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Author Topic: DP owners, educate me..  (Read 1763 times)

motoxbob

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DP owners, educate me..
« on: May 14, 2018, 07:51:39 PM »
 Today at a nice RV park I ate my lunch outside listening to a huge pusher across from me idling as they prepared to leave. I timed it. They ran the engine for 40 minutes while they wandered around. I wanted to ask the fellow if that was something that was really necessary but thankfully my wife kept me from walking over to his site! (God love her)
     So I'll ask the forum. Was that a requirement of owning such a vehicle or just bad manners?
2007 Daymon Daybreak 3270

Tom

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Re: DP owners, educate me..
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2018, 08:03:46 PM »
Good question. 40 minutes is excessive. However, DP's need to idle/run for some time in order to:

1. Bring the suspension up to 'ride height'.

2.  Be able to release the brakes. Unless the air pressure is high enough, the brakes won't release and you won't go anywhere.

Some DP owners are either inconsiderate or forgetful, and allow their engine to idle beyond the time required for the above.
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Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: DP owners, educate me..
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2018, 08:32:08 PM »
Anything longer than 5-6 minutes is just plain foolishness and a waste of fuel.
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Tom

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Re: DP owners, educate me..
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2018, 08:37:07 PM »
It depends on whether the owner 'dumped' all air the night before. If we're just staying overnight, I don't normally dump the air, and usually don't need to idle in the morning.
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Kevin Means

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Re: DP owners, educate me..
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2018, 10:03:41 PM »
I have to idle the engine to bring the slides in, but before I can bring them in, the engine has to idle for about one minute to stabilze the chassis voltage, because the engine air heater pulls a lot of power. If I try to retract our coach's two large slides before the engine air heater shuts off, I'll get a low voltage error code, and the slides won't operate properly.

So I have to idle for a little more than a minute before I can bring the slides in, then it takes a little less than a minute to retract all three slides, and about another two minutes to retract the jacks and get the coach up to ride height. All that can easily be done in five minutes.

Excessive idling of diesel engines has been a pet peeve of mine for a long time. I'm convinced that those who do it are just advertising that they are a member of "the diesel club" and they want everyone within earshot to know it. Even our owners manual says to avoid prolonged idling (although it doesn't say exactly what that is.) You're right. It's just rude.

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motoxbob

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Re: DP owners, educate me..
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2018, 10:38:00 PM »
Thanks for the info from the DP owners. I had a feeling that I had a legit concern. "Warming up" is one thing, but idilng like at a truck stoop is another.
2007 Daymon Daybreak 3270

Corky

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Re: DP owners, educate me..
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2018, 07:16:38 AM »
Anything over 10 minutes is just creating heat and pollution.

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billwild

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Re: DP owners, educate me..
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2018, 07:45:02 AM »
By the time I air up to ride height, lifted the jacks and checked the connections to the toad, it is 5-6 minutes. I try not to annoy the neighbors by idling too long.


Bill

ZinLuvR

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Re: DP owners, educate me..
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2018, 10:35:20 AM »
40 minutes makes no sense.
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Tom

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Re: DP owners, educate me..
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2018, 11:21:03 AM »
I think we all agree  ;)
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Ghostman

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Re: DP owners, educate me..
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2018, 11:47:29 AM »
I know it can be annoying to others. I try to hurry as quick as possible. 5mins tops. Pulling in late at night also. Pull in and shut it off. Have respect for others.
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A Traveler

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Re: DP owners, educate me..
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2018, 07:13:22 PM »
The folks who idled for 40 minutes give us all a bad reputation. There is absolutely no need to idle for 40 minutes. The manufacturers (both Cummins and Cat) tell you not to do it. 5 to 6 minutes to get the air up and you’re ready to go.

It’s rude, inconsiderate and ultimately bad for the engine to idle that long.

ZinLuvR

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Re: DP owners, educate me..
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2018, 10:07:53 PM »
Funny, no sooner does this topic pop up and the guy across from me starts up.  With this topic fresh in my mind I look at my watch and look over to see what's going on.  He's still hooked up to the shore, kids are running around and I can't tell if he's getting ready to leave or just running to put air in the tanks.  So I go about doing some chores, head to the dumpster and I notice the kids and wife are over in that part of the park.  Anyway, turns out they're leaving but he idled there a good 20 to 25 minutes before getting underway.  An old Beaver and it was noisy.
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john owens

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Re: DP owners, educate me..
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2018, 10:20:28 PM »
I would love to have a dp someday..Might happen might not. Sometimes I wonder if some owners think they are BIG Rig drivers and let there engines run on because they sound cool or like Kev said trying to show off a bit...Oh well its only an annoyance for a little while.. :))
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Sun2Retire

