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Author Topic: is eternabond tape the same as butyl tape?  (Read 1866 times)

SMR

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is eternabond tape the same as butyl tape?
« on: February 28, 2018, 04:17:52 PM »
is eternabond tape the same as bytle tape?
I have an issue on my roof where the dealer painted the liquid roof on the seams at the front and rear cap. they didn't do it correctly so the liquid roof is peeling off the roof but won't come off the painted caps.

I talked to the manufacturer of the liquid roof and the way to remedy the issue is to put down bytle tape over the seam and then paint over with their product (correctly this time with the primer and cleaning the roof before, etc.) the manufacturer is great to work with and is helping me get this resolved. FWIW

Dicor self leveling won't stick to the liquid roof so I just can't remove the liquid roof and go over with Dicor.

if the eternabond tape the same as bytle tape then I might be able to put that down and not have to do the painting with the liquid roof.
either way I will have a really good seal when all is done.

thanks
Gonna put the world away for a minute......
Steve
2016 Bighorn 3760 EL
2015 Ford F350
me, DW and Mattie dog

ChasA

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Re: is eternabond tape the same as butyl tape?
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2018, 05:02:21 PM »
Butyl tape?
No they are different.
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Tom

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Re: is eternabond tape the same as butyl tape?
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2018, 05:25:41 PM »
Quite different, with a different purpose/use. Without seeing what you're doing, it sounds like you could put Eternabond tape over the seam, no painting necessary if you don't mind Eternabond's color(s).
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John From Detroit

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Re: is eternabond tape the same as butyl tape?
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2018, 05:38:11 PM »
Not even close, where one is more of a putty, the other is more of.. Well a hard patch.
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Gizmo

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Re: is eternabond tape the same as butyl tape?
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2018, 06:12:24 PM »
An example where you would use butyl  tape is installing a window or vent where you lay it down first between the surface and the unit being installed.  Once in pressed into place and screws are secured, the butyl tape spreads and forms a seal to prevent leaks.  An example of Eternabond use would be on a rubber roof to repair a tear or other void.  Some people also use it as an extra seal around vents, antennas etc.
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kdbgoat

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Re: is eternabond tape the same as butyl tape?
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2018, 06:27:22 PM »
Yep, I like Eternabond, but it is butt ugly in places where it can be seen from the ground. Be aware though, if you do want to go with the liquid roof, there is an Eternabond that can be coated. Visit the Eternabond site to select what you need.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2018, 06:31:12 PM by kdbgoat »
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Molaker

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Re: is eternabond tape the same as butyl tape?
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2018, 06:31:34 PM »
An example where you would use butyl  tape is installing a window or vent where you lay it down first between the surface and the unit being installed.  Once in pressed into place and screws are secured, the butyl tape spreads and forms a seal to prevent leaks.  An example of Eternabond use would be on a rubber roof to repair a tear or other void.  Some people also use it as an extra seal around vents, antennas etc.
I used double-sided Eternabond tape as a seal when mounting a Fantastic fan, roof ladder mounts and under lengths of aluminum trim over roof joints.  It works great for this although much more expensive than butyl tape.  What I liked best about it in these applications where screws are driven through it, is the improved sealing around each screw.
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SMR

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Re: is eternabond tape the same as butyl tape?
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2018, 06:34:03 AM »
thanks for the info- I will ask  if the eternabond (if I like the colors)  will stick to the liquid roof coating, if not I will do the butyl tape and paint the roof coating

will the butyl tape be able to go over the Dicor product and stick to it or will I need to remove the Dicor.

thanks
« Last Edit: March 01, 2018, 07:21:12 AM by SMR »
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Steve
2016 Bighorn 3760 EL
2015 Ford F350
me, DW and Mattie dog

Molaker

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Re: is eternabond tape the same as butyl tape?
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2018, 09:31:30 AM »
thanks for the info- I will ask  if the eternabond (if I like the colors)  will stick to the liquid roof coating, if not I will do the butyl tape and paint the roof coating

will the butyl tape be able to go over the Dicor product and stick to it or will I need to remove the Dicor.

thanks
Butyl tape is more of a gasket than an adhesive.  About the only requirement is for the mating surfaces to be clean and free of loose material (dust, paint flakes, etc.).
Tom & Joyce and Ditto the "don't tell her she's a dog" Westie
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Tom

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Re: is eternabond tape the same as butyl tape?
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2018, 09:50:52 AM »
Quote from: Molaker
Butyl tape is more of a gasket than an adhesive.

