Right to vote in jeopardy for FL RVers (Specifically St Brendan?s Isle users)

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I could go on a bit of a political rant here but.. I can also see multiple viewpoints.

For one Let's say I decided to move to FL for registration reasons.. But I have no actual plan to visit FL any time soon, or ever for that matter till I have to park then I will consider FL.

Or NV. works the same for NV or TX. (or SD)

The four states that currently allow full timing.

THat means I'm voting for folks who really have little to do with where I live (On the road).  So I'm affecting elections that do not affect me.....

NOw as it turns out I'm registered in MI, vote in MI and spend at least six months a year in MI. (As required by MI) but that's me.

I do, however feel that FEDERAL elections are a right of all US citizens no mater of nomadic status.
What we need is a 51st and 52nd state. Pureto Rico and "Confusion" for want of a better r52's. Confusion is for folks who have no fixed address and move about a lot.. IE; US.
 
John From Detroit said:
What we need is a 51st and 52nd state. Pureto Rico and "Confusion" for want of a better r52's. Confusion is for folks who have no fixed address and move about a lot.. IE; US.

Way ahead of you John, I've lived in the "State of Confusion" for years, and have the T shirt. Not happy with the tax rate or auto registration fees.
 
What does South Dakota get out of having people register to vote there? Do they somehow get picked up by the census?
 
We are full timers, and domicile in FL.  We do spend a significant amount of the year in that state, but not in the county of our mail service (and we are not domiciled in Clay county, so at least for now we aren't in the crosshairs).

But, for the sake of argument, let's assume there is a full timing couple who travel around the US each year, and spend roughly the same amount of time in each of the lower 48 states.  They would average about 7.6 days per state.  They also move around within the state, so they only spend 3 or 4 days in any one location.  Now, where should they claim domicile for purposes of voting?  Should they have any right to vote for a city councilman, or a county commissioner if they are only in that city or county for a few days each year? 

What about voting for state offices, such as Governor?  And should they be able to vote for and be represented by US congressional representatives or senators?  If they should be allowed to vote for the President of the US, to which state would their votes go for choosing a representative to the electoral college?

If US citizens have the right to vote, they have to vote somewhere.  And wherever that somewhere is, full time RVers probably don't reside there for most of the year. 
 
zulu said:
That's only because the Polk County tax accessor wanted to remove ALL the Escapees from the voter rolls. FL is going case by case. If some official decided to do the same in TX or SD, it could be very bad news for a lot of RVers.

From what I'm reading about the Florida/Clay County decision, it appears that the Florida fulltimers using the Escapees remailing service would likely not be affected since they use the club's Sumter Oaks RV Park physical address for their official mail instead of the club's Texas remailing service address.
 
RossWilliams said:
What does South Dakota get out of having people register to vote there? Do they somehow get picked up by the census?

There are lots of federal payments to States that are based on population.  I assume that full-timers in SD count towards Medicaid, SNAP, and other programs that get federal aid.  In addition drivers license and registration fees from people who rarely drive on SD highways also helps the public works folks.
 
docj said:
There are lots of federal payments to States that are based on population.  I assume that full-timers in SD count towards Medicaid, SNAP, and other programs that get federal aid.  In addition drivers license and registration fees from people who rarely drive on SD highways also helps the public works folks.

Isn't the Federal aid for those programs based on the most recent census?
 
Population does play a part in determining federal funds, but many other factors are figured in as well. With the next Census due in 18 months, you bet that states are going to be counting every nose possible.
 
"If US citizens have the right to vote, they have to vote somewhere."

US citizens, as such, don't have the right to vote in federal elections. They have the right to vote only as residents of a state. People who live in Puerto Rico and the US territories are all US citizens, but don't have any role in electing the President or voting members of congress.  The same was true for the District of Columbia until the constitution was amended to give residents a vote in the electoral college. It still is true with regard to congress, their representative doesn't have a vote.