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Re: DP owners, educate me..
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2018, 10:24:41 PM »
This morning I had to leave early (6:30) to get some work done on the rig. Yesterday I retracted the jacks and inflated the bags. Disconnected everything except electricity. This morning I unplugged, started, was moving about 1 minute after start. Idled out, and was on a public road about 3 minutes from start. I had ample suburban travel before high speed travel, so no worries about warm-up. I realize this was an ideal scenario, but you really can get a diesel out early in the morning without bothering anyone if you try
Scott
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SargeW

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Re: DP owners, educate me..
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2018, 11:09:00 PM »
Interestingly I have seen excessive idle periods from more  pickup drivers than motorhomes. And all the trucks have to do is back under the trailer pin. I don't think its exclusive to just big rigs, the truck crowd likes the smell of diesel in the morning too.
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kdbgoat

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Re: DP owners, educate me..
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2018, 06:11:04 AM »
I can't say all that idle are doing it to show off or be inconsiderate. Face it, a lot of them are older folks, and have always heard/been taught that diesels need to idle and warm up, and are set in their ways due to what they learned in the old school. I think it's mostly a matter of being uneducated about the operation of a diesel.
many states have adopted no/minimal idling laws. below is an old link I had bookmarked, and probably has been updated.

https://cdllife.com/2014/idling-laws-state/

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SargeW

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Re: DP owners, educate me..
« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2018, 09:51:35 AM »
Yeah, that's quite possible too. Sometimes folks hang onto things that "somebody once told me" as gospel.
Marty--
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JDOnTheGo

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Re: DP owners, educate me..
« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2018, 02:24:36 PM »
I certainly agree about the excessive bit being excessive.

I would like to add two more data points, just to protect myself.  ;)

My last coach (2005 Newmar Dutch Star) required only about 5 minutes to be ready to go - as others have shared.  My current coach can take a bit longer for the air to come up depending on high or low idle and how long I've been sitting there. If overnight, or three, pretty quick. If a couple weeks, I'm afraid it may be in the ten minute range - maybe a bit more. I've never timed it but will try to remember to do so next time.

This long idle time really bothers me. To the point that I have a potential solution planned. I've purchased a 24volt air compressor and will be hook this into the air system. I would run it prior starting the engine.  Sadly, it isn't exactly "silent" but certainly not as loud as the engine. My initial attempt failed so I have to study the air system a bit more to figure out how to best plumb things.  My only point to all this is that I think there are solutions even for coaches that require a long time to air up.
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Kathy & Bill

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Re: DP owners, educate me..
« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2018, 09:13:57 PM »
Federal Motor Carrier Law... No more than 5 minutes.
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Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: DP owners, educate me..
« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2018, 10:22:07 AM »
Which does not apply to private coaches. Or on private property.  It's indicative of the best practice, though.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2018, 10:24:18 AM by Gary RV_Wizard »
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KandT

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Re: DP owners, educate me..
« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2018, 01:40:46 PM »
even with the the air coming up - 5 minutes here.  the only thing I will say in their defense is that sometimes a jack will be a bugger to get up - can take several more minutes. I wish the jacks were power two way rather than spring back.

I agree it is ridiculous.  The thing I try to keep in mind is that even though it feels like they are doing it just to annoy the h-e double hockey sticks out of me, they probably just got busier than they thought.  I know ever time we pull for a rest stop it is always going to be "5 minutes".  Forty minutes later we are back on the road!
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docj

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Re: DP owners, educate me..
« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2018, 01:54:37 PM »
Face it, a lot of them are older folks, and have always heard/been taught that diesels need to idle and warm up, and are set in their ways

Let me start by saying that I am definitely one of the "older folks!"  Turned 71 last week.  But I hope that I'm never too old to learn!  Getting old isn't a terminal condition; IMO it's acting old that is deadly!
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Willandgiselarv

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Re: DP owners, educate me..
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2018, 11:08:10 PM »
I think some people exaggerate about how long people idle their diesels, it's funny there seems to always be a post about diesels. What I have observed is it doesn't make a difference I have seen people with their gas coaches or trucks do the same idiling, no difference with diesels.
People with gas units just happen to call out diesels more..I wonder why that is :)
Same with diesels boats, I have always had twin diesels in my boat..its also always the gas boats that complains about diesels??? MAYBE the complainers should just buy a diesel unit??
« Last Edit: May 19, 2018, 11:10:30 PM by Willandgiselarv »
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Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: DP owners, educate me..
« Reply #24 on: May 20, 2018, 09:02:39 AM »
Hah-hah, Will.   :)   I think you are probably right about that. The diesel rumble is more obvious, but I've observed gas rig owners idling for long periods as well. Further, truck & trailer rigs are just as guilty as motorhome owners.  Some people must be overly anxious to get their rig fired up, sometimes well before they are ready to go.  Maybe an impatient guy who thinks he can hurry his wife along with the sound of the engine idling?  Huh! That ain't gonna happen!   ???
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RedandSilver

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Re: DP owners, educate me..
« Reply #25 on: May 20, 2018, 09:39:25 AM »
Like everyone else I agree that 40 minutes is excessive and unneeded.

