Transmission

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Itascajoe

Active member
Joined
Nov 15, 2017
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26
Hello All. On my Meridian I have the Allison transmission 3000. While I was reading the transmission manual that came with the coach I noticed when you push the mode button a red light comes on and its supposed to be an economy position. Can anyone tell me what I can expect from this mode?

Thanks.
 
Expect little or nothing.  It adjusts the shift points slightly to help fuel economy, so in some few road conditions there may be a tiny gain. Few motorhome owners notice any improvement, nor any downside either.

When you are cruising along the highway in the top gear (6th on the 3000), Mode has zero effect. If accelerating heavily, as from a standing stop or climbing mountain grades, it has no effect.  Only when accelerating slightly is there any benefit.
 
I notice on mine, it will spend a lot more time in 5th gear.  Conditions have to be swell for it to proceed into 6th.
 
The quote below, taken from:    https://community.fmca.com/topic/1149-allison-economy-mode/ provides what seems to be a very good and factual description of how the Allison transmission operates in both normal mode and economy mode.

ALLISON MODE BUTTON

There are TWO TOTALLY DIFFERENT "LET THE TRANSMISSION CHOOSE THE CORRECT GEAR" MODES/PROGRAMS in the Allison ECU which is the "electronic brain" controlling shifting and other functions.

In ECONOMY MODE, the transmission will not downshift even at WOT (Wide Open Throttle) until the engine pulls down to peak torque RPM in some application and 200 RPM lower that "regular mode" in others.

In REGULAR MODE, the transmission WILL downshift much earlier (to maintain higher engine RPM).

ONLY at higher throttle positions is there any difference, so on flat ground you will NOT notice any difference (except accelerating from a stop IF you are at or close to wide open throttle).

It can make a BIG difference in rolling hills. If you are in rolling hills and regular mode (particularly with the cruise control on), it is common for the transmission to shift down to 5th on the uphill and back to 6th on the downhill. Repeat this process hundreds of times. In economy mode, you will stay in 6th gear unless the hill is so steep or so long that the engine can not pull it without dropping below peak torque RPM. If you can pull a hill in a higher gear (lower engine RPM) AND the engine does not overheat, THAT IS WHAT CATERPILLAR, CUMMINS, DD, ETC RECOMMENDATION FOR THE MOST ECONOMICAL WAY TO CLIMB A HILL with a modern turbo, after-cooled diesel engine.

If you know you will need a lower gear because of the steepness of the grade and/or are engine temperature is rising higher than thermostatically controlled temperature, if driving in economy mode, use the down arrow to drop a gear (this is what I do) or switch out of economy mode. Be sure to switch back into economy mode when past the steep section, or agree to pump extra fuel in the tank.

IF your engine begins to overheat, your HP/weight ratio is low OR if it irritates you to loose a few mph on a hill in the name of saving fuel, in the hills, by all means drive in regular mode.

It confuses me to hear people advocate driving in economy mode only on flat ground, as there is not 1% difference in shift RPM's between regular and economy mode on flat ground, excepting accelerating from a stop if you use WOT.

Every time you start the coach, the transmission is in regular mode. This is the default setting. IF you push the mode button, it goes to "economy mode" AND the light illuminates.

There is no "absolute" on how much difference in fuel economy driving in economy mode will have. On flat ground where you will be in 6th gear irrespective of what mode you are in, there will be ZERO difference. The MOST difference in mileage will be in rolling hills, where in regular mode, particularly if on cruise control you will start up a hill in 6th gear, go to WOT in 6th gear, downshift of 5th gear still at WOT (WHERE IT IS USING A LOT MORE FUEL). After the hill is crested, the transmission will up-shift to 6th, then likely coast a little in 6th gear (unless you are driving with the exhaust brake on-- if you are it then applies the exhaust brake AND downshifts TOWARD the pre-select gear which is generally either 2nd or 4th).And so on 6-5-6-5-6-5-6-5.......

A modern turbo inter-cooled diesel is much more efficient at low RPM high throttle settings. This is NOT my opinion. It is stated in just those words in most modern diesel's Owner's Manual.

Note: In either mode, you are free (and welcome) to use the up and down arrows to PRO-ACTIVELY choose the correct gear. You can not screw anything up-- even if you down-arrow to 1st gear at 70mph, the transmission understands that you meant "please downshift to the next lower gear as soon as the engine RPM will not exceed the pre-set amount. Then downshift again when safe....."

By the same token, you can shift between regular and economy mode as often as you want with the transmission in any gear when you make the change.

OPINION: I drive in economy mode 99% of the time, including in REAL mountains, but use the up and down arrows to choose the proper gear. I use regular mode ONLY when I am willing to say, "I am willing to throw a lot of fuel away to gain a little performance." When passing on 2 lane roads, THIS IS the case.

