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Author Topic: Berkley RV homeless  (Read 8660 times)

Tom

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Berkley RV homeless
« on: July 02, 2018, 08:24:02 PM »
There's an RV "encampment" of homeless folks in Berkley, CA. They will soon be evicted. Where will they go? See the story: Here
« Last Edit: July 02, 2018, 08:26:19 PM by Tom »
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Gwbeech

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Re: Berkley RV homeless
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2018, 08:26:39 PM »
It's a marina not a homeless shelter.

Tom

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Re: Berkley RV homeless
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2018, 08:35:50 PM »
Didn't say it was a homeless shelter  ;)
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Gwbeech

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Re: Berkley RV homeless
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2018, 08:42:44 PM »
Alright it's a marina not a homeless encampment.

garyb1st

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Re: Berkley RV homeless
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2018, 11:09:40 PM »
Not just Berkley Tom and the issue is growing.  With a motorhome, at least some of these folks have a shelter.  Hopefully the city will find a place to house these people on a temporary basis and work toward a long term solution.  It's a situation that shouldn't exist in the wealthiest country on the planet. 
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Gods Country

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Re: Berkley RV homeless
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2018, 07:24:52 AM »
Squatters rights trump private property rights. ::)
Get a job.

Memtb

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Re: Berkley RV homeless
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2018, 07:35:25 AM »
Not just Berkley Tom and the issue is growing.  With a motorhome, at least some of these folks have a shelter.  Hopefully the city will find a place to house these people on a temporary basis and work toward a long term solution.  It's a situation that shouldn't exist in the wealthiest country on the planet.

    For most....it is a chosen lifestyle!
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Senator

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Re: Berkley RV homeless
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2018, 07:47:16 AM »
I have never seen a homeless problem that a bit of work would not solve.
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Sun2Retire

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Re: Berkley RV homeless
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2018, 08:06:18 AM »
    For most....it is a chosen lifestyle!

Without piling on and seeming cold, *I* can't afford to live in Berkeley either. If you're employed (as some say they are), can't afford housing and are squatting (sorry, that's what it is) on property where if I parked my rig I'd instantly be required to move or be arrested and towed, then you are making a decision. The reality is, you have to pick up and move where your job can support a dwelling of some type, wherever that may be - this is the same decision every single one of us has to make, it's not unique to the RV dwelling homeless. To attempt to turn this into a situation where the government is supposed to make allowances and somehow accommodate the situation is a straw man argument. That said, many of the squatters in the "houseboats" in Marin county did pretty well. For years they were threatened and eventually their 'encampment' was legitimized (I have been out of touch with that situation for many years so my info may be very out of date).

"Choice" is a very broad brush and I don't mean to ignore the plight of those who are truly in need of a safety net, but I don't think that applies to many of those in this case. Again, can't afford an RV park in the Bay Area? Neither can I.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2018, 09:53:52 AM by Sun2Retire »
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gravesdiesel

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Re: Berkley RV homeless
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2018, 08:25:38 AM »
Definitely a chosen lifestyle for most.  It is easier to beg for money than to actually work for it.  Giving more to homeless/poor people only enables them to continue on the same path.  You cannot help those who are unwilling to help themselves.
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Re: Berkley RV homeless
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2018, 08:43:42 AM »
Without piling on and seeming cold, *I* can't afford to live in Berkeley either. If you're employed (as some say they are), can't afford housing and are squatting (sorry, that's what it is) on property where if I parked my rig I'd instantly be required to move or be arrested and towed, then you are making a decision. The reality is, you have to pick up and move where your job can support a dwelling of some type, whatever that may be - this is the same decision every single one of us has to make, it's not unique to the RV dwelling homeless. To attempt to turn this into a situation where the government is supposed to make allowances and somehow accommodate the situation is a straw man argument. That said, many of the squatters in the "houseboats" in Marin county did pretty well. For years they were threatened and eventually their 'encampment' was legitimized (I have been out of touch with that situation for many years so my info may be very out of date).

"Choice" is a very broad brush and I don't mean to ignore the plight of those who are truly in need of a safety net, but I don't think that applies to many of those in this case. Again, can't afford an RV park in the Bay Area? Neither can I.


Well said :))

Memtb

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Re: Berkley RV homeless
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2018, 08:44:43 AM »
    Sun2retire, gravesdiesel, and Senator,  Well said gentlemen!
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Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Berkley RV homeless
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2018, 09:05:19 AM »
I cannot support squatters of any type, but the extreme high cost of housing (or campsites) is a major problem in many areas.  It's a by-product of relatively low wages for many workers, even though the economy in an area may depend heavily on having those workers. Many cities and resort areas suffer this problem. A $8-$15 per hour job often isn't even close to being sufficient to provide even basic housing.