But tell that to the truckers in rest stops.
I have spent nights in a rest stop and most of the truckers run their engines all night.
I assume that most don't have a generator on board so the engine is their source of heat or AC and power to cook etc.

I found it so loud once that I turned on my generator (and AC) to drown out the sound of their engines on either side of me,
even though I could have slept without it if it hadn't been so noisy outside my unit.

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Tom

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Re: DP owners, educate me..
« Reply #26 on: May 20, 2018, 10:06:03 AM »
Quote from: RedandSilver
I have spent nights in a rest stop and most of the truckers run their engines all night.
I assume that most don't have a generator on board so the engine is their source of heat or AC and power to cook etc.
Some of that noise might have been from their on-board generator keeping frozen or chilled produce cold. When DP owners fill up at a truck stop, we're often asked how much fuel is for the tractor and how much for the 'reefer' (more correctly the generator). I assume they're priced differently, due to a difference in tax rates. Some states handle/tax it differently.
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RedandSilver

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Re: DP owners, educate me..
« Reply #27 on: May 20, 2018, 10:14:58 AM »
Some of that noise might have been from their on-board generator keeping frozen or chilled produce cold. When DP owners fill up at a truck stop, we're often asked how much fuel is for the tractor and how much for the 'reefer' (more correctly the generator). I assume they're priced differently, due to a difference in tax rates. Some states handle/tax it differently.

That's a new one for me.  I have never been asked that question.
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docj

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Re: DP owners, educate me..
« Reply #28 on: May 20, 2018, 10:29:35 AM »
That's a new one for me.  I have never been asked that question.

It's pretty common to see this on the pump "dialogue" at many truck stops.  I presume that reefer fuel is exempt from most, if not all, federal and state highway taxes.  It's probably taxed more like "off road diesel."
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Lou Schneider

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Re: DP owners, educate me..
« Reply #29 on: May 20, 2018, 11:02:35 AM »
Refrigerator fuel (I almost said "reefer" but that's too close to setting up Seilerbird for a joke  ;) ) is off-road fuel, since it's part of the cargo and is not driving the vehicle down the road.

Even areas that limit truck idling allow unlimited running of refrigeration units.  Otherwise the cargo will spoil.  And despite their noise, the trailer's cargo has to be pre-cooled before loading into the trailer.   The cooling unit is sized to keep the cargo cold, not lower the temperature of a warm load.

Willandgiselarv

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Re: DP owners, educate me..
« Reply #30 on: May 20, 2018, 11:45:15 AM »
It's the same in the boating world, there is "red diesel"
That is permitted for the boats but you will get fined if found on vehicle using roads. The red diesel is cheaper no road tax attached
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Mile High

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Re: DP owners, educate me..
« Reply #31 on: May 20, 2018, 12:59:33 PM »
Because of how much I cussed and hated DPs (even pickup) owners for excessive idle time, I really make every effort to limit my time to retracting slides and jacks.  By that time my air is ready.  What I do struggle with is time required coming in, which is just as annoying.  It takes me a little longer to park just right, then grab some pads and run the jacks and slides, all that time that hot noisy engine is interrupting someones picnic and I fee bad sometimes.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2018, 01:02:55 PM by Mile High »
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Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: DP owners, educate me..
« Reply #32 on: May 20, 2018, 02:09:35 PM »
Most diesel gensets are relatively quiet compared to the big engine, so I doubt the noise complaints stem from that.   It's a possibility, though.  A related factor is that there is no a/c inside the coach once shore power is disconnected, so running the engine also enables the dash a/c to help.  Of course they could start the genset for house a/c and shut off the engine & dash a/c,  but many people will say to themselves " it's only a couple minutes more..."  If you are conscious of your neighbors, you would shut the engine down and use shore or genset if needed to heat or cool, but if you are one of the self-centered types, maybe not.
Gary
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Tropical36

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Re: DP owners, educate me..
« Reply #33 on: May 25, 2018, 02:35:13 PM »
Today at a nice RV park I ate my lunch outside listening to a huge pusher across from me idling as they prepared to leave. I timed it. They ran the engine for 40 minutes while they wandered around. I wanted to ask the fellow if that was something that was really necessary but thankfully my wife kept me from walking over to his site! (God love her)
     So I'll ask the forum. Was that a requirement of owning such a vehicle or just bad manners?
I agree with Gary on the 5 - 6min and sometimes a little more with what it takes for us to maybe lift and dump slide room water, when it's rained, re-level and retract the slides, retract the jacks and for my high oil pressure to settle down a bit. The thing won't really warm up much until you're moving anyway and always do that slowly, on the way out. I remember someone doing that in Grand Teton NP, once and was wondering what his problem, was. We then owned a gas rig, so wasn't sure. Could have had an air leak that was hard catching up to, I guess.
On the opposite end of the spectrum, I once watched this guy in a new coach move around in this big parking areas quite a few times and with quickly shutting it down, each time. Probably without given it time enough, for his turbo to quit spinning in fact.
Dan

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