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Author Topic: politics  (Read 4844 times)

kdbgoat

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politics
« on: March 07, 2018, 07:56:57 AM »
There are about a half a dozen members here, on "both sides of the aisle" that seem to have to interject politics in every thing they post. Some blatant, some veiled. Everyone here knows who I'm talking about and which side they're on. If you really need to put your politics out there on the web, do an internet search for political forums, find one or two or a hundred you like and post there. The RV Forum is not the place. It's getting really old and serves no useful purpose except to spread hate, discontentment, and division among our members. That's opposite of the purpose of this forum. Don't take me wrong, though I may disagree with someone, I would still be happy to sit around a campfire with them, and have them join me at the dinner table, as one member here has done with me.
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BinaryBob

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Re: politics
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2018, 07:57:49 AM »
 :))
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stevensc

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Re: politics
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2018, 08:09:36 AM »
Well said!
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SeilerBird

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Re: politics
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2018, 08:13:32 AM »
Thank you for saying that. Not just politics but also guns.
I would like to apologize to anyone I have not yet offended. Please be patient and I will get to you shortly.
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mikeylikesit

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Re: politics
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2018, 08:14:20 AM »
agreed!  Plenty of OTHER forums for that stuff.
Mike and Valerie- She's retired....I'm close!
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Bill N

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Re: politics
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2018, 08:18:34 AM »
There are about a half a dozen members here, on "both sides of the aisle" that seem to have to interject politics in every thing they post. Some blatant, some veiled. Everyone here knows who I'm talking about and which side they're on. If you really need to put your politics out there on the web, do an internet search for political forums, find one or two or a hundred you like and post there. The RV Forum is not the place. It's getting really old and serves no useful purpose except to spread hate, discontentment, and division among our members. That's opposite of the purpose of this forum. Don't take me wrong, though I may disagree with someone, I would still be happy to sit around a campfire with them, and have them join me at the dinner table, as one member here has done with me.

It is very hard today to do anything on the internet without sometimes brushing up against politics.  They affect almost every part of our life including RVing - national parks, lifetime passes, fees, etc.  Those that stray too far here are usually locked.  I treat it like I treat the news.  If I don't like it I just skip over to the next subject.  You could also include guns and religion in your post too.  Especially guns but everybody seems to think that anybody who owns a gun is an NRA member and that is far from the truth.  Religion has not been much of a problem.  So if you want to stick to pure RVing I think you will have to do as most do - skip over what offends you and press on.

Bill
« Last Edit: March 07, 2018, 08:25:04 AM by Bill N »
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kdbgoat

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Re: politics
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2018, 08:19:15 AM »
Agree on the gun arguments too. I do think if someone asks an honest question about state laws or something like that, someone can post a link to where they can get their question answered, and everyone let it go at that. Further discussions can be handled by PM.
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SeilerBird

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Re: politics
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2018, 09:10:32 AM »
Agree on the gun arguments too. I do think if someone asks an honest question about state laws or something like that, someone can post a link to where they can get their question answered, and everyone let it go at that. Further discussions can be handled by PM.
I agree. And at that point the thread should be closed.
I would like to apologize to anyone I have not yet offended. Please be patient and I will get to you shortly.
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Re: politics
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2018, 09:23:04 AM »
 :)) :)) :))

camperAL

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Re: politics
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2018, 09:30:59 AM »
Greetings All,

I want to thank kdbgoat, for putting this post up! I agree with what he says. Good advise of posting links to areas that answer certain questions that get political.

This is a great forum and for the most part isn't too volatile. I'd like to see it remain that way. A thanks to the forum moderators that help keep it that way!

 :)) :)) :))
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Tom and Margi

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Re: politics
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2018, 10:28:32 AM »
Several members seem to enjoy making veiled comments regarding political views perhaps thinking they can slip the comments by the forum staff.  To them I say "you're not as cute or as clever as you think you are!" and many of us find this practice extremely tiresome.  IMHO.

SeilerBird

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Re: politics
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2018, 10:41:11 AM »
The worst part of the whole deal is that the idiots making their stupid remarks seem to think they are accomplishing something when in reality all they are doing is saying 'Look at me, I am an idiot'.
I would like to apologize to anyone I have not yet offended. Please be patient and I will get to you shortly.
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Sun2Retire

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Re: politics
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2018, 10:46:20 AM »
and many of us find this practice extremely tiresome. 

As does the staff.

It's not a matter of "just don't read it if you don't like it", these conversations simply don't belong here, and once they start downhill, one or more staff members start paying close attention, issuing warnings (often ignored), eventually locking and then sometimes cleaning up the mess. I would disagree that everything touches politics - if you can't talk about RVs without wandering down the wrong road, you're not trying hard enough. And here's a clue: if you're starting a sentence with, "I don't want to get political" or "This isn't meant to be political but..." just stop typing and hit the back button.
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Spring Creek

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Re: politics
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2018, 11:45:33 AM »
As someone who has not been here long, it is nice to be able to avoid the political discussions (and I don't think I've knowingly contributed/started any of those).  That being said, I would say some folks here are way too sensitive....whether the topic is politics or otherwise.  Someone makes a statement and game on......

Please remember feedback can come in a number of ways but most fall into two categories: Opinions and Data (facts).  Blending the two can be ugly.

It is not fun to read a post where two people are arguing a point that is moot (RV site grounding comes to mind).  I'm an electrician, no I'm an electrician.....and so on.

So I'd give the same advice to folks who want to argue (regularly)....let it go and move on. 

Kurt
2018 Winnebago Minnie Winnie 31K - 2011 Equinox

FunSteak

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Re: politics
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2018, 11:46:33 AM »
I wholeheartedly support this thread!   :))

One of the reasons this forum is so good, IMO, is that these topics don't dominate every thread.   There are a lot of forums out there that certainly can't claim that.
JP & Karen
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HappyWanderer

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Re: politics
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2018, 11:57:38 AM »
There is no reason to avoid gun discussions if the political snipers keep out of the discussion. Many forum members travel with weapons, and this forum is a good resource for the exchange of relevant information.
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SeilerBird

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Re: politics
« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2018, 12:09:53 PM »
There is no reason to avoid gun discussions if the political snipers keep out of the discussion. Many forum members travel with weapons, and this forum is a good resource for the exchange of relevant information.
But every single discussion that guns are mentioned eventually get locked as this one probably will very soon. If people need information about guns then go to a gun forum.
I would like to apologize to anyone I have not yet offended. Please be patient and I will get to you shortly.
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HappyWanderer

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Re: politics
« Reply #17 on: March 07, 2018, 12:32:04 PM »
But every single discussion that guns are mentioned eventually get locked as this one probably will very soon. If people need information about guns then go to a gun forum.

That is a false statement. The only gun topics that get locked are the ones where politics get thrown in. There have been many very informative topics related to traveling with weapons that were not derailed by political comments.
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Tom

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Re: politics
« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2018, 12:51:28 PM »
Appreciate the various comments. We are listening.

Our preference is not to have a forum of locked topics. As Sun2Retire suggested, we employ various measures, including posting a polite warning to deal with charged discussions. We also split offending messages from topics and move them out of public view. We also communicate with offenders via PM or email. Much of what goes on behind the scenes is not in public view.

Historically, our forum members expressed a strong desire to not have discussions about politics, religion or firearms. Also historically, forum members actively (gently, but firmly) reminded others about posting this stuff. This was what we used to refer to as a "self-moderating forum", and I saw an example of this in another discussion this morning. Over the years, we've attempted to open things up and allow ilimited discussion of the "taboo" topics, in the hope that folks could have adult discussions. Unfortunately, some folks insist on posting a charged comment that becomes a lightning rod, and some folks just can't restrain themselves to keep the discussion civil, resulting in the discussion spiraling downhill.

I'll respectfully remind folks of these excerpts from our forum Rules (that we all agreed to when registering for an account here).

Political and Religious Ranting
 Political and religious rants can lead to some ugly discussions and arguments, even among otherwise polite and friendly people. Over the years, RV Forum members have expressed a desire to avoid these kinds of discussions in our forum, preferring to maintain harmony. So, please post your political and religious views elsewhere such as one of the many alternative venues that cater to such discussions.

Respect For Others
 While disagreements will understandably arise, we ask that members try to correspond in a friendly and good-mannered fashion. Personal disparagement, libel, slander, and harassment are unacceptable. Please try to focus on the issues, not on your correspondent. Attack the message, not the messenger! Personal attacks on other members are not permitted, regardless of the perceived provocation.  If you are offended by someone else's message, you may bring it to the attention of the forum staff; but please do not respond "in kind" to any perceived offense by another member.