The census is used for population counts and it doesn't use the voter roles. It uses the place people live and sleep the most time. If that can't be determined, they use the location on census day. So the process of getting people to register and establish residency in South Dakota who don't actually live there should have no impact on any allocations based on population.  Locating in a state to avoid taxes is perfectly legitimate if there is no other state that really has a claim for taxes. But registering and voting in a state where you aren't a resident is election fraud.
 
"If US citizens have the right to vote, they have to vote somewhere."

US citizens, as such, don't have the right to vote in federal elections. They have the right to vote only as residents of a state.
Only partly true.  We vote only through a state voting process, but Federal law and court decisions clearly require that the states make it possible for itinerants and military personnel to register to vote in federal elections.  That's part of what the Fl Dept of State Legal Opinion is based on. Federal courts have held that a citizen's right to representation through an elected official cannot be unreasonably denied by the state electoral process.  That's not a carte blanche, however, because the states also have the responsibility to make sure the prospective voter is a real person and not voting in multiple states.

You may recall that we fought a war because "taxation without representation is tyranny".
 
darsben said:
I assume you declared Florida for your "residence" in order to avoid taxes Etc from another state.

What if a person changed his domicile from Alaska to Florida?  Neither of those states has a state income tax.  Would that make the move more legitimate to you?


zulu said:
From RVer online conversations I've read over the years, I know some (many? most?) RVers who select SD, TX, or FL as a domicile have no intent to actually domicile or "live" there.

But what is a person supposed to do if he has no intent to actually domicile or "live" in any one particular place?  A person has to domicile somewhere.  There are some states that are easier to do this in that others, so they become obvious candidates.  It's simply not an option for fulltimers not to domicile anywhere.


NY_Dutch said:
For Florida, it could be that if you don't qualify to register under the "Mobile" legal residence category, you might be able to claim registry under the "Homeless" category

I don't think so.  In the section on homeless, it talks about a person who "intends to remain permanently in the locale."  Not "intends to return" to the locale, or "intends for the locale to be his residence."  The "intends to remain" implies an ongoing physical presence, which is reasonable in the case of a homeless person.  But it's the ongoing or even present physical presence that is the problem for fulltimers.


Gary RV_Wizard said:
It appears from the State Legal Opinion document that at least some fraudulent voter registrations have been found
  What did you see that says or even implies that fraudulent voter registrations had been found?


NY_Dutch said:
From what I'm reading about the Florida/Clay County decision, it appears that the Florida fulltimers using the Escapees remailing service would likely not be affected since they use the club's Sumter Oaks RV Park physical address for their official mail instead of the club's Texas remailing service address.

I'm not so sure.  Clay County is an odd one.  It is my understanding that on SBI customers' driver's licenses, Clay County puts the person's vehicle license plate number or boat registration (or whatever) number.  And for voter registration, people used "1 Clay County" as the residential address--in lieu of using SBI's commercial building's address.  Whatever, it's always seemed strange.

So there is discussion in the Advisory Opinion about how people can't have this commercial building as their residence, which might make using the Sumter Oaks RV Park's address seem "better."  But the Advisory Opinion also talks about "meaningful contacts indicating the requisite intent and physical presence in the county."  Escapees' mail service may have a better address for people to use, but it  doesn't give those people any more intent or physical presence in the county than SBI's customers.  And I don't think it would help that the only mail they get at that Florida address is for voter registration and vehicle registration, and it's just forwarded to their Texas mailing address.

I think for some reason Clay County has a bee in their bonnet about this.  After all, they've been making people have their vehicle license plate listed as their address on their driver's license for some time.  It's been escalated to the State level now.  Perhaps other counties won't see this as an opportunity to prevent mail forwarding customers from registering to vote, but since the State is involved now, the decision may be taken out of the counties' hands.
 