Brett Wolfe
 
On ours, I find that in economy mode, it shifts to the highest gear possible as soon as it will not lug the engine and will only downshift to keep the engine from lugging. In other words, in hills, you are going to be slowing down a lot when going up.
 
We have to keep our engine RPM at 2,000 when pulling a long grade with our usual ~38,000 pound gross combined weight. It is my conviction the cooling pack Freightliner specified for this side radiator Cummins ISL is inadequate. At 2,000 RPM the hydraulic fan is spinning as fast as it should and the coolant pump is operating at max flow rate. So I'm frequently managing RPMs on long grades, especially in hot weather.
 
John,
I had a similar Freightliner XCM chassis in my '04 Tradition and rarely had a overheat concern. Wondering if my fan (variable speed hydraulic) was different than the one in your Horizon?    In mine, the standard ISL+Allison programming ran the ISL at about 1650 rpms under full load and the ECM controlled the fan speed as needed to hold the temperature in an acceptable range.  It would typically climb 10-15 degrees or so on a grade.  On long steep climbs it might hit 198-200 at which point the fan went to max speed and the temps would rapidly fall back to 190.  Both Allison and Cummins said that 200 was fine and even 210 was ok for the duration of a climb.  I got used to watching it closely because I drove for a couple summer months with a faulty fan controller before I could get to Freightliner in Gafney to replace.
 
Mile High said:
I notice on mine, it will spend a lot more time in 5th gear.  Conditions have to be swell for it to proceed into 6th.
Well, I completely read mine wrong.  Guess I better play with it some more. 
 
Gary RV_Wizard said:
John,
I had a similar Freightliner XCM chassis in my '04 Tradition and rarely had a overheat concern. Wondering if my fan (variable speed hydraulic) was different than the one in your Horizon?    In mine, the standard ISL+Allison programming ran the ISL at about 1650 rpms under full load and the ECM controlled the fan speed as needed to hold the temperature in an acceptable range.  It would typically climb 10-15 degrees or so on a grade.  On long steep climbs it might hit 198-200 at which point the fan went to max speed and the temps would rapidly fall back to 190.  Both Allison and Cummins said that 200 was fine and even 210 was ok for the duration of a climb.  I got used to watching it closely because I drove for a couple summer months with a faulty fan controller before I could get to Freightliner in Gafney to replace.
According to Freightliner, my hydraulic fan won't operate until the coolant temperature reaches 215*. The coach was about two years old and a Freightliner Oasis dealer checked the fan RPM at various engine speeds and determined it was a little low so the fan motor and pump were replaced (an all day messy job.) We were climbing Monarch Pass (westbound) and the engine temp got to 230* (or 235*?) and the engine derated. Fortunately I was close to a pull-off and let the engine cool down (I was in idle and held the RPM at 2k.)

I've gone around and around with Freightliner and the answer always was manage your RPM and speed. Sometimes I'm climbing grades in Colorado at 30-35 MPH to keep from loading the engine down. We had high crankcase pressure one time and the FTL shop I used pulled the head and had a valve job done. I've talked to different owners with the same model/engine and they apparently don't have the same issues?  ???

FTL also said unless a hard overheating code is set in the ECM, the engine is okay and no cause to tear into the engine or cooling system. This has been a conundrum since the coach was new and we were climbing grades in South Dakota.
 
According to Freightliner, my hydraulic fan won't operate until the coolant temperature reaches 215*.
That seems incredible to me.  :eek:  That info is from the FCCC factory people? Not an FTL dealer shop?  I guess I would be alarmed too, if that's the case.

The variable speed hydraulic fan in my XCM-based American Coach Liberty chassis always runs at some speed (not directly related to engine rpms). Even if the coolant thermostat hasn't opened yet, the fan turns to pull air through the side radiator stack that provides engine cooling, a/c condensor and tranny oil cooling. The ECM adjusts fan speed to maintain both cooling and a/c operation, e.g. the fan speed increases if the a/c is on.  And if the fan controller fails for some reason, it defaults to full on. When mine finally quit, it ended up running the engine too cool and also costing nearly 1 mpg.
 
I've had two or three shops tell me the fan won't operate until 215*, I should call Gaffney and verify that with them. After the head job was completed, FTL (Tolleson, AZ) forgot to plug the fan controller back in and the fan was operating continuously which certainly affected MPG, that was a clue there was a fan problem.

Our chassis is the Winnebago spec'd "Evolution" model. I'm not sure how much input Winnebago designers have when they work with a chassis supplier as far as engine details like radiator size or maybe alternator output. I would think a cooling pack is a standard configuration based on engine size and chassis GCWR (and if the customer wanted side radiator or the less costly rear radiator.) 
 
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