Thanks for your cooperation.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2018, 01:05:02 PM by Tom »
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kdbgoat

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Re: politics
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2018, 01:32:43 PM »
It's pretty obvious that I have violated the "Respect For Others" rule. I apologize to the Admin and moderators, the site members, and especially those I disrespected. I'll do my best not to disrespect anyone again. I imagine I probably violated the the other rule also at one time or another, so please accept my apologies for that too. As I said before, though I may disagree with another person about different things, I would feel honored to sit around a campfire with anyone here.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2018, 01:55:10 PM by kdbgoat »
I know you believe you understand what you think I said,
But I am not sure you realize what you heard is not what I meant


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Molaker

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Re: politics
« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2018, 01:47:58 PM »
Ohhh!  This is going to get political.
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Danny Pyle

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Re: politics
« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2018, 01:52:52 PM »
I guess I must of missed the political and religion arguments. The only thing I will add is if I had visited this forum before we purchased our RV we may not have purchased one. All the negative posts about dealers and lack of quality in RV’s may have discouraged us.
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Tom

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Re: politics
« Reply #22 on: March 07, 2018, 02:15:55 PM »
Quote from: kdbgoat
It's pretty obvious that I have violated the "Respect For Others" rule. I apologize to the Admin and moderators, the site members, and especially those I disrespected.

 ??? I don't see any need to apologize. In fact, the original cut of my last message thanked you for posting, but others beat me to it.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2018, 02:17:34 PM by Tom »
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SeilerBird

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Re: politics
« Reply #23 on: March 07, 2018, 02:50:13 PM »
It's pretty obvious that I have violated the "Respect For Others" rule. I apologize to the Admin and moderators, the site members, and especially those I disrespected. I'll do my best not to disrespect anyone again. I imagine I probably violated the the other rule also at one time or another, so please accept my apologies for that too. As I said before, though I may disagree with another person about different things, I would feel honored to sit around a campfire with anyone here.
I was going to mention that it seemed odd that none of the people who are the worst offenders are coming in here and apologizing. So thank goat for proving me wrong.
I would like to apologize to anyone I have not yet offended. Please be patient and I will get to you shortly.
Favorite 2017 shots:
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kdbgoat

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Re: politics
« Reply #24 on: March 07, 2018, 02:56:04 PM »
You're welcome. ;)
I know you believe you understand what you think I said,
But I am not sure you realize what you heard is not what I meant


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ClickHill

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Re: politics
« Reply #25 on: March 07, 2018, 03:35:28 PM »
I don't think I have gone down the political rabbit hole but I will be very careful not to.  If nothing else I think everybody who reads this thread will hopefully take stock in what they post and we can all pay attention to stay on topic, provide helpful information and just generally be nice to each other.  As others have said we would be honored to sit around a camp fire with anybody on this forum.
D & D
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SeilerBird

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Re: politics
« Reply #26 on: March 07, 2018, 03:49:13 PM »
As others have said we would be honored to sit around a camp fire with anybody on this forum.
I have done that several times and it is even better than you can imagine. Except for the time at
Quartzsite when some clown sat down and delivered a two hour monologue and would not let anyone else in on the conversation. I really felt sorry for his wife.
I would like to apologize to anyone I have not yet offended. Please be patient and I will get to you shortly.
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PJ Stough

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Re: politics
« Reply #27 on: March 07, 2018, 04:55:57 PM »
One thing that may be being done, and I just havent noticed,  is when a post violates the rules, instead of just locking the thread with the offending post(s), remove the offending post(s) before locking it. If posters know that offending post(s) will be removed, there is less reason to post them in the first place, and there is less reason to respond to posts that violate the rules if potential posters know that offending posts will be removed.
PJ Stough   Iowa
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Tom

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Re: politics
« Reply #28 on: March 07, 2018, 04:58:42 PM »
Quote from: Paul & Ann7
One thing that may be being done, and I just havent noticed,  is when a post violates the rules, instead of just locking the thread with the offending post(s), remove the offending post(s) before locking it.

Yes, as Sun2Retire and I mentioned, one of our actions is to move offending messages out of public view. Sometimes this happens before anyone has seen the message(s).
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kdbgoat

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Re: politics
« Reply #29 on: March 07, 2018, 05:07:29 PM »
As Tom stated, they try to let the forum be self moderated. Could the moderators be stricter? Maybe, but I think they do a great job now. An over moderated forum is dumpster fire. And the moderators have more to their life than just monitoring the site. I could only imagine how much they already do behind the scenes.
I know you believe you understand what you think I said,
But I am not sure you realize what you heard is not what I meant


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Tom

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Re: politics
« Reply #30 on: March 07, 2018, 05:15:05 PM »
I'm somewhat hesitant to suggest the use of the Report to moderator link, which brings our (forum staff) attention to specific messages/topics. The link is visible near the bottom right of all forum posts). We already have folks who misuse it, by 'reporting' messages they disagree with, and reporting messages that staffers will see and act on anyway.

FWIW that link alerts all forum staff which, in my case, means I get notified at each of my several staff accounts.

My suggestion would be to give the staff time to see and act on topics before clicking the link.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2018, 05:43:38 PM by Tom »
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jymbee

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Re: politics
« Reply #31 on: March 07, 2018, 05:30:53 PM »
... though I may disagree with another person about different things, I would feel honored to sit around a campfire with anyone here.

We have some friends-- husband & wife-- whose political views could not possibly be more opposite than ours. Plus we all have very strong feelings about our positions and are not shy about expressing them. We typically visit them when on vacation in FL once a year and the one "Golden Rule" we all follow is to never discuss politics! As a result, we all get along great and have a really nice time given there are SO many other things to talk about.


ChasA

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Re: politics
« Reply #32 on: March 07, 2018, 06:16:59 PM »
Yep. I have some very good friends that watch a certain tv channel and believe what they see there. We, on the other hand,  watch a different channel  and believe what we see there.  We do not discuss politics,  we just enjoy our camaraderie.
Thanks for starting this kdbgoat.
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UTTransplant

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Re: politics
« Reply #33 on: March 07, 2018, 06:18:52 PM »
I always groan to myself when a thread starts going on to topics like personal protection (not the condom kind) or politics. I know it won’t be long until things get ugly. It doesn’t have to, but there are a few pollsters who seem incapable of restraining themselves. I haven’t seen many religious posts thank goodness. I am not without fault, though I usually catch myself before hitting “post”. However I don’t see the primary offenders responding here. Too bad.
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John From Detroit

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Re: politics
« Reply #34 on: March 07, 2018, 06:47:09 PM »
With out taking sides:
Politics: I just visited a Federal operated park, in 2 weeks I'll be in a State park
Politics: The water in Flint, was and still is killing people
Politics: I am old enough to remember Rivers of fire, and air you could not breath, Politics fixed that.
There is so much more. but the point is   ...... Politics is a matter of life and death  YOURS. you really should pay attention.
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Oldgator73

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Re: politics
« Reply #35 on: March 07, 2018, 06:50:26 PM »
I was going to mention that it seemed odd that none of the people who are the worst offenders are coming in here and apologizing. So thank goat for proving me wrong.

I'm sorry.
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Tom and Margi

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Re: politics
« Reply #36 on: March 07, 2018, 06:51:53 PM »
With out taking sides:
Politics: I just visited a Federal operated park, in 2 weeks I'll be in a State park
Politics: The water in Flint, was and still is killing people
Politics: I am old enough to remember Rivers of fire, and air you could not breath, Politics fixed that.
There is so much more. but the point is   ...... Politics is a matter of life and death  YOURS. you really should pay attention.

