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Author Topic: Newbies Here ... With A LOADED Question! (Be Nice)  (Read 1274 times)

Newbies Here ... With A LOADED Question! (Be Nice)
« on: February 24, 2018, 08:15:16 PM »
We're newbies. Plain and simple. New ... Bees.

... and we're going from never to full time right out of the gates!

My wife and I are motorcycle journalists who just started a new website, hence the screen name.

We need help selecting a toy hauler for full time RV living!

After a lot of research, here's what we know we want:

- 5th wheel for a long bed, 1/2 - 3/4 ton pickup
- less than 35' long (at the box, 31' preferred)
- under 13' high (closer to 12' preferred)
- separate garage
- can easily carry two sport bikes + tools, roughly 1500 lbs
- pop outs for live/work-space

We're looking at this from home buyer perspectives which lacks the familiarity everyone here has.

Our concerns come down to BRAND. We just looked at the "KZ Sportster" and were inspired but further review suggests they are known to have serious problems.

We originally were considering Keystone and their reviews seem more solid.

So, without any pride in tow (get it?) ...

Which brands have what it takes to keep us feeling safe and secure, a sound investment that isn't prone to failure?

steveblonde

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Re: Newbies Here ... With A LOADED Question! (Be Nice)
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2018, 09:58:22 PM »
To answer some of your questions if i may
A - get a 1 ton 2500s dont have a the payload toy haulers are nose heavy
B 35 ft is short for a toyhauler because the garage at 10-16 ft takes up alot of space
C most toy haulers at 13ft 2 inches

I love my voltage the rest is personal preferance - good luck
2015 Voltage 3305 Toy Hauler - loaded
2014 F150 Ecoboost Reg cab (company truck) daily driver
2017 Black on Black F350 Diesel Dually loaded  5167lbs cargo/weight capacity
Selling truck parts for 15 yrs plus
" If you're not living on the edge you're taking up too much space"
From Canada Eh

UTTransplant

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  • Cedar Falls, Iowa
Re: Newbies Here ... With A LOADED Question! (Be Nice)
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2018, 11:06:36 PM »
Only small fifth wheels can be towed by a 3/4 ton truck. Like steveblone says, you need a 1 ton. It isn’t the “tow capacity” but the bed weight.
Pam and Kevin plus Lily the cat
2018 Tiffin 37PA
2018 Jeep Grand Cherokee Trailhawk toad
https://toobusyforwork.com

SeilerBird

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  • Everything I state is my opinion.
Re: Newbies Here ... With A LOADED Question! (Be Nice)
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2018, 05:38:55 AM »
Yep you need a one ton. A 3/4 just doesn't have the guts to do the job.
I would like to apologize to anyone I have not yet offended. Please be patient and I will get to you shortly.
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Ernie n Tara

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  • Life is Good - Together
Re: Newbies Here ... With A LOADED Question! (Be Nice)
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2018, 08:41:02 AM »
"Investment" is not a word that is applicable to RV's, they depreciate like a falling rock, and require significant investment in upkeep. I average about $3, 500 per year plus fuel, park rental, etc and thats for a properly maintained MH that had less than 4, 000 miles on it when I bought it about  year and a half old.

The comments about getting a 3500 truck are also correct and even there you'll have to be careful with a large toy hauler. Carrying capacity, from the yellow sticker on the door jam not a brochure,  is the critical rating for a fiver not tow rating.

Ernie
Ernie 'n Tara

2011 Winn Journey 34y
2012 Jeep Rubicon - Dozer (orange - kinda)
2006 Jeep Wrangler

UTTransplant

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  • Cedar Falls, Iowa
Re: Newbies Here ... With A LOADED Question! (Be Nice)
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2018, 10:57:06 AM »
Oh, and since the OP is a self-declared newbie, let me state for the record something we all know here: the vast majority of RV sales folk lie about towing capacity. If you ask them if you can tow a fifth wheel 35’ toy hauler with a half ton truck they will say “Sure, no problem! Let’s write up that deal right now.”  They will be violating the manuracturer’s guidelines, stressing the truck, and pretty much guaranteeing a problem for the full timer the OP plans on being, but they won’t care. They will be many miles away and they will have made the sale.
Pam and Kevin plus Lily the cat
2018 Tiffin 37PA
2018 Jeep Grand Cherokee Trailhawk toad
https://toobusyforwork.com

