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Author Topic: Unable to figure out how to turn on or run power from Battery  (Read 1672 times)

kdbgoat

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Re: Unable to figure out how to turn on or run power from Battery
« Reply #30 on: May 21, 2018, 06:05:15 PM »
I wondered how the OP determined the battery is fully charged. He did say the tongue jack works, so I assume the battery got charged by the tow vehicle. I am also assuming the tow vehicle electrical cord wasn't plugged in when the jack worked. If the trailer was plugged into the tow vehicle, the jack probably worked from the tow vehicle's battery. I asked the OP how it was determined that the battery was fully charged, but didn't get a definitive answer, he just repeated that it was fully charged.
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kdbgoat

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Re: Unable to figure out how to turn on or run power from Battery
« Reply #31 on: May 21, 2018, 06:10:13 PM »
I agree that a test light is a handy tool to have, but for someone with no electrical experience would be better off spending the $10 towards a multimeter.
I know you believe you understand what you think I said,
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Rene T

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Re: Unable to figure out how to turn on or run power from Battery
« Reply #32 on: May 21, 2018, 06:10:59 PM »
I wondered how the OP determined the battery is fully charged. He did say the tongue jack works, so I assume the battery got charged by the tow vehicle. I am also assuming the tow vehicle electrical cord wasn't plugged in when the jack worked. If the trailer was plugged into the tow vehicle, the jack probably worked from the tow vehicle's battery. I asked the OP how it was determined that the battery was fully charged, but didn't get a definitive answer, he just repeated that it was fully charged.

This is a tough one but doesn't have to be.  :o ;)  We'll eventually find the problem.
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kdbgoat

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Re: Unable to figure out how to turn on or run power from Battery
« Reply #33 on: May 21, 2018, 06:33:34 PM »
But it sure is lengthy and frustrating troubleshooting online. I could have had it fixed by now if it was in my yard.
I know you believe you understand what you think I said,
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Frank B

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Re: Unable to figure out how to turn on or run power from Battery
« Reply #34 on: May 21, 2018, 07:51:51 PM »

Quote
I plugged in the trailer using its plug cord and all power works fine. -  The battery is fully charged. I tried using it to operate the electric jack on the tounge.


Does the tongue jack work when the trailer is disconnected from the AC?


I still suspect a disconnected or discharged battery.



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neptune1

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Re: Unable to figure out how to turn on or run power from Battery
« Reply #35 on: May 21, 2018, 08:12:41 PM »
Hi all,

I truly appreciate all the help, but at the same time, too many different directions from everyone. I work full time so can only look at this
after work.

To answer a couple questions:
1: Why do I think the battery works and is charged. The guy we bought it from had it on the Charger when we picked it up (I saw it and it was fully charged on his charger). Also, it is operating the jack in the front just fine, I have used it about 4-5 times to unhitch the trailer. Also, when I had it plugged into Shore, there is a meter/test on the wall, one for the battery, I checked it as well and it shows fully charged.

I just got back from crawling under the trailer. I found the line that goes back towards the fuse panel. I found absolutely no other switches or fuses. NONE!

I double checked around the front hitch area. No switches, no fuses at all.

My wife and I for the 3rd time, checked everywhere inside, no switches.

Here are a couple pictures I took. Could it be that there is a fuse inside the Power Connector box on the front?? Here are a couple pictures.

kdbgoat

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Re: Unable to figure out how to turn on or run power from Battery
« Reply #36 on: May 21, 2018, 08:42:28 PM »
Hi all,

I truly appreciate all the help, but at the same time, too many different directions from everyone. I work full time so can only look at this
after work.

To answer a couple questions:
1: Why do I think the battery works and is charged.  Also, when I had it plugged into Shore, there is a meter/test on the wall, one for the battery, I checked it as well and it shows fully charged.

When plugged into shore power, you were reading the output of the converter, not battery voltage. Unplug from shore power and then get a reading.
I know you believe you understand what you think I said,
But I am not sure you realize what you heard is not what I meant


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kdbgoat

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Re: Unable to figure out how to turn on or run power from Battery
« Reply #37 on: May 21, 2018, 08:45:23 PM »
Have you taken the cover off the 12 volt box in the second picture? The breaker or a bad connection could very well be in that box.
I know you believe you understand what you think I said,
But I am not sure you realize what you heard is not what I meant