Just follow forum rules.  There are other venues to more appropriately air the world's issues.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2018, 10:51:34 AM by Tom and Margi »

SeilerBird

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Re: politics
« Reply #37 on: March 07, 2018, 06:58:27 PM »
With out taking sides:
Politics: I just visited a Federal operated park, in 2 weeks I'll be in a State park
Politics: The water in Flint, was and still is killing people
Politics: I am old enough to remember Rivers of fire, and air you could not breath, Politics fixed that.
There is so much more. but the point is   ...... Politics is a matter of life and death  YOURS. you really should pay attention.
We all do pay attention, do you think you are the only one paying attention?. It is just that we also follow the rules which state no political discussions here.
I would like to apologize to anyone I have not yet offended. Please be patient and I will get to you shortly.
Favorite 2017 shots:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/y0HbMU5KYa2hx02E3
My portfolio:
https://goo.gl/photos/Cx4SaYhGfYFShSty7
My Grand Canyon shots:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Nc1AT8tQp25wJwfm1

Tom

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Re: politics
« Reply #38 on: March 07, 2018, 07:02:42 PM »
Why do folks feel the need to continually jump in and stir the pot? Maybe there's a 12-step process for these folks?
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UTTransplant

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Re: politics
« Reply #39 on: March 07, 2018, 07:04:49 PM »
Why do folks feel the need to continually jump in and stir the pot? Maybe there's a 12-step process for these folks?
What he said.  :))
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Re: politics
« Reply #40 on: March 07, 2018, 09:47:46 PM »
I think that most members are pretty good about self moderating. I myself have typed a few posts, but hit delete before posting. So I get it. Some things strike a nerve, and the knee jerk reaction is to throw in your 2 cents. The one thing that will get me riled up is a personal attack on a member.  Fortunately I see very little of it here.  It is good to have this conversation from time to time, just to remind everyone that our favorite subject here is RVing!
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Re: politics
« Reply #41 on: March 07, 2018, 11:52:44 PM »
It's pretty obvious that I have violated the "Respect For Others" rule. I apologize to the Admin and moderators, the site members, and especially those I disrespected. I'll do my best not to disrespect anyone again. I imagine I probably violated the the other rule also at one time or another, so please accept my apologies for that too. As I said before, though I may disagree with another person about different things, I would feel honored to sit around a campfire with anyone here.

X2

Sometimes I wake up and read the things I typed in last night and wonder how many beers I had ,   (I know the mods cut me some slack too) ... Most times I just hope people still have a sense of humor.  ;)



Tony. 
« Last Edit: March 08, 2018, 04:37:02 AM by TonyDtorch »

SeilerBird

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Re: politics
« Reply #42 on: March 08, 2018, 06:41:18 AM »
Thank you for that Tony. That is two of the offenders who have now apologized so this thread is having a positive effect. This thread will be a great response to anyone in the future that starts to talk about politics or guns.
I would like to apologize to anyone I have not yet offended. Please be patient and I will get to you shortly.
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Oldgator73

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Re: politics
« Reply #43 on: March 08, 2018, 07:13:15 AM »
Not sure if I have ever started a political discussion but I know I have contributed to them. There are some of us that are very passionate about certain subjects and those posts trigger something in us. I don't think there is anything malicious or mean spirited in our comments. Refraining from political, religious and other hot topic conversations is a forum rule and more importantly, the majority of forum members do not want these discussions on rvforum.net. The moderators have been very lenient in regards to a lot of what we have to say. Other forums would have cancelled memberships. Going forward I will make a pledge to do my best to refrain from starting or responding to political conversations. It would be my desire that if I do stray into that field of discussion someone will call me out, politely.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2018, 07:18:19 AM by Oldgator73 »
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HappyWanderer

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Re: politics
« Reply #44 on: March 08, 2018, 07:25:10 AM »
Thank you for that Tony. That is two of the offenders who have now apologized so this thread is having a positive effect. This thread will be a great response to anyone in the future that starts to talk about politics or guns.

If people who don't like guns would stay out of the conversation, there would be no controversy.

I don't happen to like cats, but don't jump in and derail the topic and spew anti-cat nonsense whenever you mention your pets.

See how that works?
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SeilerBird

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Re: politics
« Reply #45 on: March 08, 2018, 07:30:57 AM »
No, the rule is no discussion about guns. It is not there so only one side can discuss the issue. What part of no do you not understand?
I would like to apologize to anyone I have not yet offended. Please be patient and I will get to you shortly.
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Alpena Jeff

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Re: politics
« Reply #46 on: March 08, 2018, 07:42:39 AM »
Sure is cooler in Florida than I thought it would be. ;)
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spencerpj

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Re: politics
« Reply #47 on: March 08, 2018, 07:46:53 AM »
I certainly owe an apology to many of you for inappropriate comments in all the above.  I agree, I joined this site as a tool to learn more about my RV and share some of my handyman skills.

I am opinionated obviously, and agree it has no place on this website.  I will make a true effort to refrain.  I also belong to a motorcycle forum, and we would never discuss politics or religion, guns or pets there.

For my comments, I am sorry.

A recent post about cats, and I/we currently have no pets, but agree, can we also not discuss pets.  I agree pets can be an issue concerning Rving, as one could argue religion, guns, and politics can play into their morals, values, and concerns in RVing as well.

I for one, really feel learning of fluffy, or brutus doesn't belong in a RV forum.

I do like this Forum, and this is a great thread.

As one stuck indoors, with a cover over my TT, I look forward to the Spring weather.


John From Detroit

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Re: politics
« Reply #48 on: March 08, 2018, 08:13:18 AM »
I know we try to avoid politicial discussions here. and Frankly I try save for the odd political joke.

But did you notice in the list of reasons I gave for saying Politics ARE important I mentioned
that last week I spent in a COE (Federal) park.  Well when the Fed's shut down that park closes and I'd have gotten evicted.

And 2 weeks from now I'll be in a State part.

And for 1/3 of the time between Nov 1 and Mar 1 I was in a COUNTY park.  Though they let me check in on a day they were closed due to weather (not government cry babying but real cold weather. that was also the day I could not fill my on board water tank.. Seems the water in THIS park's pipes had gotten a bit..er.. hard (as in ice)  The County park is frost proof but I waited for warmth before I hooked up.. Not easy to do at that park (lay of the land).

And that kind of thing affects us all. .I recall the questions about Quartsite and the pending Federal shut down just a couple months ago. 

This is one of the reasons Politics is important to US.

THere is a thread somewhere about a city which now fines RVers 500 dollars for parking.

ANd of course No Overnight Parking of RV laws in many areas.

All Politics.
Nothing adds excitement like something that is none of your business
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HappyWanderer

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Re: politics
« Reply #49 on: March 08, 2018, 08:18:01 AM »
No, the rule is no discussion about guns. It is not there so only one side can discuss the issue. What part of no do you not understand?

You might be thinking of another forum. There is no such rule listed for this forum.

The only word loosely related to firearms in the rules is the use of "shotgun" in regards to messages. You can go look it up, I'll wait.
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Sun2Retire

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Re: politics
« Reply #50 on: March 08, 2018, 08:41:08 AM »
You might be thinking of another forum. There is no such rule listed for this forum.

The only word loosely related to firearms in the rules is the use of "shotgun" in regards to messages. You can go look it up, I'll wait.

No need to wait. Discussions regarding guns, other than perhaps where to find specific rules etc, falls under political discussions which is covered in the Forum Rules agreed to by all members.

This is one of the reasons Politics is important to US.

No one said politics doesn't affect all of us, or that politics were unimportant. The point is, there are literally thousands of other venues in which one can discuss politics at length, this is not one of those venues. We don't "try" to not discuss politics, we simply don't - that's one of the rules all members agreed to when joining the forum.

Discussing the actual details and ramifications of a park/area being closed is fine (e.g., "XYZ area is closed, no services available"); commentary, including snide remarks, about why a park is closed is not OK. We're here to discuss RVing, and only RVing, in a light-hearted and friendly fashion (with a the exception of the Shade Tree which is reserved for non-RVing but still non-political, friendly discussions).

The OP brought up a good point, and this discussion has been a good reminder for all regarding forum rules. Even here though some responses are getting needlessly pointed. It would be incredibly ironic if this topic eventually required moderation.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2018, 09:19:29 AM by Sun2Retire »
Scott
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NCSU Dad

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Re: politics
« Reply #51 on: March 08, 2018, 09:10:02 AM »
I hope there is some wiggle room on the forum for firearm discussions. Limited to rules on traveling through various jurisdictions along with storing/securing within the RV.  Maybe not.

Yes there are many firearm forums. The older I get the less time I want to spend as a mouse potato, so the fewer forums I visit so much the better.

Sun2Retire

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Re: politics
« Reply #52 on: March 08, 2018, 09:17:50 AM »
I hope there is some wiggle room on the forum for firearm discussions. Limited to rules on traveling through various jurisdictions along with storing/securing within the RV.  Maybe not.

Yes there are many firearm forums. The older I get the less time I want to spend as a mouse potato, so the fewer forums I visit so much the better.

Discussions such as what the rules are for state-to-state carry, and where to find various publications are informative, non-controversial and comply with Forum rules. Discussions regarding whether guns are necessary, wise, should be legal, etc etc do not comply with the rules.
Scott
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HappyWanderer

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Re: politics
« Reply #53 on: March 08, 2018, 09:23:03 AM »
Discussions such as what the rules are for state-to-state carry, and where to find various publications are informative, non-controversial and comply with Forum rules. Discussions regarding whether guns are necessary, wise, should be legal, etc etc do not comply with the rules.

Perfect! Thank you.

