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Author Topic: GCWR-GVWR=4000 lbs. Toad brake question  (Read 725 times)

_Rusty_

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GCWR-GVWR=4000 lbs. Toad brake question
« on: February 22, 2018, 06:41:09 PM »
Potential newbie looking at large motorhome purchase (38'). Considering the 4000 lb difference above, my question is about aux braking (brake buddy or the like).

Can I consider that I have improved the weight capacity with such a device, or is this just too heavy to tow a 3500 lb CRV safely?

Thanks for all the great info found here!

Rusty
bill & ilean
2004 Tiffen Allegro Bay 37db
Workhorse 8.1/Allison 1000
Near Punxsutawney, PA
(for now)

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: GCWR-GVWR=4000 lbs. Toad brake question
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2018, 07:06:28 PM »
Not sure what your question is. The brakes on the coach are rated to stop the GVWR. If you tow anything, that "anything" needs to have its own brakes.

The GCWR is the combined weight of coach and whatever you tow. Braking is not part of the GCWR criteria - it's just the mechanical ability to tow, hitch & drivetrain.  You could put the biggest brakes in the world on the toad or trailer but the GCWR doesn't change.
Gary
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Summers: Black Mountain, NC
Home: Ocala National Forest, FL

_Rusty_

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Re: GCWR-GVWR=4000 lbs. Toad brake question
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2018, 07:19:53 PM »
So based on your example I can tow a 3500 lb car and have 500 lbs for liquids and luggage. Sounds like this RV is not meant to tow a car.
bill & ilean
2004 Tiffen Allegro Bay 37db
Workhorse 8.1/Allison 1000
Near Punxsutawney, PA
(for now)

garyb1st

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Re: GCWR-GVWR=4000 lbs. Toad brake question
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2018, 10:00:16 PM »
Not necessarily.  What's the gross vehicle weight rating and gross combined weight rating of your motorhome.  Mine is 22,000 lbs and 26,000 lbs respectively.  My hitch rating is 5,000.  So in my case, I can tow my 4,650 lb Jeep, based on the hitch rating.  But if I do, I have to reduce the amount of STUFF I can take in the motorhome.  First, weigh your motorhome loaded and ready for travel.  Then subtract that weight from your motorhomes gross vehicle weight rating.  That's how much you can tow.  Remember, you still don't want to exceed the hitch rating. 

My coach weighs just over 21,000 lbs when we travel.  That's myself, my wife, fuel, water, propane and STUFF.  That leaves 5,000 lbs for the Jeep. 
Gary B1st

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2016 Jeep Wrangler


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Re: GCWR-GVWR=4000 lbs. Toad brake question
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2018, 07:08:24 AM »
An Aux braking system like the Ready Brake shortens your stopping distance and reduces wear on the more expenisve RV brakes at the expense of the less expensive towed btakes.

I DO NOT RECOMMEND THE BRAKE BUDDY due to the need to install it EVERY time you tow and stow it, Securly, when driving the towed, that isd a lot of work. A Whole lot of work.

It does not, however, affect how much you can tow. so no, you cvasn not tow 10,000 pounds of trailer (Car 9in tow = Trailer)
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jagnweiner

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Re: GCWR-GVWR=4000 lbs. Toad brake question
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2018, 07:51:06 AM »
What is the particular motorhome you're looking at?
-Scott
2000 Itasca Horizon 36LD

_Rusty_

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Re: GCWR-GVWR=4000 lbs. Toad brake question
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2018, 03:47:57 PM »
What is the particular motorhome you're looking at?
We have an offer in on a Tiffen Allegro Bay 37db. GVWR=22000. GCWR=26000. UVW=18,600.

My original concern is stopping.  I assumed the total weight to STOP is the restriction and thought if I installed some brake system into the toad I could discount that weight from the RV stopping requirement.  I think we will be OK given the specs, and probably should add supplemental braking to augment the safety concern.


An Aux braking system like the Ready Brake shortens your stopping distance and reduces wear on the more expenisve RV brakes at the expense of the less expensive towed btakes.