Randy328

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Re: Newbies Here ... With A LOADED Question! (Be Nice)
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2018, 12:36:36 PM »
- 5th wheel for a long bed, 1/2 - 3/4 ton pickup
- less than 35' long (at the box, 31' preferred)
- under 13' high (closer to 12' preferred)
- separate garage
- can easily carry two sport bikes + tools, roughly 1500 lbs
- pop outs for live/work-space

Our concerns come down to BRAND. We just looked at the "KZ Sportster" and were inspired but further review suggests they are known to have serious problems.

I currently have a KZ and love it. Second KZ, have had minimal issues with either. Two friends also had the same trailer, no major issues. Mine is a travel trailer, but I can't see how a 5th wheel would be much different construction wise. I carry three sportbikes and a pit bike. Unfortunately, the model/floorplan I have is no longer available. So, don't shy away from KZ, but of course, YMMV.

Agree on what others say about the truck. 5th wheel, you'd really need a 1 ton once you get it loaded. Do the math from the stickers and max trailer weights, don't believe anyone telling you it will be fine if they haven't done the math.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2018, 12:38:19 PM by Randy328 »
2015 Ford F250
2016 KZ MXT2920
Bunch of motorcycles
German Shepherd "Qorkey"

RedandSilver

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Re: Newbies Here ... With A LOADED Question! (Be Nice)
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2018, 08:48:56 PM »
SINCE you are newbies I will give you something to think about.

Skip the truck and toy hauler and ...........

Get a Motorhome and a trailer for the bikes.  Then you won't be upgrading over and over and over until you get
to what I just suggested.

I do that now.  With a trailer you have a garage for the bikes and don't give up any living space when the bikes
are covered in a covered trailer. 

Quote
My wife and I are motorcycle journalists

Since you are the above ^^^ you should be able to live life with motorcycles only (like I do) and post about life on the road with
only bikes to get around on.

A MH is usually going to be better quality then most toy haulers IMO.

When traveling you don't have to get out of a MH when it's raining cats and dogs like you do with a truck and toy hauler (TH).
Your wife (or you) could make lunch while going down the road - can't do that with a TH

My MH is 40ft and 12ft high.  I carry 2 bikes and tools in my trailer plus other stuff like a tire changer etc.
IF I want to take only one bike I have a motorcycle lift on the back of the MH.

IF you don't have a 1 ton truck now that would save you from having to buy one.
My MH is older but was in very good shape and cost me less that what a new truck would have cost.  It's a diesel so will pull
my trailer with no problem anywhere I want to go.

I was in your shoes somewhat and had never owned a RV of any type and went straight to a 40ft DP and I have been in it almost
3 months straight with maybe 2 more to go before I return home.
And I don't have to share any of my living space with my bikes and other equipment like you will with a 5er.

So you can buy a 1 ton truck and a toy hauler and still not be as comfortable as I am with my setup.

You did say you were NEWBIES and thought a toy hauler and truck was the answer.  But I'm trying to save you time and money
by saying there is another way to do what you want to do.  You might not think it's right for you, but IMO you should do yourself a favor
and at least check it out.  IF you do that and decide it's not for you - so be it.  But if you never look into it you might regret it someday, JMO

All I can tell you is I like what I have and do not think for one minute that I would be happier with a TH and truck.
2002 Rexhall Rose Air  Cummins 8.3  350hp
West MI Summer   Central FL Winter

grashley

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  • Western KY for now.
Re: Newbies Here ... With A LOADED Question! (Be Nice)
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2018, 09:50:45 PM »
First, WELCOME TO THE FORUM!