Maybe a sticky note for that post, to remind folks not to derail a conversation.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2018, 09:26:58 AM by HappyWanderer »
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Sun2Retire

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Re: politics
« Reply #54 on: March 08, 2018, 09:29:28 AM »
remind folks not to derail a conversation.

We remind them, a lot. Some still don't get it  ::)
Scott
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Memtb

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Re: politics
« Reply #55 on: March 08, 2018, 09:38:54 AM »
     “Maybe” we could approach the moderators for a separate  “topic category”...pertaining to the “taboo” topics. A topic category of “near” anything ( some restrictions would have to be adhered to) goes! A place to argue, fight, assasinate others with our keyboards.

    Sensitive topics “will” occur.....let’s create a place for it.  If your easily “ butt-hurt”, then “do not” venture into that “topic category”.

     There are many “topic categories”, that I have no interest in....and I do not follow.  The “topic category” could/would/should have a form of disclaimer....stating “enter at your own risk”!
Todd and Marianne
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Sun2Retire

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Re: politics
« Reply #56 on: March 08, 2018, 10:08:01 AM »
     “Maybe” we could approach the moderators for a separate  “topic category”...pertaining to the “taboo” topics. A topic category of “near” anything ( some restrictions would have to be adhered to) goes! A place to argue, fight, assasinate others with our keyboards.

    Sensitive topics “will” occur.....let’s create a place for it.  If your easily “ butt-hurt”, then “do not” venture into that “topic category”.

     There are many “topic categories”, that I have no interest in....and I do not follow.  The “topic category” could/would/should have a form of disclaimer....stating “enter at your own risk”!

Well, I don't make the rules here, but if I did I'd vote no. As has been mentioned, if someone feels a need to talk about "taboo" subjects there already exist many venues for such discussions. It is not necessary that every forum host every discussion - this forum is for RVs. It's a simple rule, easy to understand but seemingly hard to follow.

In my opinion, there's already too much bickering in the world. I come here, as my singular exception to my "no social media" policy, to get away from that, enjoy conversations with those with a shared interest, and to learn (and occasionally offer something in return). Again, I don't make the rules, I just try (along with the many other volunteers) to help to keep folks between the lines.

Life's short. Wag more, bark less.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2018, 10:10:42 AM by Sun2Retire »
Scott
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Tom

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Re: politics
« Reply #57 on: March 08, 2018, 10:08:28 AM »
Quote from: Memtb
“Maybe” we could approach the moderators for a separate  “topic category”...pertaining to the “taboo” topics. A topic category of “near” anything ( some restrictions would have to be adhered to) goes! A place to argue, fight, assassinate others with our keyboards.

We tried that some years ago, specifically with political discussions. Moderator Carl Lundquist, also a moderator on a political forum, volunteered to be Sheriff. Carl did a good job, but we eventually shut that section down.
Tom.  Need help? Click the Help button in the toolbar above.

SargeW

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Re: politics
« Reply #58 on: March 08, 2018, 10:09:27 AM »
I have seen that attempted on other forums, and simply it doesn't work. That is because there is always "bleed over" into the other forums from a prior heated discussion or personal attack on a member.  It is better to have a firm outline of what is acceptable on the forum and stick to it.  I still maintain that this is an RV forum, and should pertain to the subjects that that concern RVing. 

There is one Jeep forum that I used to go to that had a "secret" room. Anything goes conversations were the norm, but the involved persons always felt emboldened by their membership there and conducted themselves similarly in other areas. I no longer post there. Too much drama.
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SeilerBird

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Re: politics
« Reply #59 on: March 08, 2018, 10:19:29 AM »
Life's short. Wag more, bark less.
I love that line Scott. I may steal it from you. ;D

Every morning I go to Google's New page to read the headlines. I love reading the comments section on the articles and listening to the left and the right rip each other to shreds. And it accomplished absolutely zero. Anyone who thinks they can change someone's opinion on politics, religion or guns with an online argument is way too stupid to be believed.
I would like to apologize to anyone I have not yet offended. Please be patient and I will get to you shortly.
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Sun2Retire

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Re: politics
« Reply #60 on: March 08, 2018, 10:50:48 AM »
I love that line Scott. I may steal it from you. ;D

Feel free, you'd be stealing from the thief: I "borrowed" it from a sticker I bought. I love how, in just four words, it conveys a commentary on an approach to life and interaction with others, plus a love of dogs.

Anyone who thinks they can change someone's opinion on politics, religion or guns with an online argument is way too stupid to be believed.

I wouldn't say stupid, maybe just naive. I miss the days, a looong time ago, when one could have an earnest and even pointed political discussion and both "sides" actually listened and considered the opposing thoughts - and occasionally might even say "you know, I hadn't thought about that" or "I see your point". Those days are long gone. I don't know what has caused us all to harden our positions so much, but we all have (I include myself). I don't think I'm exaggerating when I say I don't believe I know more than a couple people that I could have one of the old type of conversations with. At best, even if they're cordial, once of us seems to come away with a "ah, that's what they think about (fill in contentious issue)". It's so tiresome. And sad really, because those conversations could be really interesting and engaging.

On a related issue, another thing I dislike about the internet, and the media in general, is the near total concentration on negativity. And this behavior is easy to get caught up in. What I mean by that is the spreading of negative news that serves no purpose. When a bus runs off a cliff in some distant locale, it serves no positive interest to start a "100 dead in bus accident" thread. I'm sad it happened, wish it hadn't, can't do anything about it. It doesn't make anybody's day better by even bringing it up, so why do it? When you hear that news, presumably you're already affected, stop there, don't spread the negativity. One of my favorite quotes is from Eleanor Roosevelt: "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."
« Last Edit: March 08, 2018, 10:53:11 AM by Sun2Retire »
Scott
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TonyDtorch

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Re: politics
« Reply #61 on: March 08, 2018, 11:19:50 AM »
Thank you for that Tony. That is two of the offenders who have now apologized so this thread is having a positive effect. This thread will be a great response to anyone in the future that starts to talk about politics or guns.

It goes both ways Tom,  I'm still waiting for you to apologize for calling me a BSer and liar....(do you remember ? )

I told you that Remington arms has filed for bankruptcy because of a sudden decrease of sales since Trumps election...you called me a total liar.

It's okay,    I knew you would never look it up on Google or Snopes and get back to me.   

« Last Edit: March 08, 2018, 11:23:31 AM by TonyDtorch »

SeilerBird

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Re: politics
« Reply #62 on: March 08, 2018, 11:20:42 AM »
Quote
I wouldn't say stupid, maybe just naive.
Well when they try and fail the first time they are being naive but when they keep trying to argue again and again and again that is just plain stupidity.
I would like to apologize to anyone I have not yet offended. Please be patient and I will get to you shortly.
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SeilerBird

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Re: politics
« Reply #63 on: March 08, 2018, 11:22:57 AM »
It goes both ways Tom,  I'm still waiting for you to apologize for calling me a liar.

I told you that Remington arms has filed for bankruptcy because of a sudden decrease of sales since Trumps election...you called me a total liar.   I knew you would never look it up on Snopes and come back to me.
I believe that it filed for bankruptcy, that is indisputable. The part I called you out on dealt with the fact that it was caused because of Trump being elected.

"The company has approximately $950 million in debt, aggravated in part by millions in product liability claims it has paid over the years."

I am sorry you were offend but you were wrong.
I would like to apologize to anyone I have not yet offended. Please be patient and I will get to you shortly.
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TonyDtorch

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Re: politics
« Reply #64 on: March 08, 2018, 11:32:10 AM »
Keep reading and you will read a quote from the CEO of Remington.

here..is one article ...https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2018/02/13/remington-bankruptcy-plan-new-wound-americas-oldest-gunmaker/332888002/

I'll post some more.

https://nypost.com/2018/02/12/gunmaker-remington-filing-for-bankruptcy/

Are you one of those guys that gets all of your news from the Jimmy Kimmel show .... :D
« Last Edit: March 08, 2018, 11:39:46 AM by TonyDtorch »

kdbgoat

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Re: politics
« Reply #65 on: March 08, 2018, 11:39:36 AM »
Somebody may as well lock this one now. :(
I know you believe you understand what you think I said,
But I am not sure you realize what you heard is not what I meant


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Tom

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Re: politics
« Reply #66 on: March 08, 2018, 11:40:16 AM »
Folks, it's time to take your personal differences to PM or email. We/I have no desire to watch you duke it out, taking this topic downhill. Thanks.
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TonyDtorch

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Re: politics
« Reply #67 on: March 08, 2018, 11:54:10 AM »
I'm not mad at anyone, I kinda like Tom , he's weird, but he liked Linda Ronstadt    ...so how bad can he be..... 8)

whether it's Guns, politics, or RVs,  I still try to learn new things everyday......If I'm wrong about something I think I already know... I would like someone to call me on it.