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neptune1

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Re: Unable to figure out how to turn on or run power from Battery
« Reply #38 on: May 21, 2018, 08:51:30 PM »
battery is fully charged. It was on a battery charger, tested etc. Seems everyone is hung up on whether its charged LOL. Should i buy a new battery to convince everyone? :) lol

I have not take that cover off the 12 volt box yet. Looks like its screwed on, will have to do that tomorrow when I get home from work. Once I take it off, what will I most likely see?


kdbgoat

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Re: Unable to figure out how to turn on or run power from Battery
« Reply #39 on: May 21, 2018, 09:08:21 PM »
It's not that we're hung up on whether it's fully charged or not, it's how you determined that fact. As I said, pressing the battery button on the panel while plugged in does not read the battery, it will read the output of the converter. That's why I asked in the beginning if that is what you did. A simple yes or no answer to that question would have helped a lot. If you have hitched and unhitched 4 or 5 times, and the trailer wasn't connected to your tow vehicle, rest assured that battery is no longer fully charged. As I said while ago, your problem is most likely under that cover. That's where your battery hooks up to everything else. And there's a good chance that there is a circuit breaker in that box. You also stand a good chance of finding some corroded wiring there too. I know what you mean about working full time, I put in 10 1/2 hour days, and get called up or called in a lot on top of that.
I know you believe you understand what you think I said,
But I am not sure you realize what you heard is not what I meant


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neptune1

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Re: Unable to figure out how to turn on or run power from Battery
« Reply #40 on: May 21, 2018, 09:17:39 PM »
I work at Boeing so not totally in the dark about how electrical things work:). I understand its not 100% charged now that I've been using it, but its not dead in the water either. Let's move on past the battery please :). I think the battery is fine.

I'll take the cover off tomorrow and take a look. Otherwise I'll just take the darn thing in to the local RV place here and get this resolved. I like fixing things but this is getting ridiculous...


Sun2Retire

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Re: Unable to figure out how to turn on or run power from Battery
« Reply #41 on: May 21, 2018, 09:19:42 PM »
Once I take it off, what will I most likely see?
Hopefully a huge, red on/off switch  ;)
Scott
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neptune1

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Re: Unable to figure out how to turn on or run power from Battery
« Reply #42 on: May 21, 2018, 09:35:38 PM »
LOL yes, a large red switch that says on/off for battery power. Man they make this stuff way too complicated! and I thought building Airplanes was hard... LOL, makes me think they have Boeing workers putting these things together lol..

Rene T

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Re: Unable to figure out how to turn on or run power from Battery
« Reply #43 on: May 22, 2018, 07:57:08 AM »
LOL yes, a large red switch that says on/off for battery power. Man they make this stuff way too complicated! and I thought building Airplanes was hard... LOL, makes me think they have Boeing workers putting these things together lol..

I don't think you'll find a big red switch because you'd have to remove the cover to that box everytime you wanted to turn the power on or off. But you may find the fuse for the battery cable in there.

It's not the one's putting them together it's the one's who designs them. I found the same issue working on submarines.
Rene, Lucille & co-pilot Buddy
AKA  Pep N Mem
2011 Chevy Duramax 2500 HD 4X4
2011 Montana High Country 343RL
From the Granite State of NH
& Florida Snowbird in Lakeland FL

grashley

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Re: Unable to figure out how to turn on or run power from Battery
« Reply #44 on: May 22, 2018, 06:47:35 PM »
Does everything work now?  See, it WAS obvious once you found the right place to look!  When I said to trace the wire, that is the first place I would have looked.  Buy, hey YOU FOUND IT!!!!
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Rene T

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Re: Unable to figure out how to turn on or run power from Battery
« Reply #45 on: May 22, 2018, 07:59:32 PM »
Does everything work now?  See, it WAS obvious once you found the right place to look!  When I said to trace the wire, that is the first place I would have looked.  Buy, hey YOU FOUND IT!!!!

Gordon, they were hoping to find a big red switch. They haven't looked into the box yet.
Rene, Lucille & co-pilot Buddy
AKA  Pep N Mem
2011 Chevy Duramax 2500 HD 4X4
2011 Montana High Country 343RL
From the Granite State of NH
& Florida Snowbird in Lakeland FL

neptune1

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Re: Unable to figure out how to turn on or run power from Battery
« Reply #46 on: May 22, 2018, 09:19:44 PM »
Hi, nope, still not working.

I Opened the connection box in the front and found a 30amp fuse. It was burned out, so I replaced it (see picture). I tried the power afterwards and still no power.