Thanks Tom. That's the description I was searching for.
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SMR

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Re: is eternabond tape the same as butyl tape?
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2018, 10:23:56 AM »
thank you I appreciate all the info, like many others I like to know all the details before I start a project. I will do this in April when we get to my MIL's house or June when we stay at our friends and the weather cooperates. I will probably have a few more questions and I sent an email the liquid roof manufacturer to see if eternabond will work to.
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Steve
2016 Bighorn 3760 EL
2015 Ford F350
me, DW and Mattie dog

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: is eternabond tape the same as butyl tape?
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2018, 10:33:24 AM »
I'm skeptical that whoever advised you to use butyl tape knew what he/she was talking about.  They may have been trying to use a generic name for something like Eternabond without naming a brand, but neither of the two most popular roof seal tapes (Eternabond and Dicor DiSeal) contain any butyl.

Butyl tape is butyl putty (caulk) in the form of a ribbon (tape) for easy application.  Butyl has some excellent properties for surface adhesion and is widely used on metal and fiberglass surfaces, but it doesn't form a hard surface after being laid. For that reason, butyl is usually used like a gasket and is sandwiched between to adjoining surfaces.   I personally think it is a poor choice for use on an exposed surface, again because it remains quite soft & sticky. If applied on an open surface, it should have some sort of protective topcover.  Butyl is not readily paintable either.

Another point: you can't put anything over a peeling surface. The old layer will continue to peel and whatever new stuff you add comes off with it. You are going to have to get the peeling stuff off somehow. Maybe scrape the underlying caulk to get under it and expose a clean surface? Once you do that, you can re-seal with any of several products, likely including Dicor Lap Sealant.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2018, 10:40:39 AM by Gary RV_Wizard »
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SMR

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Re: is eternabond tape the same as butyl tape?
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2018, 01:57:50 PM »
thanks Gary you got me thinking, I will need to ask a few more questions to the manufacturer. I would think I should use a product that would stick to the roof, I thought the tape did that. glad I'm asking this now.

the person who suggested butyl tape is the manufacturer and inventor of the liquid roof.
I will need to peel off all the loose liquid roof then put down the butyl tape. after the tape goes on I will need to prime the roof, tape and cap then I can apply the liquid roof over the primer.
the problem is the liquid roof won't come off the painted cap and Dicor won't stick to it. I would rather just use Dicor when I do my roof checks every year

I will contact the manufacturer of the liquid roof and see exactly what they are talking about as far as the butyl tape, they have some they will send me for free.
Gonna put the world away for a minute......
Steve
2016 Bighorn 3760 EL
2015 Ford F350
me, DW and Mattie dog

SMR

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Re: is eternabond tape the same as butyl tape?
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2018, 07:51:30 AM »
one of my fellow work campers suggested I try his heat gun to remove the liquid roof at the cap, would this be a wise thing to try?

thanks
Gonna put the world away for a minute......
Steve
2016 Bighorn 3760 EL
2015 Ford F350
me, DW and Mattie dog

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: is eternabond tape the same as butyl tape?
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2018, 08:10:30 AM »
A heat gun is worth a try.  It softens most coatings for easier removal, but be cautious because it will soften the surroundings as well. I'm guessing you have an EPDM or TPO roof membrane and some sort of lap sealant at the seams.  Both of those will also soften with heat.

I suspect the guy who said "butyl tape" was simply using an inaccurate term for a roof repair tape, but best to ask him again.

There is a type of product called "single sided butyl tape" that is sticky on one side and has a protective film on the other that maybe could be used on an exposed surface like your roof seam, but you would be hard-pressed to find it in any retail store.  If you go to a hardware or home store and ask for "butyl tape", you are gonna get the double-sided sticky stuff cause that's the common product that everybody uses. The only places that I know of that use single sided butyl tape are factories that fabricate metal buildings or equipment. Single sided is still used as a gasket but on surfaces that may need to be separated or adjusted. Tape that is sticky on only one side makes that easier.

Learn more about butyl tapes at http://www.butyl-tape.com/

I'm not clear on why he recommended putting tape over the seam either. Once you get the peeling coat off and the surface properly prepped, why not just prime and use the liquid roof?   Butyl works to fill in any gouges or deep cracks, but squeezing in some Dicor is usually an easier and equally effective solution to that (if needed).

