Propane generators?

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Thanks so much for your responses! I've been reading and relaying the information to my sweetiepie. I appreciate all of your help in this! Where's the hug smiley? I want to give you guys hugs!

{{{{{{you guys}}}}}}}}}
 
All good information.  My Keystone Raptor 5er came with an ultra quiet gas ONAN and my toy hauler fuel tank fuels both the toys and the genny.  It really seems to be a fuel mizer and true to it's name, it is most quiet.  I am not impressed that they put the exhaust on the door side of the camper; however, the noise is minimal.  We did look at a used Class A Diesel that had an Onan propane genny and after thinking about having to maintain two fuel supplies (1 for gen, 1 for the Cat), I only looked at units with diesel genny's from there on out.  Of course, I ended up with the 5th wheel and now I have to fuel the hauler with diesel, the genny with gas and propane for cooking, hot water etc....  Not sure how that happened!  Good luck and these guys will steer you right.  Happy trails...... :)
 
That's the misunderstood part about propane generators.  Almost all RVs already have a propane tank for the stove, furnace, and water heater, so a propane generator only makes good sense because it can share the propane tank that you already have.  Even most (if not all) of the high end diesel pushers that have diesel generators still have a propane tank. 

I guess the question then becomes how big of a propane tank is needed?  I don't think too many people will dispute the fact that propane is the best fuel available for the stove, furnace, and water heater.  So why isn't it the best fuel for the generator?  It certainly isn't because the user has to add a propane tank, chances are he already has one.  And it isn't because propane isn't readily available, it is.  And I doubt that it is because propane regulators and gas lines get plugged up frequently, they don't.  So it must be that propane generators aren't as efficient (cost wise) as other fuels, although I have yet to see anyone prove that here.

And there are some advantages to using propane.  One advantage of having propane is that you can use it for more things.  Like catalytic heaters, barbeques, etc.  I don't see too many of these appliances that are diesel or gas fueled.  And if you don't feel comfortable with the smell of diesel fuel or gasoline, propane might be a way to go.  And from a safety standpoint, if you have an LP gas leak detector (most of us do) then you have some protection in case of a propane leak somewhere.  I don't see that offered on diesel or gasoline lines in RVs that have either diesel or gasoline generators.  That's certainly something to consider.
 
Even with all other things being equal (fuel consumption, efficiency, cost, etc.) the propane tank is on the order of 30 gallons while the fuel tank is often 100+ gallons.  You get much more running time from a diesel or gas generator than you can from a propane generator.
 
What Ned Said.  You hook the generator to the LARGEST fuel tank on the rig.  My propane tank holds, per the dealer 24 gallons (At least that is what they billed me for on the last fill up and trust me IT WAS EMPTY)

MY primary Engine tank is 70 Gallons

Clearly I carry more gas than propane.

Jack and Liz, IIRC, can haul up to 300 gallons of Diesel (I'd hate to fill that rig up if it were empty, but then it goes a LONG LONG LONG way on a full tank)

I suspect their propane tanks are not much larger than mine, perhaps 2 of mine.

I'd want to run the genset on the BIG TANK

Trailers do not have a primary engine tank,, They ONLY have propane. (And one other source I'll mention next)

Thus a choice of Diesel, Gasoline, Propane and SOLAR is good.  That way you can pick what you have the most of.
 
Ned said:
Even with all other things being equal (fuel consumption, efficiency, cost, etc.) the propane tank is on the order of 30 gallons while the fuel tank is often 100+ gallons.  You get much more running time from a diesel or gas generator than you can from a propane generator.
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For us another issue is the ease that you can get a specific fuel.  We are happy  that our diesel  motorhome can go through the truck lanes to fill as it is usually a long straight shot and with a toad, that matters.  It has been our experience that many  places to fill for propane do  not  have such a convenient access, therefore the fewer times we need to get propane , the better for us. 
Betty
 
Darn it Betty  that's exactly what I typed and hit the wrong botton and your message popped up  so I'll head back to the dunce corner.
 
To amplify Ned's comments, our previous coach, a DP, had a propane generator, 30 galllon capacity, 24 gallon usable. In 1999 while attending the FMCA convention at Ames, IA, the discomfort level was consistently over 100 degrees. So bad that FMCA waived generator restricted hours. I had to make 3 runs into town to refill the propane tank over the 5 days. A couple of years later, we were at an FMCA Rocky Mountain Rally in Greeley, CO. Temps over 100 at over 6,000' altitude. The combination separated oils in the propane, coating the regulator and stopping the generator. With our current 150 gallon diesel fuel tank we now have, including a diesel generator, we have an operating window of about 200 hours.
 
A propane Genset will burn more than twice the fuel a comparable size diesel or gas gen will.  Given that the propane tanks are less than 40 Gals Bernie's is not alone in his experience with propane gensets.  Like Bernie I would just as soon have the genset burn the same fuel as the engine.  We also fill in the truck islands at the truck stops and just as soon not get propane so often as would be required with a propane genset.
 
