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Author Topic: 10 lug brake drum hub problem  (Read 625 times)

harley143

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10 lug brake drum hub problem
« on: June 24, 2018, 10:37:59 AM »
given a used motorhome year ago from a friend, he bough it as a family project he never go to use it .  divorce to place . storage lot kept father son idea no time . great deal for me ,I'm a mobile mechanic  for almost anything that moves.  4mo. later the 454  is back to life it runs great the 87 itasca  drives the 3mile  from the lot to my drive way to  clean .  now out in the open I get a look at what I am starting with, in the lot it was parked between to large trucks, never seeing more than the side of the tires  now the  problem   on the tag axel is a 16 in tire and wheel it was rubbing the inside of the finder well. I purchased a 19.5 tire and wheel when I went to install I realized the wheel on the mh  only had 8 lugs the other wheels are 10 lugs  some one changed the hub to fit the wheel. now 6mo later  many hours and miles  tried everything and place I know . the only luck I had was an AZ. junk yard they wanted to sell me a whole axel 875 .00 pulse shipping all I want is a drum! has any one else had this problem  perplexed!!!!!!  the motor home  needs to move soon for a short trip    please help   what haven't I tryed 

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: 10 lug brake drum hub problem
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2018, 11:37:12 AM »
Hard to believe that a common part like a hub & drum isn't available anywhere, but with you being an experienced mechanic, I have to accept that. I'm sure you are aware that axles & wheels are not RV specific and ought to be available in other salvage yards if you can identify the axle brand and size. 

Given that it has a GM 454 engine, I'm guessing a Chevrolet P30 chassis, which usually has an Eaton rear axle.  However, Chevy didn't produce the tag so that is a Winnebago (Itasca brand) add-on.  Many rigs have a Mor/Ryde tag, but not sure what axle they used back then. You may be able to find some clues at the Vintage Winnebago website:
https://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php?topic=9132.0


Do you have a chassis manual for the old P30?  If not, get one here - it is quite comprehensive.
https://www.gmcmi.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/P30-Chassis-Manual.pdf
« Last Edit: June 24, 2018, 11:46:20 AM by Gary RV_Wizard »
Gary
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Gary Brinck
Summers: Black Mountain, NC
Home: Ocala National Forest, FL

AStravelers

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Re: 10 lug brake drum hub problem
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2018, 03:08:52 PM »
Quote
now the  problem   on the tag axel is a 16 in tire and wheel it was rubbing the inside of the finder well. I purchased a 19.5 tire and wheel when I went to install I realized the wheel on the mh  only had 8 lugs the other wheels are 10 lugs  some one changed the hub to fit the wheel.
I'm confused about the details for your problem.
--  Are you saying both wheels on tag axle are 16" wheels and the remainder are 19.5" wheels?  Is there some reason that you "know" that the RV wasn't built this way. 
-- I would think it would be highly unusual from someone to change a hub designed for a 19.5" wheel to one for a 16" wheel.  Kind of the hard way to do things.
--  I'm assuming your RV is a front engine RV, about 32'-35' long.  If so the RV mfg bought a chassis with just dual rear wheels and axle and added a tag axle to support the extra weight of the RV they built to put on the chassis.
--  If this is correct, the RV may have been built with 16" wheels on the tag axle
--  I would think that the 16" wheels would be just standard truck, van or pick up truck wheels not something unique to the RV.  The chassis components for RV's are pretty much standard truck items.

Where in the fender well is the 16" tire rubbing.  Could you have broken suspension parts?  Maybe a missing air bag or something?

More specific details would help for folks on the form providing informed responses.
Al & Sharon
2006 Winnebago Sightseer 29R
2009 Chevy Colorado 4X4

http://downtheroadaroundthebend.blogspot.com/

whokares2

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Re: 10 lug brake drum hub problem
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2018, 03:51:06 PM »
Do you have a Fleet Pride dealer near you?  If do, take the correct hub assembly to them they should be able to help you.
1994 Fleetwood Southwind 30,000 mi.
2017 Jeep Patriot toad
Spencer and Lucky pooches.

harley143

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Re: 10 lug brake drum hub problem
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2018, 05:21:26 PM »
first  the rv all wheels are meant to be 19.5  slandered,  the wheel that was substituted   is a slandered gm 1 ton wheel  it was installed properly as a last resort to sell it to my sheriff bud   he never drove it .  the wheel was installed back wards to on a 8 stud trailer hub  tapered roller bearings not a wet drive axel like the dually in front of it.  the 16 wheel and hub don't clear the inside fender and rubbed and started to  melt and burn  frame and body  that's why it could not have bin driven that way very far      the axel stamping is not GM , its  air stream  its 3000 pound it is an air sty .  with elec. brakes oh the rv is 40 ft bumper to bumper  this is my first mh of my own work on a number of them  mostly starting or electoral during the week I work for the county as a heavy duty equipment mechanic at  night I have a mobile auto bis   I have checked the local rv dealers , it a little older than they want  to deal with a few  people I met were interested  and challenged the  but no avail 
vale I'm still looking for a needle in a hay stack

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: 10 lug brake drum hub problem
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2018, 05:48:55 PM »
Could we get some more info on this coach?  Is it an Itasca Windcruiser?  If so, is it the 37 footer?  The Windcruiser was the only '87 model with a tag (only on the 37), as far as I know. And probably the only one heavy enough to use 19.5" wheels in the largest version.  I'm really struggling with the notion that it has an Airstream axle and electric brakes.  I suppose that could be made to work, but seems like a real Rube Goldberg scheme. 