I see that behind where the fuse is there is the inline circuit breaker? could that be the issue? I see no reset button on it at all. Wires around the area look ok, nothing loose and
looks in pretty good shape. Here are pics and also I took a pic of the fuse box just for fun.

Also, I saw a previous post, yes the electric Jack works fine from the battery power. I just tried it again Tonite.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2018, 09:29:07 PM by neptune1 »

Sun2Retire

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Re: Unable to figure out how to turn on or run power from Battery
« Reply #47 on: May 22, 2018, 09:45:21 PM »
Since you had a blown 30A fuse (thatís a big one) Iíd be suspicious of that circuit breaker (if indeed thatís what it is). If it were me Iíd check to see if you have voltage on both terminals of the circuit breaker (check each terminal to ground with a meter). Or you could check resistance across it. Or you could just use a big wire and briefly jumper it and see if lights etc come on. The problem with this last brute force method is that if you have a short somewhere (recall that you did have a blown 30A fuse) thereís going to be a big spark and probably another blown fuse.
Scott
Fulltiming in a 2005 Newmar Dutch Star 3810, Spartan, Cat C7 350
Eezrv TPMS, VMSpc, 970W Solar, Tri-Metric Battery monitor
2002 Dodge RAM 1500 Quad Cab toad
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neptune1

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Re: Unable to figure out how to turn on or run power from Battery
« Reply #48 on: May 22, 2018, 10:04:24 PM »
Hi and thanks, I think. ;)

I like what you said, I just don't understand what you just said. Lol

Sorry I have no idea how to do any of that. I'm a great drummer and bass player, but I can't explain to you how to check intonation and how to adjust your bass settings over text like this ;).

What about the inline circuit breaker, do those go out?

Sun2Retire

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Re: Unable to figure out how to turn on or run power from Battery
« Reply #49 on: May 22, 2018, 10:51:58 PM »
I like what you said, I just don't understand what you just said. Lol
The challenge here is that troubleshooting requires certain actions to take place. To know how far voltage has gone down a path until something stops it (blown fuse, popped circuit breaker, broken wire, etc) requires the ability to test it. I can't play drums, but I could tell you in 5 seconds if there's continuity across that circuit breaker and if that's your problem. If you can't test it, and that is the problem, you could chase your tail all day. So, short of finding that big red switch, it's going to be very difficult (if not impossible) to diagnose remotely if there's no one actually doing any testing.
You can try the brute force suggestion. First turn a light on that does not work on battery power but does work plugged in. Take a wire and briefly touch both terminals of the circuit breaker watching the light (or having someone watch). There might be a spark at the terminals when you try this BTW. If the light even flickers, that circuit breaker is your problem (or at least what is keeping power from flowing further). It's possible something shorted and blew the fuse and the circuit breaker. If this is true, when you touch the wire there's going to be a big spark, the fuse will probably blow again, but the light should flicker. This is not an elegant way to test to say the least, and if the spark is big, and the fuse does blow again, you are definitely going to have to get someone to look at it to find the short causing it.
Scott
Fulltiming in a 2005 Newmar Dutch Star 3810, Spartan, Cat C7 350
Eezrv TPMS, VMSpc, 970W Solar, Tri-Metric Battery monitor
2002 Dodge RAM 1500 Quad Cab toad
Stowmaster towbar & Brakemaster toad braking system

neptune1

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Re: Unable to figure out how to turn on or run power from Battery
« Reply #50 on: May 22, 2018, 11:09:41 PM »
How about this. Why not just replace the circuit breaker, they are cheap. I took it off and my wife is going to buy a new one while I'm at work. I'll replace it when I get home. I'm not too keen on the brute force idea and don't like sparks flying around. I'll replace the breaker and let you know if that did it or not.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2018, 11:11:33 PM by neptune1 »

regval

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Re: Unable to figure out how to turn on or run power from Battery
« Reply #51 on: May 23, 2018, 12:34:41 AM »
How about this. Why not just replace the circuit breaker, they are cheap. I took it off and my wife is going to buy a new one while I'm at work. I'll replace it when I get home. I'm not too keen on the brute force idea and don't like sparks flying around. I'll replace the breaker and let you know if that did it or not.

Good idea. Looking at your photo of the power box near battery, the fuse (green) that connects the orange wires is for your electric trailer brakes. While you're replacing the circuit breaker, remove the blue and red wire nuts (after you have disconnected the positive terminal from your battery) and check for corrosion since you're inside the box.
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Sun2Retire

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Re: Unable to figure out how to turn on or run power from Battery
« Reply #52 on: May 23, 2018, 06:43:07 AM »
How about this. Why not just replace the circuit breaker, they are cheap. I took it off and my wife is going to buy a new one while I'm at work. I'll replace it when I get home. I'm not too keen on the brute force idea and don't like sparks flying around. I'll replace the breaker and let you know if that did it or not.