Thank you Tom and everyone else.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2018, 12:00:49 PM by TonyDtorch »

FunSteak

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Re: politics
« Reply #68 on: March 08, 2018, 12:09:11 PM »
Anyone who thinks they can change someone's opinion on politics, religion or guns with an online argument is way too stupid to be believed.

Never try to teach a pig to sing.  It wastes your time and annoys the pig.
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Re: politics
« Reply #69 on: March 08, 2018, 01:46:33 PM »
"Elwood P. Dowd: Years ago, my mother used to say to me, she'd say "In this world, Elwood, you can be oh so so smart, or oh so pleasant." Well, for years I was smart... I recommend pleasant. You may quote me. "  -- Jimmy Stewart in the movie "Harvey"

One of my favorite movies  :) ;)

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Re: politics
« Reply #70 on: March 08, 2018, 04:56:40 PM »
No need to wait. Discussions regarding guns, other than perhaps where to find specific rules etc, falls under political discussions which is covered in the Forum Rules agreed to by all members.
 

So now any mention of guns is considered political?  I only say that because many of us carry weapons in our RVs and, at times, like to discuss them or ask questions of a general nature.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2018, 05:00:16 PM by Bill N »
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Sun2Retire

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Re: politics
« Reply #71 on: March 08, 2018, 05:06:24 PM »
So now any mention of guns is considered political?  I only say that because many of us carry weapons in our RVs and, at times, like to discuss them or ask questions of a general nature.

Please re-read my earlier post:

"Discussions such as what the rules are for state-to-state carry, and where to find various publications are informative, non-controversial and comply with Forum rules. Discussions regarding whether guns are necessary, wise, should be legal, etc etc do not comply with the rules."
« Last Edit: March 08, 2018, 05:14:14 PM by Sun2Retire »
Scott
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Yonder

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Re: politics
« Reply #72 on: March 08, 2018, 05:30:57 PM »
Has anybody read shoGUN?

Okay, maybe I need to book more billable hours to stay off-line and, yes, I am a newbie here but...  Sheesh people!  Can't we grow a little bit of a hide? We're beginning to sound like a bunch of retired folk who have nothing better to do than type arguments. This is a great forum for getting an education about something I think we all love.  It's a stinkin' shame that the division in our country is so patterned here too.
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Oldgator73

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Re: politics
« Reply #73 on: March 08, 2018, 05:40:22 PM »
Has anybody read shoGUN?
We're beginning to sound like a bunch of retired folk who have nothing better to do than type arguments.

I resemble that accusation. I retired twice so does that mean I get to type Arguments squared?  ;D
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glen54737

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Re: politics
« Reply #74 on: March 08, 2018, 06:00:21 PM »
I was disappointed that real RV related questions got locked due to the political debate the ensued. :(
Like the ones about RV parks and national parks and the government shutdown.
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Yonder

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Re: politics
« Reply #75 on: March 08, 2018, 06:03:32 PM »
Oldgator ... If you've retired twice then you are much smarter than I.  Been self-employed too long to retire yet though I am beyond the age ... IF you do argue squared, one of them has to be on my behalf.  ;D
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Re: politics
« Reply #76 on: March 08, 2018, 06:22:52 PM »
Now might be a good time to move on from this discussion  ???
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Re: politics
« Reply #77 on: March 08, 2018, 06:33:36 PM »
 :))   I've always loved the way you gently chide us into behaving ourselves.  Best moderator on the internet!  :)
« Last Edit: March 08, 2018, 06:35:39 PM by Tom and Margi »

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Re: politics
« Reply #78 on: March 08, 2018, 06:42:00 PM »
Thanks Margi, although I don't always live up to that standard  :-[
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Re: politics
« Reply #79 on: March 08, 2018, 07:02:09 PM »
Thanks to our esteemed administrator I have been made aware of the "Ignore Post" feature of the board.  I decided to use it for one poster and it works perfectly and my blood pressure dropped 20 points.  Try it if you have a poster or two that just trip your trigger every time you see their post.  By the way, I am not kidding about that blood pressure thing.   

Bill
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Re: politics
« Reply #80 on: March 08, 2018, 07:05:47 PM »
Aye Bill, there are a few folks I'd love to add to my 'ignore' list (in your Profile) but, as Admin, I have no choice but to see all forum posts.
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Re: politics
« Reply #81 on: March 11, 2018, 10:10:00 AM »
HOLY COW! This has been one roller coaster of a thread! I just stumbled over it and ended up drinking 3 cups of coffee while reading it.  My teeth are clattering from the caffeine overdose!

I think it fair to say everyone here has slipped up at one time or another. Myself included.
Can't we all just get along? Yes we can! If we all just put our mind to it.
Mark

1994 Jayco Eagle 370FB on 24 acres of paid off paradise in Michigan.

You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself any direction you choose.
Dr. Seuss

TonyDtorch

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Re: politics
« Reply #82 on: March 11, 2018, 12:06:55 PM »
Back to politics in an RV context...

How can you talk about Rv things without getting into politics,    When one the favorite places to go in an RV could be California or Detroit ?

and whenever you talk about a RV related problem in a state or place,  it could be politically affected or related.....so someone always get their feelings hurt.


Everyone is too politically polarized.    Guns, politics, religion...  Americans should be fighting to fix the problems,  and not fighting for a team.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2018, 12:27:52 PM by TonyDtorch »

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Re: politics
« Reply #83 on: March 11, 2018, 12:08:20 PM »
C'mon.  Enough is enough.

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Re: politics
« Reply #84 on: March 11, 2018, 12:33:46 PM »
OK, lets take a DEEP BREATH. Good. Now moving on......
Marty--
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Re: politics
« Reply #85 on: March 11, 2018, 12:42:42 PM »
How can you talk about Rv things without getting into politics, 

Well, somehow I've managed over 2000 posts (not including when I was on in the CompuServe days) without getting into politics. But I'm new - Gary, our RV Wizard, is just about to pass 62,000 posts, and somehow he's managed to follow the rules as well. There isn't a question about whether or not politics can be discussed on the forum, so raising the point is..... pointless.

Enough is enough.

 :))

Now moving on......

 :))
Scott
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Re: politics
« Reply #86 on: March 11, 2018, 01:18:58 PM »
I agree ...and so I will.

Tom

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Re: politics
« Reply #87 on: March 11, 2018, 01:38:43 PM »
Tony left a farewell message.
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Oldgator73

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Re: politics
« Reply #88 on: March 11, 2018, 03:08:50 PM »
Tony left a farewell message.

Tony and I had our disagreements but I'm sad he left the forum. I left for a short period last year, took a break. Found I missed it. I do enjoy a good political argument but this isn't the place for it. I can go to FB and argue. Maybe Tony will reconsider like I did. Hopefully so.
Retired Air Force
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Re: politics
« Reply #89 on: March 11, 2018, 03:17:06 PM »
How many post did Tony have?
Rene, Lucille & co-pilot Buddy
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Re: politics
« Reply #90 on: March 11, 2018, 03:31:10 PM »
Personally I am somewhat happy disrupters have left. Some people just can’t let things go.
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Re: politics
« Reply #91 on: March 11, 2018, 03:38:54 PM »
Hey, there is not many more opinionated than me, but I learned my lesson quite a while ago that you only make a fool of yourself by charging into these types of discussions.  I hate to see anyone leave, but sometimes people need to take the break Oldgator referenced, then come back with a different attitude.  Hope so!

Ed
Ed & Donna
Winter-Pinellas Park FL, Summer- Maritime Canada
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Re: politics
« Reply #92 on: March 11, 2018, 04:10:17 PM »
Someone mentioned "California or Detrtoit"...

I kind of feel the need to commernt on that. You see. I was born in California, and you see my screen name.

If you post something critical of either location.. I won't mind
If you post something praising either location.. I might say "Thank you" but unlikely.

In short. in neither case will I be offended.

Two rules some science fiction author purposed as all the rules you need.

1: Do not, unnecessarily offend others.
2: Do not be too easily offended.

The only thing that truly offends me are liars and con-artists.
Nothing adds excitement like something that is none of your business
My Home is where I park it.

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Re: politics
« Reply #93 on: March 11, 2018, 08:04:39 PM »
Wish I never started the topic now.
I know you believe you understand what you think I said,
But I am not sure you realize what you heard is not what I meant


2016 Leprechaun 319DS

Tom

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Re: politics
« Reply #94 on: March 11, 2018, 08:10:38 PM »
Quote from: kdbgoat
Wish I never started the topic now.

