So I have a three phase converter (one of the WFCO ones) that states it will charge in "bulk" at 14.4 and I've seen it do this before because I have a voltage meter hooked up to it. But lately when I go to charge it, it will only charge at 13.4v. I'm using a 2000w inverter generator for charge which is what I've used before but now it won't seem to get up into bulk mode. The temperature was around 54F and I've checked that the battery levels were good. What could I be missing? Is it possible for the converter to go bad like that? Is it the battery? Thanks in advance all!
Battery won't charge at 14.4
- Thread starter omguf
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The battery would need to be discharged to a certain point for the bulk mode to kick in. If the cables or connections from the converter to the battery are marginal, bulk mode becomes unpredictable. WFCO has a poor reputation in regard to this very subject.
Well my battery was completely dead when I hooked it up this last time so I was expecting to see bulk charge mode but I didn't. I'm not sure I'm going to solve this problem. I've decided to replace the battery because I believe that it was failing anyway. I've also come to believe that the converters/chargers that come standard in our units may not be up to the task of charging the battery properly anyway, at least according to Handy Bob:
https://handybobsolar.wordpress.com/the-rv-battery-charging-puzzle-2/
I've taken his advice and procured a 25 amp battery charger that I'm going to use instead and we'll see how that goes. The new battery charges up over 13v pretty good with the charger and it's currently installed. I'm going to monitor the discharge and see how it performs. Supposedly this battery is a 101 AH battery and my old one was a 100 reserve capacity battery which appears to be about a 41 AH battery. Pretty weak by RV standards even for my 17 foot trailer. I'm hoping this will shed some light on my the charging and capacity issues that have plagued me since I bought this new about 2 years ago. If it does, I'll look into investing in a nice Trojan or something and possibly a charger from IOTA or Magnum like Handy Bob mentions in his blog. For about $140 I got the 100 AH battery and the 25 amp charger at Walmart. I figure its worth the money to help me determine if my battery bad and/or my charger was weak. Plus, I'm currently at the beginning of a 4 week dry camp and needed to do something any way...
https://handybobsolar.wordpress.com/the-rv-battery-charging-puzzle-2/
I've taken his advice and procured a 25 amp battery charger that I'm going to use instead and we'll see how that goes. The new battery charges up over 13v pretty good with the charger and it's currently installed. I'm going to monitor the discharge and see how it performs. Supposedly this battery is a 101 AH battery and my old one was a 100 reserve capacity battery which appears to be about a 41 AH battery. Pretty weak by RV standards even for my 17 foot trailer. I'm hoping this will shed some light on my the charging and capacity issues that have plagued me since I bought this new about 2 years ago. If it does, I'll look into investing in a nice Trojan or something and possibly a charger from IOTA or Magnum like Handy Bob mentions in his blog. For about $140 I got the 100 AH battery and the 25 amp charger at Walmart. I figure its worth the money to help me determine if my battery bad and/or my charger was weak. Plus, I'm currently at the beginning of a 4 week dry camp and needed to do something any way...
John From Detroit
Well-known member
Many "Smart" chargers will not turn on if there is no battery present.. So if the battery is completely dead.. They sense "no batt" and refuse to charge.
I have a way to fake around it, but . it is a fake.
I have a way to fake around it, but . it is a fake.
Gary RV_Wizard
Site Team
What John said!
You can try a less sophisticated charger to get some charge into the dead battery, e.g. the 12v outlet port on that genset [if it has one]. A few hours with a single stage or trickle charger may get enough amps into the battery for the WFCO to take over. If not, replace the battery. Most of them don't survive sitting "dead" for weeks or months.
You can try a less sophisticated charger to get some charge into the dead battery, e.g. the 12v outlet port on that genset [if it has one]. A few hours with a single stage or trickle charger may get enough amps into the battery for the WFCO to take over. If not, replace the battery. Most of them don't survive sitting "dead" for weeks or months.
Thanks for the responses everyone! I am determined to get to the bottom of this! 
So after replacing the battery yesterday and charging it up to 12.98v I left it for the day with everything off except my fridge running on propane. My ammeter said it was pulling 4.5w. When I came back around 8 hours later it was reading 12.38. Much lower then I was expecting and I still needed to get through a very cold night last night (got down to around 40F). Now I know temperature is certainly relevant so I was keeping that in mind. After 8 more hours now running the furnace on and off all night I got up and the battery read 12.12v! Which is right is at 50% and depending on the voltage SOC chart you're using, it could be even less than that. I'm using the one published by Trojan which states 12.1 is 50%. The battery I got is Walmart's EverStart and charger is the same brand. I'm not expecting the $50 EverStart charger to be capable of reaching 14.8 (in fact the highest I've seen it is around 14.4)nor am I expecting the battery to perform like a Trojan. I was just hoping this battery at 101AH would last longer than my 41.67 AH Interstate (100 RC * .4167). But it seems to be lasting only as long. That doesn't make sense to me unless the stated ratings are off. The investigation continues. Currently charging the battery back up. I'll update in the next 24 hours. Thanks again everyone!
So after replacing the battery yesterday and charging it up to 12.98v I left it for the day with everything off except my fridge running on propane. My ammeter said it was pulling 4.5w. When I came back around 8 hours later it was reading 12.38. Much lower then I was expecting and I still needed to get through a very cold night last night (got down to around 40F). Now I know temperature is certainly relevant so I was keeping that in mind. After 8 more hours now running the furnace on and off all night I got up and the battery read 12.12v! Which is right is at 50% and depending on the voltage SOC chart you're using, it could be even less than that. I'm using the one published by Trojan which states 12.1 is 50%. The battery I got is Walmart's EverStart and charger is the same brand. I'm not expecting the $50 EverStart charger to be capable of reaching 14.8 (in fact the highest I've seen it is around 14.4)nor am I expecting the battery to perform like a Trojan. I was just hoping this battery at 101AH would last longer than my 41.67 AH Interstate (100 RC * .4167). But it seems to be lasting only as long. That doesn't make sense to me unless the stated ratings are off. The investigation continues. Currently charging the battery back up. I'll update in the next 24 hours. Thanks again everyone!