The sad part is this all apparently started with a simple seam leak on a near-new rig. A squirt or two of Dicor probably could have fixed it, but somebody got gung-ho and went overboard with a roof coat without adequate prep.  In my opinion any roof coat product is a poor choice as a seam sealer and leak preventative. It's an easy thing for a RV shop to apply, though, and no doubt a profitable item for them.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2018, 08:25:30 AM by Gary RV_Wizard »
Gary
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Gary Brinck
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SMR

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Re: is eternabond tape the same as butyl tape?
« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2018, 06:59:00 AM »
worse than that it, we purchased it new and the dealer decided to use this product as a protective measure to seal over all the seams. they didn't understand that it would not stick to Dicor and also didn't prep the roof properly. they did a lot of them like this.

they are going to pick up the material costs and I want it done correctly so I will do the labor part.
the liquid roof peels off the roof seams around the sky light, antenna and sewer vents- it just sticks to the painted caps and that is where my problem is, if i could peel it off the caps then I would just use Dicor and be done.

I will carefully try the heat gun on a spot and see what happens, hopefully I will get time today.

thanks
 
Gonna put the world away for a minute......
Steve
2016 Bighorn 3760 EL
2015 Ford F350
me, DW and Mattie dog

SMR

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Re: is eternabond tape the same as butyl tape?
« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2018, 07:38:07 AM »
so far I have a few hours and should have about 10 to 12 when done. I just want to get the roof done and move on. please don't let this get off topic

thanks
Gonna put the world away for a minute......
Steve
2016 Bighorn 3760 EL
2015 Ford F350
me, DW and Mattie dog

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: is eternabond tape the same as butyl tape?
« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2018, 08:00:17 AM »
Quote
..they didn't understand that it would not stick to Dicor

Is the coating the Liquid Roof brand product or some other brand of elastomeric roof coating?  I  ask because to the best of my knowledge, Liquid Roof will stick well to dicor lap sealant. An RV-specific roof coating pretty much has to be compatible with Dicor lap sealant because it is so commonly used around edges and openings on the vast majority of RV EPDM roofs.   However, there is no guarantee the Heartland factory used the Dicor product - it  is quite likely they use a different brand of lap sealant that is sold in industrial-use quantities.  Any such sealant, though, would be EPDM compatible and thus Liquid Roof should stick to it readily.

I found some info on the Liquid Roof site re the butyl tape. It recommends double-sided butyl tape for filling separations in the seams. That's a reasonable  (though somewhat unusual) use for butyl tape. Note however, that filling a separation (gap) is a rather different thing than covering an entire seam with it.

Quote
Liquid Roof is specifically formulated for vehicles that are in motion. It has a higher reflective value but more important a higher tensile strength which is very forgiving when your vehicle is traveling down the highway.  If your RV or trailer is stationary all year you can use the Liquid Rubber but please note should you eventually travel with it the warranty would no longer be valid. The 10 year warranty is only on the RV product. For any separation in the joints seams we suggest applying the two sided Butyl tape along the seams prior to the application of the Liquid roof.  For areas around your vents, air conditioners or where existing caulk has become loose we suggest filling those with the Rutex caulk found on or order form.  This Caulk has been field tested and is compatible with the liquid epdm and will not void its warranty.  It is free of any solvents or isocyanates and is 100% volume solids.  More information can be found HERE (RUBEX CAULK)

For the full text of the quote above, see http://www.liquid-roof.com/rv_roof_repair.php and also http://www.liquid-roof.com/liquidroof.php

It's hard to make a recommendation without seeing the problem area, but I would be inclined toward using a wire brush or "flapper" type paint remover tool on a drill or grinder to get as much as possible of the peeling stuff off. That should also help remove whatever is in the surface that interferes with adhesion. If the seam surface is mounded with grooves and cracks (typical), you might have to take off a fair amount of the surface. A heated and fairly stiff putty knife blade works for that, but use caution to avoid cutting into any adjacent EPDM membrane.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2018, 08:06:51 AM by Gary RV_Wizard »
Gary
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SMR

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Re: is eternabond tape the same as butyl tape?
« Reply #18 on: March 03, 2018, 12:05:41 PM »
it's the Pro Guard Liquid Roof brand. it peels right off the Dicor, I also put some on the liquid roof when I first saw a crack and that also peeled right off.