Don't regret it. This was a good discussion, and opened up some folks to how they're perceived by others.
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Re: politics
« Reply #95 on: March 11, 2018, 08:37:35 PM »
Wish I never started the topic now.

Please don't regret starting the topic.  It was a subject whose time had come and I think the forum is better for the discussion.

Sun2Retire

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Re: politics
« Reply #96 on: March 11, 2018, 08:38:30 PM »
I think the forum is better for the discussion.

 :))
Scott
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Re: politics
« Reply #97 on: March 11, 2018, 08:38:46 PM »
Thanks Margi  :))
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Re: politics
« Reply #98 on: March 11, 2018, 08:52:58 PM »
Don't regret it. This was a good discussion, and opened up some folks to how they're perceived by others.



 :-X    :-X      :-X
07 Itasca Meridian 34SH.  '08 Jeep Sahara.
Taos, NM.

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Re: politics
« Reply #99 on: March 11, 2018, 11:54:55 PM »
Quote
HOLY COW! This has been one roller coaster of a thread!
I think it fair to say everyone here has slipped up at one time or another. Myself included.
This has been a frustrating topic to follow. Started out great, but then a few self righteous people had to get involved, as they always do and the topic went in the toilet from there. And I’m NOT talking about the Forum Staff or our Administrator. They do a great job of moderating this forum. Everyone else should let them do their job. I’ve seen topics closed because someone with no interest in the topic, but wasn’t happy with a few posts got the staff involved and then the topic was closed.

As to guns, I’ve read all the rules and I don’t see any rule specifically excluding posting about guns. If I missed it please show me the rule, and I will apologize.
Gene

2013 Winnebago Adventurer 37F
2011 Honda Fit

Bill N

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Re: politics
« Reply #100 on: March 12, 2018, 06:56:04 AM »
This topic continues to survive despite having a title that draws people like flies and encourages dissension (some are calling it discussion).  It has become something like this country - divided - I  personally intend to ignore any further posts on the topic but would like to tell Seilerbird that this is NOT an apology to him but is to others if I have disturbed you in any way.

Bill
Bill & Joan N in Missouri
USAF (Ret - 1961-1981)
2002 Winnebago Adventurer 35U
Workhorse W22, 8.1L Chevy V8
2013 Chevy Sonic Toad
Furbearers:  Heidi-17(Forever), Cats: Grace-11 & Squeak-6, Winnie the ShihTzu - 16 mos

Sun2Retire

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Re: politics
« Reply #101 on: March 12, 2018, 07:11:41 AM »
As to guns, I’ve read all the rules and I don’t see any rule specifically excluding posting about guns.

There isn’t. The problem arises when a gun discussion strays into issues such as gun control, whether guns are necessary or a good idea, various political party’s positions on guns, etc etc (which regretfully almost always happens). At that point the discussion has morphed into a political discussion, which is addressed in the forum rules. Discussions limited to factual issues such as where to find information on, for example, state-to-state transport of firearms, is fine.

Scott
Fulltiming in a 2005 Newmar Dutch Star 3810, Spartan, Cat C7 350
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2002 Dodge RAM 1500 Quad Cab toad
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denmarc

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Re: politics
« Reply #102 on: March 12, 2018, 08:28:24 AM »
The plot thickens...

Thanks Tom and fellow moderators for keeping this topic open. I feel that it didn't get too out of hand. And it also gave a few a chance to blow off a little steam. Sorry to see Tony leave. But I would bet he is still lurking. That's ok. I don't want him to go away mad. I still respect his opinion.

We all agreed to the terms and conditions when we joined the forum. The rules are clear. We all make mistakes and maybe say something we shouldn't have. It's easy to let our opinions carry us away and spew them in a post. Time to be a bit humble. Knowledge and experience is a wonderful thing. To teach is even more beneficial. That is what this forum is all about. 

Respect of others and the rules are key. Keep them in mind and this forum will continue to thrive.

Mark

1994 Jayco Eagle 370FB on 24 acres of paid off paradise in Michigan.

You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself any direction you choose.
Dr. Seuss

Dragginourbedaround

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Re: politics
« Reply #103 on: March 12, 2018, 10:32:11 AM »
There isn’t. The problem arises when a gun discussion strays into issues such as gun control, whether guns are necessary or a good idea, various political party’s positions on guns, etc etc (which regretfully almost always happens). At that point the discussion has morphed into a political discussion, which is addressed in the forum rules. Discussions limited to factual issues such as where to find information on, for example, state-to-state transport of firearms, is fine.


Thanks Scott, I  understand. I was making a point for those who think every time the word gun pops into the conversation it’s against the rules and it’s not. Morphing from guns to politics is.
Gene

2013 Winnebago Adventurer 37F
2011 Honda Fit

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Re: politics
« Reply #104 on: March 12, 2018, 03:04:30 PM »
Wow, I was going to get my $.02 in but after reading Tom's post about maybe it's time to move on, figured why bother.  The thread was going to be shut down.  However, since it hasn't, my thoughts. 

I'd like to see a section in the Forum for issues directly related to politics.  Some things effect all of us.  For example, selling public lands.  Then, funding those public lands so they can remain open.  More importantly, our crumbling infrastructure.  The ability to get to those lands.  The number of roads that require major work, a huge inconvenience.  The number of bridges that could collapse beneath our rigs, frightening (think of the I35 bridge in Minneapolis).  Others effect some of us.  Things like social security and medicare.  These are critically important issues that aren't going away.   

My perspective on most things is influenced largely by the people I associate with.  That said, I'm usually surrounded by like minded people.  That's not the best way to develop a well rounded view.  Personally I like political discussions and usually learn something.  I like to listen to the view point of the other side.  It helps me understand it.  It also could change my mind.  But that will never happen if that view starts by denigrating mine.  That's where the administrator and moderators come in.   

At the end of the day, we all have more in common than our elected officials would have us believe.   
Gary B1st

2005 Pace Arrow 35G
2016 Jeep Wrangler


Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.

Tom

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Re: politics
« Reply #105 on: March 12, 2018, 03:15:58 PM »
Quote from: garyb1st
I'd like to see a section in the Forum for issues directly related to politics.

Gary, I understand and empathize with your intent but, as I said in an earlier message, we tried that and eventually had to shut down the 'section', as they were called back then.
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blw2

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Re: politics
« Reply #106 on: March 12, 2018, 03:20:38 PM »
There are about a half a dozen members here, on "both sides of the aisle" that seem to have to interject politics in every thing they post. Some blatant, some veiled. Everyone here knows who I'm talking about and which side they're on. If you really need to put your politics out there on the web, do an internet search for political forums, find one or two or a hundred you like and post there. The RV Forum is not the place. It's getting really old and serves no useful purpose except to spread hate, discontentment, and division among our members. That's opposite of the purpose of this forum. Don't take me wrong, though I may disagree with someone, I would still be happy to sit around a campfire with them, and have them join me at the dinner table, as one member here has done with me.

I actually disagree....

I cannot tell you one username here that has really abused what I would call good decorum...and I certainly cannot tell you on which side of the opinion aisle anyone here falls on.  It just comes down to the simple fact that I am open minded enough and just plain old don't keep notes.

Maybe the worst of them have been cleaned up before I ever see them....but I certainly have never seen personal attacks.... and I log in here quite often....

Once in a while I'll see a post that hangs 'over the edge' and I'll maybe cringe a bit.... but honestly I get my dander up more when I see locked threads over these some little thing because I enjoy honest discussions and 'hearing' both sides.  I think it helps us all grow.
Brad (DW + 3 kids)
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'05 Rockwood Freedom 1910 (5-1/2 years)
former tent campers

SargeW

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Re: politics
« Reply #107 on: March 12, 2018, 03:24:22 PM »
Most of those types of comments are cleaned up or moved by a mod before they hang around too long. They usually are not excessively bad, usually just some name calling of a personal nature. That is usually a flag that things are deteriorating fast. 
Marty--
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Tom

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Re: politics
« Reply #108 on: March 12, 2018, 03:32:08 PM »
Quote
...I certainly have never seen personal attacks...

Might be because they were moved out of sight  ??? Some of the worst offenders of personal attacks seem to have calmed down quite a bit, but every now and again a simple comment will light their fuse.

Quote from: blw2
.... but honestly I get my dander up more when I see locked threads over these some little thing ...

Hopefully you don't see many of those here. Sometimes we lock a topic that is clearly about to go into a downward spiral, trying to prevent things getting out of hand. It's a judgement call, and we (I) don't always get it right.