Ernie n Tara
Well-known member
Note that the 12.98 was surface charge. After charging, leave a light or other small load on fora half hour before measuring the voltage; should be 12.5-12.6 V. Eight hours at that draw could easily drop the Voltage a couple of tenths. Also you need to realize that it can take as long a 20 hrs to reach a full charge using a quality charger.
You may just be expecting too much from the battery. Note that Ammeters measure Amps, not Watts.
Ernie
You may just be expecting too much from the battery. Note that Ammeters measure Amps, not Watts.
Ernie
Ernie n Tara said:
Well I may be using the term ammeter incorrectly because the one I installed shows volts, watts, amps and watt hours. Not sure what to call that but I have it wired directly to my battery and is what I'm using to measure the voltage before/after/during charge. It seems my trailer is always running a small load of around 4.5 watts which I'm assuming is the DC control board in my fridge since nothing else is running even behind the scenes that I can think of. I normally keep the water pump and water heater off until I need them, and I can't think of anything else that just runs. I suppose that might be enough load to get a good reading.. I just came back from being out and left the charger and genset running on auto so I could get as much charge in there that I could and my voltage was reading just bit over 13v after disconnecting the charger. I'll read it again after a half hour has gone by and see what it says. Thanks!
John From Detroit
Well-known member
101 amp hour from Wal*mart sounds like a group 24..
Wal*mart rates the batteries at the ONE AMP discharge rate
NOT the 20 hour (C/20) rate. that way they get a much, much, "Better" rating
That is simply not enough battery for all night use
Wal*mart rates the batteries at the ONE AMP discharge rate
NOT the 20 hour (C/20) rate. that way they get a much, much, "Better" rating
That is simply not enough battery for all night use
John Hilley
Well-known member
That battery is not a true deep cycle battery if it is a Marine/RV battery as it has to be able to start boat motors. I doubt your original battery was only 41 amps. What is the make and model on the old battery?
Your results seem to be what I would expect from that battery.
Your results seem to be what I would expect from that battery.
John From Detroit
Well-known member
Yes, I am saying I would be surprised at any Group 24 lasting the night. Hold on.. The manual I looked at does not list a DC current draw or watts on the motor but I'm guessing 10 amps or so minimum draw. A Group 24 would only give you about 2 hours at that draw. Of course that's run time. not total time. but figure 3-4 hours max total time.
A pair of GC-2 will last much, much longer.
A pair of GC-2 will last much, much longer.
Ok so I'm guessing I need at least 150 amp hour (75 usable at 50% DOD). It seems that should at least get me through quiet time at most campgrounds. So part my issue is that I'm near max on my tongue weight and putting another battery or larger battery there is not really an option. What can I do? I was speaking with a Trojan dealer and he mentioned the T-1275. That's a 150 AH Flooded at around 83 lbs. That would be adding around 35 extra pounds or so to my tongue weight and I'm already close (if not over). I think that would solve the problem but might create another. I could always relocate the battery position off the tongue into my basement compartment, but that's still forward of the axle so at least some of that weight would translate to tongue weight but that might get it far enough away. Only issue there, potentially, is if the battery off gasses it could come into the cabin interior. I really want to be able to dry camp without running the battery down past 50% like I'm currently doing. Ultimately I'd like to be able to get solar going on so I can ditch the generator altogether (except for on cloudy days of course). But until I size the battery for my intended load, I really can't go about figuring solar out. Or can I?
phil-t
Well-known member
You don't want a flooded cell battery in an enclosed compartment. Any chance you could redistribute some of your current load to the rear of the unit, allowing for that battery, or batteries, to stay up front on the tounge?
What is it about your current setup that is limiting the tounge weight?
What is it about your current setup that is limiting the tounge weight?
phil-t said:
So are you suggesting I have a battery on the rear and a battery on the tongue?
Also to answer your question on the tongue weight; the limitation is on my TV. I can only have a max tongue weight of 450 lbs. I'm not 100% sure what my tongue weight is, but I feel confident it's at least 10% of the trailer which has a dry weight of around 3000 lbs. So I'm at 300 lbs tongue weight minimum and if I'm at 15% I'm at the 450 limit before I put anything onboard. So I've loaded the TT with my stuff but I'm not sure how much that has added vs how much I had left. Until I weigh it, which I hope to do very soon, I can't know what amount of tongue weight I might have to work with. It's possible I have up to 100lbs I can add to the tongue and that would help go a long way to solving this problem. It's also possible I'm already overweight on the tongue. But I'd like to figure out what my amp load so I can shop for the right battery then worry about where I need to put it. All I know is 100 AH doesn't seem to be doing the job, which seems a bit surprising. As I was typing this my furnace came on it's pulling around 60w total which includes a 4.5w overhead that just always seems to be there (fridge control board I'm guessing). Fifty AH * 12 volt = 600w. Six hundred watt/60w = 10 hours of run time assuming that's continuous which it is not. The math seems to work out. Simply put, 100 AH battery (assuming I have 100 AH battery at a 20 rating which I probably don't) should be at around 50% or less when morning comes.
