ANDERSEN GRAFFITI

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400 years ago the Anasazi people didn't have any other way to preserve their memories.  That's hardly the case today.

They also didn't have thousands of people visiting those sites every year.

There's also a small detail that it is illegal to deface public monuments, historical markers,  etc. punishable by up to $100, 000 fine and a year in jail.
 
Hello Brad, Lou,

Lou Schneider said:
400 years ago the Anasazi people didn't have any other way to preserve their memories.  That's hardly the case today.
They also didn't have thousands of people visiting those sites every year.

With all due respect to  Brad, I agree with Lou. And would also add:
1) the Anasazi (and other Native American) pictographs and petrogliphs were *not* anything remotely like "graffiti; they had important ritual and tribal functions (communications, cartography and astronomy between them). They were not some jerk writing his/her initials on the rock.
2) Studying their rock art allows us a window in their culture, which is not available by other means as most of their traditions were orally transmitted and are therefore lost. Not so with the modern jerks, who have less culture than yoghurt.
3) Even if we disregard the above, aren't we supposedly the "civilized" ones?

Cheers,
--
  Vall.
 
Hello Cadee2c
cadee2c said:
There's also a small detail that it is illegal to deface public monuments, historical markers,  etc. punishable by up to $100, 000 fine and a year in jail.
I did not know there was the possibility of jail time involved, thanks for pointing it out. I really hope the relevant authorities prosecute this guy to the fullest extent of the law, and make an example of him.
--
  Vall.
 
Hi Joe,
Joezeppy said:
I do have contact info for the sales person with whom I traded emails but I'm not a knee-jerk reaction kind of guy and although I appreciated the way they treated me as a customer, I'm really nothing more than that - a customer. I'm going to follow the story and if I feel there is anything I can communicate to the company or owner directly as things unfold, I will.

Of course you are right. If you move forward, tho, please let us know.

Cheers,
--
  Vall.
 
He finally got a good PR guy and apologized. Hope they still fine his ass a huge amount and ban him from public areas. http://fox13now.com/2018/04/05/report-idaho-falls-family-facing-backlash-over-corona-arch-vandalism/
 
Aye, definitely the words of a good PR guy. Good to read the words though.
 
Of course an apology is good, but I?d like to see punishment that matters, and might make him realize just how damaging his ?mistake? was:


1) max fine allowed by law
2) best stone artisan in the US to fix the damage (paid by Mr Andersen of course, plus he has to be in attendance during 100% of the work)
3) couple hundred hours of community service, specifically removing graffiti
4) couple years probation


A case like that would make me enjoy being a judge
 
Damage and restoration aside, whatever happened to forgiveness?

These subjects seem to attract the piranha  :eek:
 
Tom said:
Damage and restoration aside, whatever happened to forgiveness?


Point taken and I?ve turned a lot of cheeks in my day, but I?ve also seen (and worked for) too many who feel societal rules just don?t apply to them. Indeed, if caught and conditions compel them, they will apologize. I hesitate offering forgiveness when I?m doubtful the central figure really is sorry for their act, and not just sorry they were caught. If Mr Andersen pays his dues, is somehow involved in erasing the damage he caused, and is truly contrite I?d agree forgiveness is in order.
 
From his apology letter:

At that moment, I foolishly thought I was conveying my love for my wife when, in fact, I was tarnishing the experience for others who also want to enjoy magnificent scenery.

I think it would be poetic justice if people offered to carve their initials in their booth at the next RV show or to "convey their love" on the products on display.
 
VallAndMo said:
Hello Brad, Lou,

With all due respect to  Brad, I agree with Lou. And would also add:
1) the Anasazi (and other Native American) pictographs and petrogliphs were *not* anything remotely like "graffiti; they had important ritual and tribal functions (communications, cartography and astronomy between them). They were not some jerk writing his/her initials on the rock.
2) Studying their rock art allows us a window in their culture, which is not available by other means as most of their traditions were orally transmitted and are therefore lost. Not so with the modern jerks, who have less culture than yoghurt.
3) Even if we disregard the above, aren't we supposedly the "civilized" ones?

Cheers,
--
  Vall.

Hey, I don't disagree about the civilized thing.....I'll reiterate one more time that I don't support such wall scratching....  Not trying to support these folks for doing that....

but I don't buy any of that glorifying what the ancients did.  Their 'important rituals' in my view were nothing different from the important ritual that these folks supposedly did in expressing their love for each other for some future archaeologist to find.  i see it as no different.  Unsightly and rude.

And i do understand that it's interesting to have a connection to people in the past.  I remember once looking at the entrance steps to a really old hotel with granite steps that had worn severely into a trough by millions of footsteps.  I can't remember where it was exactly, but it was said that Eisenhower, Churchill, and those folks had met there to plan parts of d-day. I imagined all the different people, many famous, some rich, many more not famous at all, some newlywed, some folks sad, some walking in with excitement to their first day on the job, and then years later walking out after their last day of a long career there.... 
Looking at the ancient chicken scratch is kinda like that....but still graffitti, just a different name

 
From the article it was also mentioned he was asked to stop, but disregarded that suggestion.
Not real clear about his kids changing out the plate on his truck, but this was part of the story.
Forgiveness? Honest, real men own up and correct their mistakes.
I read nothing in his apology which stated his return to the site and cleaning up his "conveyance of love for his wife"
Sorry folks, but for me that dog don't hunt.

 
Tom said:
Damage and restoration aside, whatever happened to forgiveness?

These subjects seem to attract the piranha  :eek:
At the present I live in Utah. People outside the state may not realize the huge amount of vandalism that is occurring in our wonderful land. Idiots using thousand year old rock art for target practice, people chisel out dinosaur tracks, those who dig into ancient burials to steal some pot or arrowhead they value while leaving human remains scattered, and yes, idiots who deface natural beauty with graffiti. It is a sore and very hot button with me, and I acknowledge that I have absolutely no sympathy for selfish individuals who destroy beauty that thousands value. What about the idiots who filmed themselves vandalizing Yellowstone pools, tearing up sand flats, and vandalizing other arches? They were Canadian and tried to run across the border. They had to fess up and have big fines plus are prohibited from entering any national park in the US. No sympathy from me for those guys either.
 
Here's a link to his apology. He's not getting a whole lot of sympathy on the internet. People are saying he's only sorry he was caught.

I do feel for the employees though. Social media and journalism can bring businesses to their knees.  It would be sad if that happened.

https://ryan-andersen.org
 
Its like the story of the teacher or parent or whatever who tells the kid to throw the glass on the ground and then apologize to it. Does the apology fix the broken glass? No apologizing is going to fix the rock. The fact that he was asked to stop and didnt, shows that he really didnt give a crap about the damage he was doing. He only apologized after his pocketbook started hurting. Thats not really an apology then in my book.

Forgiveness? While I dont carry any hatred or anything, I have no respect for people like him and will not ever become a customer of his. So, no, I dont forgive him. I will forever think of him as being a jerkface.
 
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