I've lived in two areas where the disparity between the typically wealthy residents and the service workers they depended on were so extreme that the local government ended up subsidizing places for workers to live.  One was a quite successful worker apartment complex and there were surprisingly few complaints about the tax burden. The other was a less formal system of zoning and property tax breaks that helped low income workers have modest homes, but was somewhat more controversial.
Major multi-year construction sites often build or subsidize "man camps" for the many skilled workers they need to employ. Some of them huge RV or trailer parks, and some even offer subsidies to help buy some sort of living quarters.  It's a cost of doing business for the contractors.  Cities and counties may well have to do the same.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2018, 09:11:15 AM by Gary RV_Wizard »
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Re: Berkley RV homeless
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2018, 09:06:51 AM »
  Well,,,,,,,,,at least the subject has SOMETHING to do with RVs.>>>Dan
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Re: Berkley RV homeless
« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2018, 09:16:59 AM »
Seems like folks are making assumptions about these folks without knowing their story.  On any given night in the US there is an estimated 550,000 people experiencing homelessness. The reasons vary from mental illness, bankruptcy, medical issues, etc. Some homeless work. They just do not make enough to afford housing. Some are drug abusers and yes, some homeless choose this lifestyle. I choose not to judge these folks until I know their situation. Simply saying “get a job” is not the answer.
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Tom

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Re: Berkley RV homeless
« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2018, 09:25:37 AM »
We sure weren't homeless at the time, but here's our experience of boondocking near the Berkley marina in the mid 80's.
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SeilerBird

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Re: Berkley RV homeless
« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2018, 10:07:47 AM »
I feel no pity for them. I used to work with the homeless. They are all (100%) homeless due to a drug and or alcohol addiction that keeps them from actually working. As soon as they score some money they are off to buy drugs. If these homeless people actually wanted to work there are plenty of jobs. But standing on a corner twirling a sign, or being fry cook at McDonalds is somehow beneath them. These homeless people have all alienated themselves from all family and friends. If not those people would be helping them. But they don't because they have been burned too many times.
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Re: Berkley RV homeless
« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2018, 10:09:37 AM »
Yeah, I really have a hard time with the double standards

I started a thread recently about this issue, and how I'm guessing it is giving RV'ers a bad name.  I am concerned about it.

I wonder where these squatters are dumping their tanks and their trash (sorry, didn't read the article yet, maybe it addressed it... this is just a general comment on the subject matter)
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Re: Berkley RV homeless
« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2018, 10:15:48 AM »
I feel no pity for them. I used to work with the homeless. They are all (100%) homeless due to a drug and or alcohol addiction that keeps them from actually working. As soon as they score some money they are off to buy drugs. If these homeless people actually wanted to work there are plenty of jobs. But standing on a corner twirling a sign, or being fry cook at McDonalds is somehow beneath them. These homeless people have all alienated themselves from all family and friends. If not those people would be helping them. But they don't because they have been burned too many times.

another twist on homeless in general to add to your comments.... I often think about the non-government solutions that exist to help these folks.  Churches and all sorts of other charities are out there ready to help....I guess a lot of these folks just don't want to go that route because they would be made to get off drugs, etc...

But
I don't think that most of these "homeless RV'ers" are necessarily falling into those sorts of 'homeless' categories. As I understand it, there are those with halfway decent jobs that just can't find or afford housing, and there are those "van-life" people where it definitely is a lifestyle choice.  Many of these have decent jobs that allow them to work while on the road, computer stuff or whatever... and they choose to live in a simple way and explore.  modern gypsy's.
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Tom

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Re: Berkley RV homeless
« Reply #19 on: July 03, 2018, 10:19:39 AM »
I don't know anything about the people referred to in the article, but it's a fact that sky high home prices preclude many people in the Bay area from being able to qualify or pay for a house. Many can't afford to rent a place. We lived and worked in the (silicon) valley for over 20 years, and saw first hand some of the challenges.
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SeilerBird

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Re: Berkley RV homeless
« Reply #20 on: July 03, 2018, 10:21:12 AM »
another twist on homeless in general to add to your comments.... I often think about the non-government solutions that exist to help these folks.  Churches and all sorts of other charities are out there ready to help....I guess a lot of these folks just don't want to go that route because they would be made to get off drugs, etc...
Yes any church will go to great lengths to help anyone in their church that has any type of problem. And every single one of these homeless is carrying a sign that says 'God bless you'. Yeah right, they are really religious people.
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Re: Berkley RV homeless
« Reply #21 on: July 03, 2018, 10:25:58 AM »
Just a tidbit, but by living full time in a motor home, the Veteran's Administration considers you homeless. I am certain so that they don't have to pay housing benefits to veterans who opt for full timing.

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Re: Berkley RV homeless
« Reply #22 on: July 03, 2018, 10:35:58 AM »
Neighboring Oakland, CA has proposed spending $185 million over two years on the city's homeless.  A charity in San Francisco just announced they are donating $14 million towards that city's street dwellers.