the heat gun did get it off but also the paint - fortunately I only did a real small area about and 1/8th of an inch by 1/2 an inch so I can touch that up.
I was able to scrap some up with my plastic putty knife with no damage but it did leave a thin residue so I will see if xylene (?) will help remove the residue and soften it up
the butyl tape is coming from the manufacturer of the Liquid Roof, the process is how they do the roof to cap transition. still waiting to hear from them on the Eternabond

thanks
Gonna put the world away for a minute......
Steve
2016 Bighorn 3760 EL
2015 Ford F350
me, DW and Mattie dog

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: is eternabond tape the same as butyl tape?
« Reply #19 on: March 03, 2018, 03:22:47 PM »
Quote
it's the Pro Guard Liquid Roof brand. it peels right off the Dicor,

I apologize for harping on this, but how do you know that what is on there now is Dicor?   And if it is, why would you ever put on a roof coating that is incompatible?  How are you going to seal seams and openings in the future if standard EPDM lap sealants won't adhere to it?

Quote
I also put some on the liquid roof when I first saw a crack and that also peeled right off.
If I'm reading this correctly, you applied a tube of your own Dicor 501 Lap Sealant to a place where the Liquid Roof was stuck, but the new layer of Dicor did not adhere?  What did the Proguard people say about that?

Something seems fishy about this situation. I'm sure thousands of RV owners have applied RV Liquid Roof and that many, if not most, had Dicor self-leveling lap sealant in place.  It's one of the most widely used aftermarket lap sealants for RV roofing.
Gary
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Gary Brinck
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COCJ

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Re: is eternabond tape the same as butyl tape?
« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2018, 05:25:01 PM »
I used to sell commercial roofing membranes,(including TPO and EPDM) and coatings for a large roofing products distributor. We sold Eternabond tape as a repair product. Technically, I believe that the sticky part of the tape is a butyl product, but not anything like the butyl putty tape commonly used in the RV industry. There are many different formulations of butyl rubber.  Eternabond will stick to just about anything (except silicone) as long as the surface is cleaned properly. It is a very good product when installed correctly.

In my opinion, it is a waste of money to coat a TPO or EPDM roof. These membranes were designed to be exposed to the elements, including UV, and do not require periodic recoating in order to to survive. Once a coating is installed, it becomes a maintenance issue. Most DIYers do not have the skills or equipment to properly prepare a roof for coating. That leads to peeling in the future. If your roof is leaking, it is because there is a hole in the membrane or an issue with the sealant used around a penetration (roof vent, pipe, etc.). A coating will not fix either of those problems.

A tip to remove suspected loose coating in an area to be repaired: put some duct tape over the coating to be removed, pressing it down firmly. Then zip the duct tape off briskly. The loose coating should come off with it.

My opinions come from over 40 years in the commercial roofing business. You might consider buying the Eternabond from a roofing products distributor instead of an RV store. You will have a better choice of sizes and colors and it may be cheaper.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2018, 05:31:31 PM by COCJ »
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Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: is eternabond tape the same as butyl tape?
« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2018, 07:18:30 PM »
Gotta agree with COCJ, but SMR got the problem handed to him by a dealer, who apparently messed up while trying to make an improvement.

I would not recommend a roof coating unless the original membrane is worn down to the backer fabric. Coating a roof "just because" is a waste of time & money as well as risking  a future nightmare.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2018, 07:20:48 PM by Gary RV_Wizard »
Gary
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Gary Brinck
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SMR

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Re: is eternabond tape the same as butyl tape?
« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2018, 07:13:29 AM »
Gary your not harping just helping me solve my issue, the seams will need re-coated with proguard and the openings where it was easy to remove I used Dicor. 
the issue is getting the proguard off the caps, if it would peel off I would use Dicor but since it is not I need to figure a way to seal over it.

If I'm reading this correctly, you applied a tube of your own Dicor 501 Lap Sealant to a place where the Liquid Roof was stuck, but the new layer of Dicor did not adhere?  What did the Proguard people say about that?
I applied the Dicor because the dealer who put the liquid rood down said it would adhere to it, when I went to peel the liquid roof off from around the skylite where I put the Dicor it peeled off the liquid roof, when I asked Progaurd about this the said that Dicor would not stick to their product.  I had hoped it would as that would quickly solve my problem.
I would love to find a product like Dicor that I could just apply and be done- I saw a product called sikaflex and will see if that might work

the issue is only at the front and rear caps where the roof and cap meet, not the entire roof, the maker of Proguard   told me to use the butyl tape and their product to take care of the seams. if I was near their manufacturing plant they would do the work for me at no cost.

thanks
Gonna put the world away for a minute......
Steve
2016 Bighorn 3760 EL
2015 Ford F350
me, DW and Mattie dog

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: is eternabond tape the same as butyl tape?
« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2018, 07:52:58 AM »
This is a bit off-topic, but since the question came up...