BTW forum staff talk about all this stuff in the back room, so we might be more aware of the issues than regular forum members.
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Utclmjmpr

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Re: politics
« Reply #109 on: March 12, 2018, 09:08:19 PM »
 I used to get involved in most of the political arguments, I'm known in some circles as being "outspoken" and will accept that as mostly true,,,so I have been trying to stay in the technical area where most of my experience and enjoyment is,,but some things still can  set me afire.>>>Dan  (Even though total stupidity is difficult to discuss we still know it exists)
« Last Edit: March 12, 2018, 09:12:19 PM by Utclmjmpr »
38' American Tradition 38TT/330 turbo Cummins
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Cedar City, Utah
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The difference between intelligence & stupidity is: intelligence has it's limits
      Albert Einstein.

Humanaquarian

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Re: politics
« Reply #110 on: March 12, 2018, 10:17:50 PM »
I scrolled through most of this and it’s the same old drama in every form ever made. The internet destroys just as easy as it brings together. If you stick to RV passion you can’t go wrong. Politics Schmolitics.
2011 Coachmen 220LE

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Re: politics
« Reply #111 on: March 12, 2018, 10:19:45 PM »
Did I come at a bad time?

Sun2Retire

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Re: politics
« Reply #112 on: March 12, 2018, 10:28:03 PM »
Did I come at a bad time?


Now that, that was a true laugh out loud moment  :D
Scott
Fulltiming in a 2005 Newmar Dutch Star 3810, Spartan, Cat C7 350
Eezrv TPMS, 970W Solar, Tri-Metric Battery monitor
2002 Dodge RAM 1500 Quad Cab toad
Stowmaster towbar & Brakemaster toad braking system

Sun2Retire

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Re: politics
« Reply #113 on: March 12, 2018, 11:03:49 PM »
I cannot tell you one username here that has really abused what I would call good decorum

As both Tom and Marty said, often the moderators clean up before you see it. It's certainly not raging, but it happens

Quote
but honestly I get my dander up more when I see locked threads over these some little thing

I'm certain I speak for all the mods when I say that the decision to lock a topic is not taken lightly, and typically not without giving a fairly clear hint that the thread is going astray.

Quote
I enjoy honest discussions and 'hearing' both sides.  I think it helps us all grow


As I said in an earlier post, I also enjoy honest discussions as I believe most do. But I don't come here to hear "sides" or grow - there are plenty of other places to do that and where "sides" is all one hears. Here there are no "sides", we're all on the same side: to enjoy and discuss RVing. This is "the friendliest place on the web" and we're working to keep it that way with as light a touch as possible, even if we inadvertently get your, and no doubt others' dander up occasionally. It's nice to have a place to peruse, where the most contentious discussion centers on which brand of TP is best for RVs.  :)
Scott
Fulltiming in a 2005 Newmar Dutch Star 3810, Spartan, Cat C7 350
Eezrv TPMS, 970W Solar, Tri-Metric Battery monitor
2002 Dodge RAM 1500 Quad Cab toad
Stowmaster towbar & Brakemaster toad braking system

Larry N.

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Re: politics
« Reply #114 on: March 13, 2018, 07:11:59 AM »
Quote
It's nice to have a place to peruse, where the most contentious discussion centers on which brand of TP is best for RVs.

Amen!
Larry and Mary Ann N.
2016 Newmar Ventana 3709 -ISB6.7 XT 360HP
2015 Wrangler Sahara Unlimited toad
Formerly: Trailmanor 2720SL, Bounder, Beaver
  de N8GGG

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Re: politics
« Reply #115 on: March 13, 2018, 07:32:51 AM »
I scrolled through most of this and it’s the same old drama in every form ever made. The internet destroys just as easy as it brings together. If you stick to RV passion you can’t go wrong. Politics Schmolitics.

Now there is a topic that could be discussed with some useful thoughts - the internet:  Good/Bad/Indifferent. 
Some may have seen one of those recent murder shows where two 12 year old girls in Wisconsin attempted to murder another 12 year old girl because they thought it would relieve them of being killed by some internet character named Slender Man.  Despite stabbing the victim 19 times, she survived but the two perpetrators go 25 and 40 year sentences in a mental health facility.

Maybe I will start a thread like that in the Shade Tree and hope it would not fall into politics or guns.  There is a lot of fertile ground there that could be talked about without broaching those two areas.  I personally wish the internet had never come about but that would be like saying I wish the Wright brothers never got off the ground......lol

Bill
Bill & Joan N in Missouri
USAF (Ret - 1961-1981)
2002 Winnebago Adventurer 35U
Workhorse W22, 8.1L Chevy V8
2013 Chevy Sonic Toad
Furbearers:  Heidi-17(Forever), Cats: Grace-11 & Squeak-6, Winnie the ShihTzu - 16 mos

catblaster

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Re: politics
« Reply #116 on: March 13, 2018, 07:44:14 AM »
Now there is a topic that could be discussed with some useful thoughts - the internet:  Good/Bad/Indifferent. 
Some may have seen one of those recent murder shows where two 12 year old girls in Wisconsin attempted to murder another 12 year old girl because they thought it would relieve them of being killed by some internet character named Slender Man.  Despite stabbing the victim 19 times, she survived but the two perpetrators go 25 and 40 year sentences in a mental health facility.

Maybe I will start a thread like that in the Shade Tree and hope it would not fall into politics or guns.  There is a lot of fertile ground there that could be talked about without broaching those two areas.  I personally wish the internet had never come about but that would be like saying I wish the Wright brothers never got off the ground......lol

Bill

OK I'll bite this one.....Glad the internet is here! Mental illness is just as it was before the internet, centuries ago the two girls would have burned the other one at the stake or had the government lobotomize her. Yhe lies broadcast by the internet are no different that the ones spread by other medias, remember when newspapers  printed that cigarettes were healthy because they killer germs........its SSDD...same stuff, different day.

On political discussions.....Will someone please pass the popcorn!!
Will and Jane
95 Winnebago Luxor

Oscar Mike

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Re: politics
« Reply #117 on: March 13, 2018, 08:00:52 AM »
I just had to comment before this "discussion" was closed. I would agree that Tom and the rest of the staff do a pretty good job. Personally I enjoy the strict guidelines concerning hotbed topics. In my personal life I have adopted a policy of refusing to discuss politics, religion (not to be confused with faith), and personal protection.

Good job Tom and staff. To the rest of the community (well most of you folks) thank you for the conversation, banter, and the occasional chuckle.


HappyWanderer

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Re: politics
« Reply #118 on: March 13, 2018, 08:19:37 AM »

{Snip}  In my personal life I have adopted a policy of refusing to discuss politics, religion (not to be confused with faith), and personal protection.


Please, no condom topics!
WARNING: This post may contain a chemical known to the State of California to cause cancer, or birth defects or other reproductive harm.

Oscar Mike

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Re: politics
« Reply #119 on: March 13, 2018, 08:22:42 AM »

Oldgator73

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Re: politics
« Reply #120 on: March 13, 2018, 08:45:29 AM »
I was going to post a long comment here but we have had a bit of an emergency arise. When I exited the shower this morning my wife noticed I had a huge crack right up the center of my butt. She is taking me to the ER to have it checked out. Haven't seen my butt in years so don't know when or why this occurred. I'll keep you posted as to the outcome/diagnosis.
Retired Air Force
2016 Winnie Drop
2016 Nissan Frontier

lynnmor

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Re: politics
« Reply #121 on: March 13, 2018, 09:03:54 AM »
my wife noticed I had a huge crack right up the center of my butt.

Now we are right in the middle of a political discussion.

Rene T

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Re: politics
« Reply #122 on: March 13, 2018, 12:32:43 PM »
If it was vertical, you're OK. If it was horizontal, you've got a big problem.
Rene, Lucille & co-pilot Buddy
AKA  Pep N Mem
2011 Chevy Duramax 2500 HD 4X4
2011 Montana High Country 343RL
From the Granite State of NH
& Florida Snowbird in Lakeland FL

jackiemac

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Re: politics
« Reply #123 on: March 13, 2018, 01:22:31 PM »
If it was vertical, you're OK. If it was horizontal, you've got a big problem.
😃😃😃😃
Jackie n Steve - Happy Scottish Travellers

2017 Heartland Sundance 288rls
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Travelling in US until 30th October 2018

Oldgator73

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Re: politics
« Reply #124 on: March 13, 2018, 01:59:26 PM »
Just got back from the ER. Seems the butt crack is hereditary. My mom, dad and brother have one too.
Retired Air Force
2016 Winnie Drop
2016 Nissan Frontier

Alpena Jeff

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Re: politics
« Reply #125 on: March 13, 2018, 02:37:10 PM »
I wouldn't worry about it then. If it bothers you try super glue. That'll do er.
Jeff & Judy
2016 Newmar Ventana 3427
2018 GMC Canyon All Terrain toad
Blue Ox Aventa LX - RVi3 - EEZRV
Retired to "the lake" in north Michigan

Oldgator73

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Re: politics
« Reply #126 on: March 13, 2018, 02:55:51 PM »
I wouldn't worry about it then. If it bothers you try super glue. That'll do er.