I had to make 3 runs into town to refill the propane tank over the 5 days.
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Bernie, IIRC, you were the first or one of the first to make a run to town at QZ this year too, right?  ;D  With 150 gal diesel tank and a diesel generator, it must have been because you had to dump (the black and gray tanks were probably downsized on your rig to make room for that big diesel tank).  ;)  Just kidding of course.....  BTW, how big is your propane tank?

A couple of years later, we were at an FMCA Rocky Mountain Rally in Greeley, CO. Temps over 100 at over 6,000' altitude. The combination separated oils in the propane, coating the regulator and stopping the generator.
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I'd like to know more about this too, is it only the combination of high altitude and warm temperatures that causes this or what? Exactly why and how much oil is there in propane and how does it affect a propane regulator, by restricting the flow of propane?  What did you have to do to rectify it and is there any way to prevent it from happening that you know of?


 
rsalhus said:
Bernie, IIRC, you were the first or one of the first to make a run to town at QZ this year too, right?  ;D  With 150 gal diesel tank and a diesel generator, it must have been because you had to dump (the black and gray tanks were probably downsized on your rig to make room for that big diesel tank).  ;)  Just kidding of course.....  BTW, how big is your propane tank?
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We were kind of lazy when we got to QZ this year and didn't make a propane stop beforehand. Our furnace is propane so, with the cold weather we had, we used up quite a bit of the 40 gallon (usable) propane on board, tho it was far from empty. When we had to go dump, we felt that as long as we were out might as well fill up the propane tank at the same time. By the way, our gray and black tanks are each 60 gallons, so we usually get over a week on them at QZ, tho I can't remember if we had dumped before getting to QZ either.

I'd like to know more about this too, is it only the combination of high altitude and warm temperatures that causes this or what? Exactly why and how much oil is there in propane and how does it affect a propane regulator, by restricting the flow of propane?  What did you have to do to rectify it and is there any way to prevent it from happening that you know of?
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We had the generator repaired (the regulator was replaced, the generator had to be pulled from the coach with a fork lift) at Cummins-Las Vegas. Once the generator was out of the coach, it was cheaper to replace the regulator than to clean it. The work was done at Cummins-Las Vegas and they claimed it was caused by a bad batch of propane. The combination with the altitude and heat probably contributed to the problem, but we never had a repeat of the problem in the 4 years we owned the coach.
 
I kind of wonder if you kept your receipts from all your propane stops, Just how quickly a bad batch of Propane would clog up the regulator and could you bull the supplier for the damage.

They have an obligation to deliver clean fuel after all.
 
John In Detroit said:
I kind of wonder if you kept your receipts from all your propane stops, Just how quickly a bad batch of Propane would clog up the regulator and could you bull the supplier for the damage.

They have an obligation to deliver clean fuel after all.
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John

And how do you prove which supplier provided the bad batch? And that the batch was bad, not your generator?


 
Exactly why and how much oil is there in propane
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is there any way to prevent it from happening that you know of?
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The short answer to your questions are None and Not Much, respectively. I found an excellent study/report, Propane Quality which should answer these questions in more detail. One thing I found interesting (but it should'nt have been surprising) is that newer propane installations use special piping from the tank to the appliances, that doesn't use oil in the manufacturing/fabrication process, as regular black iron gas pipe does. I'm guessing that ambient temperature may vaporize some of the oil already on the inside of the piping, and the gas picks it up as it flows, depositing it in various places like the regulator, and small diameter appliance tubing. Just a theory. 
 
BernieD said:
John

And how do you prove which supplier provided the bad batch? And that the batch was bad, not your generator?
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That is a good question however... I would assume that others might well be having issues too.  If you heard of others having this issue you start comparing filling stations and if all the folks who have problems fill up at one pump.. That's it.

Or you could assume the LAST fill up.

For example.. I once got a bad tank of gas at one station.. I knew which station because about a mile down the road I started having problems and they cleared up with the next tank.

It was that simple
 
John In Detroit said:
Or you could assume the LAST fill up.
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John

You know what happens when you assume. And when you fill up your propane tank hundreds (thousands??) of miles away and weeks (months??)  previously, I don't know of any station owner who would assume the responsibility nor any judge that would make him do it.
 
Understood Bernie however there are really only two possible answers:

1: The oil settles out of the propane and collects in the bottom of the tank. 

2: It was just "loaded" with the last refill

In the first case one would think that the owner would notice "Gee, took me 27 gallons to fill it the first time, and the last time even though I did not have enough gas to light a burner it only took 20 gallons" or some such (A sure indication that something non evaporating is collecting in the tank)

In the second... As I understood the story it was a recent fill up.


However, I do agree.  For most of use it's going to be a real hard road to show where the bad gas came from.

Of course then there is the customer who always fills at the U-Haul 3 blocks from his house... ALWAYS
 
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