I DO NOT RECOMMEND THE BRAKE BUDDY due to the need to install it EVERY time you tow and stow it, Securly, when driving the towed, that isd a lot of work. A Whole lot of work.

It does not, however, affect how much you can tow. so no, you cvasn not tow 10,000 pounds of trailer (Car 9in tow = Trailer)

What other types of braking systems are out there?
bill & ilean
2004 Tiffen Allegro Bay 37db
Workhorse 8.1/Allison 1000
Near Punxsutawney, PA
(for now)

grashley

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Re: GCWR-GVWR=4000 lbs. Toad brake question
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2018, 07:06:47 PM »
Thank you for the numbers!

The UVW is the RV weight as it left the factory.  The weight of dealer installed options are not included.  If this number is from literature, then factory options may not be included either.

Assuming UVW is correct, GVWR is the most the COACH can weigh when it crosses a scale.  In other words, you may add 3400 lbs of food, water, clothes, tools, lawn chairs, toys and people AND TONGUE WT.  (See below.)

GCWR is the most the coach and whatever it is towing may weigh.  If the coach is loaded to capacity, then any toad or trailer is limited to 4,000 lbs.  HOWEVER,  If the coach is only carrying 2400# of stuff, then you can handle a 5,000# toad.  26K GCWR minus 21K actual coach wt = 5,000 for a toad.

You must meet each weight limit, but if one is less, the other may be more.

The coach brakes are intended to stop the coach ONLY!  Any toad or trailer over about 3000# REQUIRES SEPARATE BRAKES.  This varies by state.  Some are as low as 1500#, most are 3000# or less.  You must abide by the laws of the state you are in at any given time. Toad brakes are required by most state laws, required by the laws of Physics, and required by the rules of good sense.

**Tongue Wt **  Any trailer or toad will place weight on the back of the coach, on the ball.   This becomes part of the weight of the coach.  For a conventional trailer, this will be 10% - 12% of the weight of the trailer.  For a toad, it is only the weight of the receiver and part of the weight of the hitch - less than 100#  The toad "carries its' own weight" with respect to tongue wt.
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_Rusty_

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Re: GCWR-GVWR=4000 lbs. Toad brake question
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2018, 04:10:03 PM »
A couple weeks ago I asked these questions regarding weight and towing, and didn`t just rely on respones here.  I placed a call to Pennsylvania State Police Weights & Measures Enforcement. You know, those guys pulling the big rigs over for inspections along the highways.  Well, they called back today (suprise) and tried to answer my questions.

His overall response was 'privare motorhomes are exempt from any weight classifications or restrictions, only commercial vehicles must comply'.  He went on to say that while aux. brake systems for your toad are a good idea, they are not required.

I`m sure other states probably require lots of things, but I wanted you to know PA is not one of them.

Am going to test drive the unit this weekend, and may be an owner soon!
bill & ilean
2004 Tiffen Allegro Bay 37db
Workhorse 8.1/Allison 1000
Near Punxsutawney, PA
(for now)

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: GCWR-GVWR=4000 lbs. Toad brake question
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2018, 04:22:25 PM »
Thanks for reporting that.  It's been debated here numerous times, but the braking equipment laws frequently cited on RVing sites and in toad brake ads are in fact trailer tows laws. Most states have separate towing laws that apply specifically to towed cars.

As many of us say here, "State laws may differ, but the laws of physics still apply everywhere". You will always stop in a shorter distance if you have an auxiliary (toad) brake.
Gary
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Gary Brinck
Summers: Black Mountain, NC
Home: Ocala National Forest, FL

retusn

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Re: GCWR-GVWR=4000 lbs. Toad brake question
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2018, 09:10:21 PM »
You will receive and have received different answers.  You did ask about aux braking systems.  Many different types.  One of the posters stated that the RV brakes are made to stop the RV.  That is true with almost every vehicle.  I always wanted to make sure that I could stop both the RV and toad so I installed an AUX system.  I have needed it and they do work.  SAFETY is always a good thing.