Eternabond says their product is not buytl, but that may be an academic distinction. They call it a MicroSealant. From their website:

Quote
EternaBond® is from a technologically advanced family of sealants called MicroSealant®. All EternaBond® tapes are made using advanced MicroSealant Technology®. Made from a unique combination of resins and rubbers, and infused with a built in primer, Eternabond® is one of the most aggressive adhesives currently available, yet EternaBond® is environmentally friendly. As easy to use as a standard roll of tape, Eternabond® will adhere to a rubber roof, forming a water-sealed and permanent repair for any crack or leak. Additionally, Eternabond® has an expansion capacity of over 500 percent, making it capable of contracting and expanding with the rubber roof, regardless of weather conditions.
Gary
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Home: Ocala National Forest, FL

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: is eternabond tape the same as butyl tape?
« Reply #24 on: March 05, 2018, 08:02:37 AM »
Quote
I applied the Dicor because the dealer who put the liquid rood down said it would adhere to it, when I went to peel the liquid roof off from around the skylite where I put the Dicor it peeled off the liquid roof, when I asked Progaurd about this the said that Dicor would not stick to their product.  I had hoped it would as that would quickly solve my problem.

You were expecting the Dicor to stick well enough to pull off the underlying Liquid Roof?  It might, if allowed to cure for several weeks, but probably not in the short term.

I cannot imagine why you would apply more Liquid Roof once you get that stuff off.  First of all, the seams don't need any extra sealing. Second, why use a product that has trouble sticking to common RV roof surfaces and apparently is incompatible with common RV sealants?

A pressure cleaner might help remove the peeling stuff.  For the places where it is well-adhered, why not just leave it?
Gary
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Gary Brinck
Summers: Black Mountain, NC
Home: Ocala National Forest, FL

SMR

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Re: is eternabond tape the same as butyl tape?
« Reply #25 on: March 05, 2018, 08:35:28 AM »
the product pulls right off the roof and I have all the roof penetrations done- its just getting it off the caps.
I would rather not do the butyl tape and coating like the Proguard people said to do and yes I would rather not use the Proguard but it might be my only option at this point
Gonna put the world away for a minute......
Steve
2016 Bighorn 3760 EL
2015 Ford F350
me, DW and Mattie dog

SMR

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Re: is eternabond tape the same as butyl tape?
« Reply #26 on: March 05, 2018, 08:36:57 AM »
here are a few pictures- you can see where it is on the cap - that is the issue getting it off the cap. and yes they did a sloppy job of applying it on the front cap, the rear cap has much less on it so I might be able to clean it up completely and reapply the dicor as I did on the roof penetrations
these are from a few months ago- most of the loose stuff is gone
« Last Edit: March 05, 2018, 08:39:28 AM by SMR »
Gonna put the world away for a minute......
Steve
2016 Bighorn 3760 EL
2015 Ford F350
me, DW and Mattie dog

SMR

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Re: is eternabond tape the same as butyl tape?
« Reply #27 on: April 13, 2018, 10:13:18 AM »
update: I talked to the dealer and they sent me out a product call acrysol. it took a lot of time but I did get the liquid roof off the painted part of the cap. I also used a plastic putty knife to scrape it off with no damage to the paint. our camper has full body paint so when they painted it they painted over the Dicor or sealant at the seam, I was not able to get the liquid roof off of that so I will need to remove and replace with Dicor.
anyone know the best way to remove the sealant?

I also cleaned a part of the liquid roof and applied a bead of the Dicor, let it sit since May 6th and yesterday it peeled right off the liquid roof.

so far so good- I should have it all back to the way it was before they applied the liquid roof. so far the dealer has been sending me the product I need to to get this done. wait until I send him my hours and ask for compensation. LOL for know I just want to get this behind me so I can properly maintain my roof.

Gonna put the world away for a minute......
Steve
2016 Bighorn 3760 EL
2015 Ford F350
me, DW and Mattie dog