Batteries & Bad Back

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Kathy & Bill

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We currently use 2 6v GC batteries in our small camper.  We use a GoPower 80 watt suitcase solar panel for charging.  We like boon-docking in NP's rather than parking lot campgrounds.  Our usage is low; CPAP, small Fan, charging phones/laptop and the usual RV stuff.  Our 6v batteries are nearing their life expectancy (I think) at 6 years old.  I don't have a battery monitor yet but after reading this forum will be getting one.

With the condition of my back (L5/S1) lifting the batteries out of the box and dragging them in/out of the house for the winter (Buffalo NY area) is getting problematic for me.  So my question is; if I went with 2 100Ah 12V LiFePO4 Deep Cycle Batteries, could I leave them in the RV over the winter or should they be removed as well?

Not crazy about the price but it might be a small price to pay not dealing with the 70 lb GC batteries twice a year.

Opinions and Ideas Greatly welcomed.....
 
I have Exide Golf Cart batteries. Below is what user guide says for storage.

Off-Season Storage
Clean Tops
Golf cart batteries are generally stored connected in the golf cart. Before putting cars up for off-season storage, be certain the tops of the batteries are washed clean?this will help to reduce the amount of self-discharge on the batteries.

Self-Discharge
Fully charge the batteries, then store in an unheated area. Heat increases the amount of self-discharge while cold reduces the stand loss characteristics of the storage battery. Physically sound, fully charged batteries, stored at 0?F, self-discharge very little over a four-month period. On the other hand, if the same batteries were stored at 80?F, they would need to be charged about once a month.

Batteries in storage should be checked periodically and when the gravity drops to 1.220 specific gravity. by hydrometer reading, they should be brought back to full
charge.

Because we use the trailer in the winter, I leave the batteries in the trailer with a battery tender hooked up to them.
 
IMO you could leave the batteries in the RV all winter if you had them on a trickle charger all winter. 
A plug in trickle charger not a solar charger.

I have 4 6V batteries in my coach and have never removed them (except when I changed them) from my MH.
My batteries just got changed in Feb of this year lasted almost 10 years.
My MH is plugged in about 80% of the time when at home and is charging anytime it's plugged it or in my case running down the road.



 
Maintain charge or remove! Believe me I sympathize I just  paid $50 to a local tech to remove and replace mine (he also, picked up the new ones).

Ernie
 
I think Bill is asking about storing lithium batteries in sub-freezing temps (Correct me if I'm wrong). There's a fair amount of consensus about not charging them in sub-freezing temps, but storing them isn't quite so clear. The only recommendations I've found were to not store them in temps below 4 degrees F (-20 C) or above 140 F (60 C) and to store them with a partial charge of between 30 to 50%.

Kev
 
I you have power at the storage site you have two options depending on your converter and how much you trust it.

One: Plug in (good trusted converter)
2: Lift the most negative cable (Remember with the jumper installed between the two Six Volt batteries they become one 12 volt) and hook up a Battery Tender or Battery Minder

Feed power just to the small float charger (The teder/minder) Do not remove from RV.

For replacement  Let the guy who sells it do the job. (The battery sales guy)

Option 3: Seek physical assistance.  But I really like option 2 the best.
 
Don C.... whether we are correct in our thinking, it's always been the rule in Western NY that you store batteries above freezing when not being used for a period of time.  That period of time for a Buffalo winter is at least 5 months.  Checking the batteries in storage (a friends barn) is problematic and there is no electric for a tender.

RedandSilver... I think I pulled my batteries below 50% too many times before I got the Solar charger.  10 years out of a set of batteries sounds phenomenal, good for you!

Ernie... right or wrong, that's what I've learned over my years.

Kev... you would be correct.  Looks like I would still need to remove them.  Although it probably doesn't drop to 4 degrees in the barn, at $950 each I wouldn't risk it.  At 30 lbs a piece it would definitely be easier removing them.

John... "Option 3: Seek physical assistance."  I'm turning into a stubborn old man.  I've always taken care of things myself, always been physically active and built my own house pretty much by myself.  I'm having a difficult time letting others help with stuff I could once do with ease.  This is not what I had planned for my Golden Years!

Thanks for the replies... Before I drop $1900 on batteries I plan on doing a power assessment and more research into 12V LiFePO4.  I like the weight loss and the fact I could move the batteries off the tongue and into a compartment under the dinette seat.  Weight distribution wasn't laid out the best when they designed this model, everything heavy is forward the single axle.

Thanks again... feel free to chime in.
 
whether we are correct in our thinking, it's always been the rule in Western NY that you store batteries above freezing when not being used for a period of time.


We live in Calgary, which is certainly no warmer than where you live. Batteries are just fine in cold weather. Do you take your car battery in at night?


If you want Lithium batteries or not, keeping fla batteries out in the cold would be well down on the list in the decision tree.


If there is no power in the barn, is the house close enough to run extension cords? You only need a trickle charger. You could even use one of those solar trickle chargers that plug into a cigarette lighter for a car.
 
I think two separate concerns are getting mixed here: removing batteries vs state-of-charge.

The only reason I know of to remove batteries from the RV is to protect them from freezing IF you are unable to keep them charged in situ.  Moving them to an above-freezing location will prevent damage from frozen electrolyte.  However, if you can keep the batteries charged, the electrolyte won't freeze and it won't make any difference whether they are in the RV or elsewhere.  A fully charged lead-acid battery is freeze-proof down to about -90F, but at 50% charge it's good only to about 0 F.  And only 30-32 degrees if totally dead.

It is correct that lower temperatures reduce self-discharge loss, so an ideal storage temperature is 35-40 degrees. In another words, cold but enough above freezing to avoid any risk if for any reason the state-of-charge gets low.

Trojan has an excellent article on battery storage, with charts and measurements on temperatures and SOC.
http://www.trojanbattery.com/pdf/WP_DeepCycleBatteryStorage_0512.pdf
 
It has been documented that fully charged AND equalized (At least once since you last added water) a fully charged Lead acid battery is safe at 40 below. or possibly colder. I myself have taken batteries that cold on at least 3 times.  Fully charged in 2 cases. Not full in the third but close to it.

So as long as they are full cold won't likely bother them.
 
Frank B... Calgary seems about the same as Buffalo temperature wise for the winter, I would have thought it would be colder there.  As far as the car battery goes it is being charged/discharged daily in most cases.  I worked at a service station in High School during the Blizzard of 77.  I remember towing cars in off the road and the batteries being slush or frozen, I'm sure there SOC was low.  Power of any type is not an option when the camper is in storage.

Gary... Great info!  My concern has always been not knowing the SOC for 5 months or so in storage.  Pulling them out and dragging them in the house has been my insurance policy.  Very good article from Trojan, not sure how I missed it while perusing their site.

John... "So as long as they are full cold won't likely bother them."  That is my problem, I have no way of knowing when in storage.

We have been on the Outer Banks for a week now, staying at the NPS campground in Frisco.  We get good sun for the 80 watt solar panel (wish I would have bought the 120 watt) which does an okay job charging.  We have a 300 watt inverter that runs my CPAP at night, also a small fan runs most of the day and evening cooling the camper.  Both CPAP and Fan (on low) draw about half an amp each on the AC side.  SOC according to the monitor that's on the GoPower solar panel is around 50% when we turn-in for the night.  When I check it in the morning (after hour or so of sun) it's says 70% or so.  Seems like something is off with the SOC amount in the morning.  I have power for my CPAP... the better half has power for the Fan so she is happy.  As the saying goes... If Ma Ma is happy.. Everyone is Happy!!  :)
 

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