The 1987 Itasca brochure has precious little detail on the chassis for this thing.  Maybe a call to Winnebago Customer Service would glean some details about how it was originally equipped.
https://winnebagoind.com/resources/brochure/1987/1987Itasca.pdf

The Winnie Parts Catalog shows an air suspension tag axle for the 37RQ Windstream, and a Weatherton Brake Controller. The tag axle is labeled P30 Superide, but that might be a Winnebago name for it.   However, the Operator Manual describes the air spring suspension as being on the drive axle and the tag as an independent, torsion sprung, trailing arm axle with constant, preset weight load.

The spare tire is an 8x19.5 on a 19.5 x 6.75 wheel, so presumable the rest of the chassis matched that. That agrees with what you already described.

http://www.winnebagoind.com/service/wincd/1987/87icp37rq.pdf
1987 Winnebago/Itasca Operator Manual (see page 9-9 for tag axle):https://winnebagoind.com/resources/manuals/pdfs/Operator1987/87Winnebago-Itasca.pdf


There was a similar Winnebago model (the Elandon) with somewhat less standard equipment, but most of the extras were available as options.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2018, 06:10:53 PM by Gary RV_Wizard »
Gary
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Gary Brinck
Summers: Black Mountain, NC
Home: Ocala National Forest, FL

AStravelers

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Re: 10 lug brake drum hub problem
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2018, 11:10:12 AM »
Taking Gary's info, I did a search for "P30 Superide axle" and got a couple of hits whichmay help.  Or at least asking questions on the website may find someone with more info.
https://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php?topic=12076.0
http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php?topic=10847.0

Al & Sharon
2006 Winnebago Sightseer 29R
2009 Chevy Colorado 4X4

http://downtheroadaroundthebend.blogspot.com/

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: 10 lug brake drum hub problem
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2018, 12:09:12 PM »
Yeap, looks like the Superide + tag came from American Carrier Systems.  http://superide1.com/index.html

However, none of this solves the problem of finding a new 10 bolt hub for the tag.   Maybe the fact that the Elandon 37 uses the same tag might help at a salvage yard, but he still needs to find a reasonably priced source.
Gary
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Gary Brinck
Summers: Black Mountain, NC
Home: Ocala National Forest, FL

harley143

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Re: 10 lug brake drum hub problem
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2018, 04:10:23 PM »
you are all a 100% right  that is my m,h.   today I contacted   the expediter  ,I was told by  one of the outlets I visited sat that if  this place didn't have it, it was not to be found in fl.  I did call  after being transferred a few times they got me with someone pretty knowable he gave me the bad news that I had already suspected  the company that manufactures axels was sold and eliminated the 10 stud about 20 years ago and sold any stock out . he said that my only hope  was  some very old stock or salvage yard,    my thought was finding one even in a yard would be rough because the rarity  of the option to start with  . but knowing mans innovation in time of need, the person who owned this m.h. previously realized the problem , some one else out there probably did the same trick  correctly that's what I have to find out .     any thoughts

harley143

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Re: 10 lug brake drum hub problem
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2018, 04:22:03 PM »
ps  you asked   yes electric brakes  on the tag  hydraulic on the dually  and air bag suspension as  far as the air stream that's what's stamped in to the axle tube      i'm not a quitter and I don't give up

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: 10 lug brake drum hub problem
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2018, 06:49:44 PM »
I'm wondering if somebody swapped the entire axle before. Not just the hubs.
19.5", 10-lug wheels are still being made and sold, so there must be something to mount them on. Maybe something that would fit your axle?

Good luck with your search!  8)
« Last Edit: June 25, 2018, 06:53:58 PM by Gary RV_Wizard »
Gary
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Gary Brinck
Summers: Black Mountain, NC
Home: Ocala National Forest, FL

harley143

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Re: 10 lug brake drum hub problem
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2018, 07:20:29 PM »
hi  ,according to the guy I talked to there is no more production  of the tag axle drum,   what I know about it is that it has   tapered bearing setup with an electric brake set up       I drought the axle has bin changed  every thing under the beast  is pretty original rust and all ,  the odometer if I'm  not mistaken is under 50000  miles all the wear and tear  is done by the time and heat sitting

harley143

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Re: 10 lug brake drum hub problem
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2018, 07:25:59 PM »
ps only one hub has a problem the other  when I removed the 8 stud drum  the whole brake sty.  had bin removed

ronster

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Re: 10 lug brake drum hub problem
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2018, 09:18:55 AM »
Have you pulled the correct hub from the other side and gotten a casting number to search?
ronster with nancy,furry kid ricky riding in a 03 Phaeton 38 Cat power...if it aint a CAT its just a dog!!!

harley143

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Re: 10 lug brake drum hub problem
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2018, 09:22:54 PM »
yes it didn't seem to make a difference ,do you have a way of using or a connection for   casting numbers? anyway the weekend was spent in search of salvage yard too no real success , one yard had a brake shop in front . sure  as rain what do I see in the repair yard an R.V.  with my exact drum I need  oh well !!!!!!!! good grief!!!!!  next thing we are told  that the had one   they wanted 1000$  pulse shipping in Ga.     perplexed  for now