch says, there are some few coaches that actually employ 240v power. It used to be only the Prevost/Newel class of coach, but as all-electric becomes more popular, use of 240v for electric dryers and cooktops is becoming more widespread. Several months ago I even encountered a 2017 Tiffin Phaeton equipped for that.
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Re: 3 phase camp site wiring
« Reply #41 on: February 17, 2018, 08:25:28 PM »
Most 208 I've run across is up around 210 to 212, electric driers only use one leg for the drier motor and that's 120volt so just like a cook range 208 is no problem they will just draw a little more amperage on the heating elements. If you look real close there are a loot of things rated  208, 220, 240.

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TonyDtorch

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Re: 3 phase camp site wiring
« Reply #42 on: February 18, 2018, 10:05:33 AM »
As Dutch says, there are some few coaches that actually employ 240v power. It used to be only the Prevost/Newel class of coach, but as all-electric becomes more popular, use of 240v for electric dryers and cooktops is becoming more widespread. Several months ago I even encountered a 2017 Tiffin Phaeton equipped for that.
I'd think a Prevost or a Newell has an incorrect voltage protection built into their electrical systems.