Does Camping World sell super glue in a 55 gal drum? I have a coupon.
Retired Air Force
2016 Winnie Drop
2016 Nissan Frontier

Dreamsend

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Re: politics
« Reply #127 on: March 13, 2018, 04:47:29 PM »
Does Camping World sell super glue in a 55 gal drum? I have a coupon.

Don't know about CW, but Harbor Freight has a knock-off called Stick 2-Ya that might work .  EVERYONE has HF coupons if you need one.
Linda with kitty Sara
2019 Outdoors RV Timber Ridge
27BHS
2017 Ford F250 Lariat aka Gypsy Rose

Oldgator73

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Re: politics
« Reply #128 on: March 13, 2018, 05:11:59 PM »
Don't know about CW, but Harbor Freight has a knock-off called Stick 2-Ya that might work .  EVERYONE has HF coupons if you need one.

Great idea! I can get the big box of nitrile gloves at the same time. Thanks!
Retired Air Force
2016 Winnie Drop
2016 Nissan Frontier

BinaryBob

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Re: politics
« Reply #129 on: March 13, 2018, 05:45:51 PM »
ROGFL... I see Oldgator's been hittin the beer.. ;D ;D
2004 Itasca Suncruiser 37B
2016 Winnebago Adventurer 37F

Sun2Retire

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Re: politics
« Reply #130 on: March 13, 2018, 08:31:12 PM »
This topic has taken a turn for the worst. The mods are all huddled in the back room feverishly pouring through the forum rules looking for a reason to shut it down  ;) ;D
Scott
Fulltiming in a 2005 Newmar Dutch Star 3810, Spartan, Cat C7 350
Eezrv TPMS, 970W Solar, Tri-Metric Battery monitor
2002 Dodge RAM 1500 Quad Cab toad
Stowmaster towbar & Brakemaster toad braking system

Alpena Jeff

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Re: politics
« Reply #131 on: March 13, 2018, 08:43:55 PM »
Hey Gator. You hittin the sauce? We just got back from a great Margarita bar. Check this out...my 90 year old MIL, DW, 2 sister in laws and myself. We've been in Cape Coral since the 1st. My brother in law will be here in 4 days. God help me until then!
« Last Edit: March 13, 2018, 09:23:45 PM by scottydl »
Jeff & Judy
2016 Newmar Ventana 3427
2018 GMC Canyon All Terrain toad
Blue Ox Aventa LX - RVi3 - EEZRV
Retired to "the lake" in north Michigan

LarsMac

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Re: politics
« Reply #132 on: March 13, 2018, 09:36:35 PM »
I love to argue politics, and such. I am a member in three forums that focus on politically charged topics.
I have a good time there, and get into some very heated discussions.

Then I come over here to talk about RV stuff.
I love being here and NOT talking about political stuff.
2000 Itasca Sundancer 430V
2007 Saturn Vue

"The trouble with people isn't that they don't know, but that they know so much that ain't so."

Sun2Retire

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Re: politics
« Reply #133 on: March 13, 2018, 10:08:58 PM »
I come over here to talk about RV stuff.
I love being here and NOT talking about political stuff.


Thank you, we’re glad you’re here
Scott
Fulltiming in a 2005 Newmar Dutch Star 3810, Spartan, Cat C7 350
Eezrv TPMS, 970W Solar, Tri-Metric Battery monitor
2002 Dodge RAM 1500 Quad Cab toad
Stowmaster towbar & Brakemaster toad braking system

Oldgator73

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Re: politics
« Reply #134 on: March 13, 2018, 10:26:17 PM »
Hey Gator. You hittin the sauce? We just got back from a great Margarita bar. Check this out...my 90 year old MIL, DW, 2 sister in laws and myself. We've been in Cape Coral since the 1st. My brother in law will be here in 4 days. God help me until then!

I don't think ya'll could handle me on the sauce.
Retired Air Force
2016 Winnie Drop
2016 Nissan Frontier

Old_Crow

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Re: politics
« Reply #135 on: March 15, 2018, 05:20:01 AM »
Hey Gator. You hittin the sauce? We just got back from a great Margarita bar. Check this out...my 90 year old MIL, DW, 2 sister in laws and myself. We've been in Cape Coral since the 1st. My brother in law will be here in 4 days. God help me until then!

If your brother in law is like mine, he won't be much use to you.  Better to just go back to the Margarita bar.
Wally Crow
Retired 30 year ASE Master Auto Tech
Y2K Bounder 36S F53
'03 Jeep Wrangler Sahara

kdbgoat

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Re: politics
« Reply #136 on: March 15, 2018, 06:06:32 AM »
Just got back from the ER. Seems the butt crack is hereditary. My mom, dad and brother have one too.

Gator- google "crack spackle", it may be just what you need! ;D
I know you believe you understand what you think I said,
But I am not sure you realize what you heard is not what I meant


2016 Leprechaun 319DS

Bill N

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Re: politics
« Reply #137 on: March 15, 2018, 07:16:35 AM »
Ok -back to the thread topic but with a twist.  Yesterday I received a snail mail letter from a person I have never met that contained two pages of anti-???? (political viewpoint) cartoons.  They were all anti-my viewpoints so I assumed I had met this person or corresponded with them somewhere.  They even put a return address on the envelope from another state.  Problem is that I belong to no social media unless things like the RV Forum and MLB comment boards are considered as such but even on those my postings are under anonymous screen names.  This mail bothered me despite having no threats or anything like that.  Why kind of mindset would it take for a person to selectively send out original material (these were clippings from political newspapers) to me?  I looked up the name on the internet (the return address including street, house number and city made that easy) and even got a phone number. I originally intended to just call the person and see where he got my address and what was his beef with me but decided that would only give him my phone number.  But in this day and age of kooks running about (I guess some would describe me in that vein) I felt I should do more so I filed a police report with the police in his city (a nuisance complaint not criminal) and asked that they call and ask him to desist.  Then my wife came in and showed me how easy it was to Google my name and find practically everything about me including the high school I attended  60 years ago.  Of course, my current address was included.  So I guess with the direction this thread has gone you might say my butt crack has tightened considerably.

Bill
Bill & Joan N in Missouri
USAF (Ret - 1961-1981)
2002 Winnebago Adventurer 35U
Workhorse W22, 8.1L Chevy V8
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Furbearers:  Heidi-17(Forever), Cats: Grace-11 & Squeak-6, Winnie the ShihTzu - 16 mos

kdbgoat

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Re: politics
« Reply #138 on: March 15, 2018, 08:00:56 AM »
Yeah Bill, in this internet age, there are no secrets. Anyone can find a lot of info for free on the 'net, and for a few bucks can find out a lot. Not only do they find info on you, the can also target your relatives, and friends/acquaintances
I know you believe you understand what you think I said,
But I am not sure you realize what you heard is not what I meant


2016 Leprechaun 319DS

denmarc

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Re: politics
« Reply #139 on: March 15, 2018, 11:38:39 AM »

Now that, that was a true laugh out loud moment  :D

Understatement!  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Mark

1994 Jayco Eagle 370FB on 24 acres of paid off paradise in Michigan.

You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself any direction you choose.
Dr. Seuss

Bill N

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Re: politics
« Reply #140 on: March 15, 2018, 01:05:26 PM »
The police report I filed above was rejected because it provided 'suspect information.'  Seems those type reports have to be made in person.  I am not traveling  500 miles to make a report.

Bill
Bill & Joan N in Missouri
USAF (Ret - 1961-1981)
2002 Winnebago Adventurer 35U
Workhorse W22, 8.1L Chevy V8
2013 Chevy Sonic Toad
Furbearers:  Heidi-17(Forever), Cats: Grace-11 & Squeak-6, Winnie the ShihTzu - 16 mos

jackiemac

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Re: politics
« Reply #141 on: March 15, 2018, 01:51:46 PM »
The police report I filed above was rejected because it provided 'suspect information.'  Seems those type reports have to be made in person.  I am not traveling  500 miles to make a report.

Bill
You should have "returned to sender" with "not at this address" on the envelope.....  if you get another do that.
Jackie n Steve - Happy Scottish Travellers

2017 Heartland Sundance 288rls
2016 Dodge Ram 2500 6.4L Hemi

Travelling in US until 30th October 2018