With respect to sales people:

http://www.rvforum.net/SMF_forum/index.php/topic,90933.0.html

There is not a stock ½ ton truck available to pull a 35 ft FW (Fifth Wheel) and still carry passengers.
¾ ton trucks have a GVWR of 10,000# and a very limited payload, typically 2000# - 2500#.  This includes all passengers, cargo, tools and firewood carried in the truck, plus FW pin wt.  A FW places 20% of its weight directly into the bed of the truck via "pin wt" or the load from that hitch pin.  A 12,000# GVWR FW, medium size, will have a pin wt around 2400#.
A 1 ton truck is exactly the same physical dimensions of its' SRW (Single Rear Wheel) cousin, but has a GVWR of 11,500# and a Payload of 3300# - 3800# and costs less than $1,000 more new.  This is a small price to pay for heavier suspension and increased capacity.
A dual rear wheel 1 ton truck will have a GVWR of 14,000# and add another 2000# to Payload.

For ANY RV,  the MOST IMPORTANT FACTOR is FLOOR PLAN.  This is personal choice, but look at lots of options - FW TH and Class A and trailer.  What really feels like home - remember it will be home!  Both the Class A and FW are good, workable options.  What fits your lifestyle best?  TH also come on many sizes, styles and garage lengths.  Find what YOU need!

If you go FW, take a look at the GVWR, or the most weight the FW is designed to carry.  IGNORE DRY WT - THE SALESMAN'S BEST FRIEND!  The TV (Tow Vehicle) must have enough payload to carry both of you, any pets, cargo in the truck, a 200# FW hitch and 20% of the FW  GVWR.

Every truck sold in the last 10 years has a yellow top placard on the driver door latch post which states the weight of all passengers and cargo shall not exceed XXXX pounds.  This is the Payload for THAT vehicle as it was equipped when it left the factory.  Make positively sure it will handle the weight you calculated as your load weight above!!

Good Luck with the shopping.  Come back and ask lots of questions!
Preacher Gordon, DW Debbie
09 Grand Junction 35 TMS  Progressive HW50C
Andersen Ultimate hitch
2013 F350 Lariat LB SRW Supercab diesel 4X4   TST TMS  Garmin 760
Nimrod Series 70 popup (sold)
It's not a dumb question if you do not know the answer.

steveblonde

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Re: Newbies Here ... With A LOADED Question! (Be Nice)
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2018, 07:18:28 AM »
SINCE you are newbies I will give you something to think about.

Skip the truck and toy hauler and ...........

Get a Motorhome and a trailer for the bikes.  Then you won't be upgrading over and over and over until you get
to what I just suggested.

I do that now.  With a trailer you have a garage for the bikes and don't give up any living space when the bikes
are covered in a covered trailer. 

Since you are the above ^^^ you should be able to live life with motorcycles only (like I do) and post about life on the road with
only bikes to get around on.

A MH is usually going to be better quality then most toy haulers IMO.

When traveling you don't have to get out of a MH when it's raining cats and dogs like you do with a truck and toy hauler (TH).
Your wife (or you) could make lunch while going down the road - can't do that with a TH

My MH is 40ft and 12ft high.  I carry 2 bikes and tools in my trailer plus other stuff like a tire changer etc.
IF I want to take only one bike I have a motorcycle lift on the back of the MH.

IF you don't have a 1 ton truck now that would save you from having to buy one.
My MH is older but was in very good shape and cost me less that what a new truck would have cost.  It's a diesel so will pull
my trailer with no problem anywhere I want to go.

I was in your shoes somewhat and had never owned a RV of any type and went straight to a 40ft DP and I have been in it almost
3 months straight with maybe 2 more to go before I return home.
And I don't have to share any of my living space with my bikes and other equipment like you will with a 5er.

So you can buy a 1 ton truck and a toy hauler and still not be as comfortable as I am with my setup.

You did say you were NEWBIES and thought a toy hauler and truck was the answer.  But I'm trying to save you time and money
by saying there is another way to do what you want to do.  You might not think it's right for you, but IMO you should do yourself a favor
and at least check it out.  IF you do that and decide it's not for you - so be it.  But if you never look into it you might regret it someday, JMO

All I can tell you is I like what I have and do not think for one minute that I would be happier with a TH and truck.