I'm not sure if I left California just in time, or a little too soon.   :o
« Last Edit: July 03, 2018, 10:42:21 AM by Lou Schneider »

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Re: Berkley RV homeless
« Reply #23 on: July 03, 2018, 10:46:04 AM »
Homeless and Houseless are two different things, though not all laws and regulations recognize that.  Well, the regs may handle the difference ok, but the clerks who administer them may not.
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Re: Berkley RV homeless
« Reply #24 on: July 03, 2018, 11:06:07 AM »
Wow, lot's of energy on this subject.  It's a growing problem folks.  To do nothing has consequences.  And you all know about the consequences.  Unless you've figured out a way to compost 100% of your waste.  Anyone have any suggestions other than to get a job.  I agree, it's a lifestyle for some, but don't judge everyone based on your one-off experience.  Unless of course you've been there and done that.  Here are some of the reasons they don't get a job. 

Education.   Ever heard of Dyslexia and other learning disabilities.  They exist.  Many struggle with education.  My nieces old boyfriend for example.  He can't read or write.  He's in his mid-30's and can probably fix anything that's broken.  So he's pretty smart, but how does he fill out an application for a job.  Growing up with a handicap like that can take it's toll on a mans spirit.  Don't mention Einstein who supposedly had Dyslexia.  It's a myth. 

Mental health.  I'm sure many of you have family or friends with mental health issues.  Do you give them a pass. 

What about our Vets that get barebones minimum for their service and struggle with PTSD.  I'll be there are one or two Vet's in Berkley.   

Laid off with health issues.  I have close family relations so I speak from first hand knowledge.   
 
Intellectually handicapped.  Another personal relation.  A niece in her 50's, marginally employable.  None of her brothers want the responsibility.  Mother past several years ago.  Father pushing 80 and likely won't live to 100.  At some point, I expect her to join the ranks.   

 
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Tom

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Re: Berkley RV homeless
« Reply #25 on: July 03, 2018, 11:09:09 AM »
Homeless are, by definition, houseless. Countless houseless folks in the Bay area are homeless, even though they may be working.

Some years ago, one of the engineering grads I hired came from outside the Bay area. We paid him reasonably well, gave him a hotel room for a couple of weeks (or was that month), and suggested he start looking for a place to rent. I'd ask him almost daily how his search was going, and he'd always say that he couldn't find anything he could afford, nor could he find a roommate to share the cost. Well past the hotel time, it occurred to me to ask where he was living in the meantime. "In my car, parked at different shopping malls" was the answer.
I was horrified, and had several employees and my wife looking for somewhere for him to live. IIRC one employee put her hand up and said "I have a spare room". During this search, my admin told me about folks in San Jose renting out areas on the floor of their family room. An area just big enough for a sleeping bag cost $300, no use of cooking facilities or bathroom, and they had to get out first thing in the morning. That was 20 years ago, and I can't imagine what it would be today.
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Re: Berkley RV homeless
« Reply #26 on: July 03, 2018, 11:18:48 AM »
When we lived in Salt Lake City area, we saw an awful lot of homeless. Our church worked with them a lot, and a very well know advocate for the homeless was a member. She would give examples of people who were barely making it, then just one unexpected bill drove them to homelessness. Car broke and can’t get to your job anymore? Eviction then homelessness. Get sick or injured, can’t work, get bills you can’t pay? Homeless. It absolutely is not just drug users! Mental health issues are huge, and even something as “simple” as depression can lead to homelessness. There were teenagers from across the state who end up in SLC who were kicked out of homes by their parents when they found out they were gay. Most people in SLC were homeless for less than a year. Yes, there were the drug users, alcoholics, and slackers, but there were also families who just need a hand to get back on their feet. Not everyone has family to turn to when things get hard.
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Re: Berkley RV homeless
« Reply #27 on: July 03, 2018, 11:24:44 AM »
On a recent trip from Texas to Minnesota J and I were amazed at the Now Hiring signs everywhere we went. Cities or small towns made no difference. No idea about the wages as at 77 I'm no longer in the job market. I have no ideas about how to solve the problem.
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Re: Berkley RV homeless
« Reply #28 on: July 03, 2018, 11:31:06 AM »
I don't know anything about the people referred to in the article, but it's a fact that sky high home prices preclude many people in the Bay area from being able to qualify or pay for a house. Many can't afford to rent a place. We lived and worked in the (silicon) valley for over 20 years, and saw first hand some of the challenges.

My daughters boyfriend, a highly paid senior software engineer, bought his home in Redwood City, Ca, the heart of Silicon valley 25 years ago.  Paid about $300,000 for a modest 3 BR 2 Bath home.  And believe me, it's modest.  Today the home is worth $1,900,000.   For those of you who never heard of Redwood City, Ca, it's across the bay, maybe 45 minutes from Berkley.  It's difficult to find a home in the Bay for under $1,000,000.  So for the children of the many thousands of families who moved to the Bay area before the Silicon Valley Boom, because they couldn't afford to live in San Francisco, now they can't afford to live in the area where they grew up in.  And not many will get a job in the Tech industry if they only have a high school diploma. 
 

 
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rls7201

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Re: Berkley RV homeless
« Reply #29 on: July 03, 2018, 11:41:36 AM »
I think we need more places like "Slab City". The homeless and drop outs from society have figured out how to live there for years. They are not in the way of those of us that make our own way. There would be little cost to open up some BLM land or other unused property. Don't impose all of society's rules on them, just let them live.