Iíd agree that this is a good option; I offered up the other as a quick a dirt way to try and move the process along with no mechanical work required. My guess is that the circuit breaker rating is less than the fuse rating. If you are unable to determine the rating based on markings on the unit I wouldnít exceed 30 amps. You might start with 20-25.
Scott
Fulltiming in a 2005 Newmar Dutch Star 3810, Spartan, Cat C7 350
Eezrv TPMS, VMSpc, 970W Solar, Tri-Metric Battery monitor
2002 Dodge RAM 1500 Quad Cab toad
Stowmaster towbar & Brakemaster toad braking system

neptune1

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Re: Unable to figure out how to turn on or run power from Battery
« Reply #53 on: May 23, 2018, 09:29:44 AM »
Hi, so the green fuse that was burned out that I replaced was a 30a, I should replace it with a 20 or 25a?

Also if that fuse is for the brakes, why were the brakes working? I definitely could feel them and actually adjusted them a couple times

kdbgoat

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Re: Unable to figure out how to turn on or run power from Battery
« Reply #54 on: May 23, 2018, 10:03:12 AM »
I'm not 100% sure, but I think that 30 amp brake fuse is the breakaway system. The brakes normally get their power from the tow vehicle. If for some reason the trailer comes loose from the tow vehicle, the lanyard that goes from the breakaway switch to the tow vehicle gets pulled, activating the switch. That will cause power to flow from the trailer's battery to all the trailer brakes and lock them up. I would recommend using a 30 amp replacement fuse.
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Sun2Retire

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Re: Unable to figure out how to turn on or run power from Battery
« Reply #55 on: May 23, 2018, 10:53:57 AM »
Hi, so the green fuse that was burned out that I replaced was a 30a, I should replace it with a 20 or 25a?
No sorry I confused things. kdbgoat is correct, replace with the same rating fuse. I was referring to the circuit breaker. There's probably a way to identify the rating on that and just replace with same.
Scott
Fulltiming in a 2005 Newmar Dutch Star 3810, Spartan, Cat C7 350
Eezrv TPMS, VMSpc, 970W Solar, Tri-Metric Battery monitor
2002 Dodge RAM 1500 Quad Cab toad
Stowmaster towbar & Brakemaster toad braking system

kdbgoat

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Re: Unable to figure out how to turn on or run power from Battery
« Reply #56 on: May 23, 2018, 11:07:45 AM »
According to the drawing that Falconhunter linked, the breaker is 40 amp. If I'm looking at the pic correctly, it looks like the breakaway wiring going to the 30 amp fuse is 10 awg., the wiring going to the circuit breaker looks larger to me, and I would assume it's 8 awg., therefore I would think a 40 amp circuit breaker would be the thing to use.
I know you believe you understand what you think I said,
But I am not sure you realize what you heard is not what I meant


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neptune1

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Re: Unable to figure out how to turn on or run power from Battery
« Reply #57 on: May 23, 2018, 02:56:55 PM »
So now I'm confused. There is a 30a fuse that was blown so I replaced that with a new 30a.

Then there's the square circuit breaker that I just had my wife pick up a new one at poulsbo rv. Would I have had to tell them it needs to be s certain voltage/Ampeg?

They just got her a new one. I'll see it when I get home.

kdbgoat

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Re: Unable to figure out how to turn on or run power from Battery
« Reply #58 on: May 23, 2018, 04:00:33 PM »
Yep, they would need to know the amperage to get the correct one, but for the most part, they probably figure it's the main breaker and have a good idea of what the rating is.
I know you believe you understand what you think I said,
But I am not sure you realize what you heard is not what I meant


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Frank B

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Re: Unable to figure out how to turn on or run power from Battery
« Reply #59 on: May 23, 2018, 04:06:54 PM »
If your wife took the original part in, they will know what it is that they are replacing, and will provide you with one with the correct rating. That is, assuming that the parts people are competent! :-)


And, by the way, taking the original part with you when you go is always best. I replaced a hot water tank gas valve last week and failed to take the original one with me. The one the parts people gave me was almost correct. :-)
« Last Edit: May 23, 2018, 04:09:09 PM by Frank B »
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