Personal prefference i dumped the motor home and trailer for a 5er and a toyhauler - cant always break camp to go to the grocery store and use the bikes if the weather is crappy my toyhauler and truck combo for ME  is perfect but valid points are made both ways
2015 Voltage 3305 Toy Hauler - loaded
2014 F150 Ecoboost Reg cab (company truck) daily driver
2017 Black on Black F350 Diesel Dually loaded  5167lbs cargo/weight capacity
Selling truck parts for 15 yrs plus
" If you're not living on the edge you're taking up too much space"
From Canada Eh

CWSWine

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Re: Newbies Here ... With A LOADED Question! (Be Nice)
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2018, 08:40:14 AM »
Pick up a Newmar or Foretravel and stacker trailer.  Nice Corvette on the upper layer and a couple bikes on the lower level and your all set.  It's only money.  Last year a guy pulled on the campgrounds with that setup with Z06 Corvette and two full dress bikes with a ForeTravel with the stacker painted to match his coach.  Even had roll-a-way toolbox and workbench with Traeger grill.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2018, 08:41:54 AM by CWSWine »
-Dennis
2017 Fleetwood Discovery LXE 40D Diesel Pusher 380HP 1150 Foot Pounds Torque 41.3 feet bath and half.
Toads - 2017 Jeep Sahara & 2017 Jeep Grand Cherokee
sold 2017 GMC Denali 3500 Diesel CC 3744
sold 2017 Grand Design Solitude 310GK-R
Sold 2016 - Montana 3711 Front Living Room

RGP

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Re: Newbies Here ... With A LOADED Question! (Be Nice)
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2018, 12:37:15 PM »
As you can tell the issue is, you have little feel for what the folks are telling you. It is like reading how to swim or ride a bicycle.

At the last RV show they were showing half ton towable fifth wheels. Well in theory they were; if I want to camp alone and eat at restaurants. But if I want to take my family, pots, pans food and other provisions I need a 3/4 ton at least.

My wife and I faced the same dilemma when we retired and decided to tour the country. We came from a canoe and tent back ground, we knew all about paddling into white cap waves riding out storms in a dome tent, how hard could a travel trailer be?

So, we decided on the TT wanted and rented a similar unit from the dealer. We spent 10 day vacationing in the Ozarks. We soon found out this RVing was not "hard" but it was different. The most obvious thing we noticed were;

* 10 mpg on average.
* 55 to 65 mph max.
* 250 to 350 miles per day traveling.
* You will be passed by everything on the road.
* Truck, Bus and wind buffeting.
* A 200 hp F-150 with a four speed transmission does not do well with a 25 ft. TT.

When we were done we backed into the dealerships parking lot, unhooked the TT, paid our bill, retrieved our deposit and walked away to ponder what we had learned. Unfortunately I had not thought to take the rig across the CAT scales.

Since then we upgraded the truck, bought a similar sized TT, and have towed 30,000 mile all over the country in the last four years. From that we have leaned;
* TTs are cold in the winter snows.
* There is more maintenance than one would anticipate.
* You use up your TV's max cargo capacity a lot sooner than you would think.
* Four to six weeks on the road and I am ready to be home and touch base while planning for the next trip.

Once you understand the limitations, RVing is a delightful way to tour the country. Many of those limitations are self-imposed, the rest are specified by the manufacturers.   

Safe Travels

gravesdiesel

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Re: Newbies Here ... With A LOADED Question! (Be Nice)
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2018, 01:41:08 PM »
My next RV will be a fifth wheel toyhauler.  I also like being able to have the toys with me but also having the truck to go places in, while leaving the trailer set up at camp.  Toy haulers are much heavier built than other fifth wheels because they have heavier frames to accommodate the toys in the garage.  I have been looking at the Grand Design 350M and 351M. They have a 9 foot garage, a nice living area and bath and a half.
Definitely get a 3500 truck.  I am actually seriously considering a 4500 for "overkill".
2016 KZ Spree 262 RKS
2003 Dodge 3500 4 door flatbed 4x4 diesel, 6 speed
1996 Dodge 3500 extra cab flatbed 4x4 diesel 5 speed
2006 Arctic Cat TRV diesel 4x4 ATV
(2) 1981 Yamaha G1 2 cycle golf carts
Many other diesels on the farm!