Trivet said:
I'm not so sure.  Clay County is an odd one.  It is my understanding that on SBI customers' driver's licenses, Clay County puts the person's vehicle license plate number or boat registration (or whatever) number.  And for voter registration, people used "1 Clay County" as the residential address--in lieu of using SBI's commercial building's address.  Whatever, it's always seemed strange.
My Clay County/SBI driver?s license doesn?t have anything mentioning Clay County. Just my name, address, license number, DOB, issued and expiration dates and a V for veteran. Oh, and that I?m a safe driver.  :)
 
"Federal law and court decisions clearly require that the states make it possible for itinerants"

There is nothing in federal or case law that requires states to allow non-residents to vote.  Even the US military have to establish residence in the state they are voting in.  Most states have minimum residency requirements that include more than a post office box and a declaration of residency. If a  bunch of citizens in Puerto Rico decided to declare themselves residents of South Dakota for voting purposes, South Dakota would rightfully object.  I suspect folks get away with this because someone thinks it serves their political interest.

As for "taxation without representation", it made a nice slogan but we do that to individuals all the time.
 
What did you see that says or even implies that fraudulent voter registrations had been found?
It cites registrations that have 1 Clay County as the address of record and notes that this is clearly improper under Florida law because it is not a residential dwelling and in fact is a virtual address rather than physical place.
 
There is nothing in federal or case law that requires states to allow non-residents to vote.
I didn't say it does. What I said is that states cannot deny voter registrations simply because the "resident" lacks a permanent fixed address in the state.  For example, the courts have held that a person in the military is considered a "resident" at his permanent duty station, even if he is physically out of the country for years.  The military person still has to comply with voter registration procedure there, but the lack of a physical address can't be held against him or her.
 
My only point is that being an American citizen does not, by itself, give you the right to vote. You need to meet the residency requirements of one of the 50 states. There are millions of American citizens who can't legally vote in federal elections because they lack residency in any state.
 
RossWilliams said:
My only point is that being an American citizen does not, by itself, give you the right to vote. You need to meet the residency requirements of one of the 50 states. There are millions of American citizens who can't legally vote in federal elections because they lack residency in any state.

Federal law makes voting provisions for even the homeless that can only claim a public park bench or a street corner as their "home" wherever they happen to be at the time they register. Should full time RV'ers not have as much right to vote?
 
Gary RV_Wizard said:
It appears from the State Legal Opinion document that at least some fraudulent voter registrations have been found
What did you see that says or even implies that fraudulent voter registrations had been found?
It cites registrations that have 1 Clay County as the address of record and notes that this is clearly improper under Florida law because it is not a residential dwelling and in fact is a virtual address rather than physical place.

But surely it's not fraud if the Supervisor of Elections is the one who told you to do it:

Q.  How do I register if I do not have a permanent address?

A.  Fill in your temporary address and notify the Supervisor of Elections office when your address becomes permanent. If you no longer maintain or do not plan to have a permanent address in Clay County , but intend to remain a resident of this county, you may request assignment to the precinct of the main office of the Supervisor of Elections. This physical address to be used in this case is 1 Clay County, Green Cove Springs, FL 32043; a mailing address must be provided. You must also supply a completed Declaration of Domicile from the Clerk of Courts office.


https://www.clayelections.com/Voters/FAQs-Voter-Registration


zulu said:
That's only because the Polk County tax accessor wanted to remove ALL the Escapees from the voter rolls. FL is going case by case.

Actually, I wonder if I might prefer that they remove all mail service customers from the voter rolls instead of using case-by-case scrutiny when people have to register a party affiliation, as is the case in Florida. 
 
"Should full time RV'ers not have as much right to vote?"

They do have exactly the same right to vote as anyone else. That means they have to meet the state residency requirement just as a homeless person does. But if you don't live in the state, have never lived in the state and don't intend to live in the state that is quite different.  You are claiming RVers should have the "right" to vote whether they meet the residency requirements or not.  I am curious why you believe RVers should have that "right" when millions of other American citizens don't. 

I suspect almost every permanent RVer could maintain their residency and voting status in the state they are living when they go on the road. The problem is that it is hard to maintain your residency for voting purposes separate from your residency for tax purposes. 

 

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