Do you attend NRA events

HA!

I just figured it out.  Since the NRA is not a Government entity,  everyone should just use an alias when they join. 

I get dibs on..  'Mathew Quigley'    )

FenderP said:

I do not believe this is true. I believe any paperwork you fill out to purchase a firearm must be destroyed by law. None of my guns are registered anywhere.

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Let me comment on this.  I sold guns at a Gander Mountain for a number of years, so I understand how this works.

When you buy a gun from a dealer (FFL) you fill out a Form 4473.  We then take this form back to the office and call it in to the gubbermint to run the NICS check.  As part of the NICS check, they do NOT ask how many guns you are buying, what brands they are, what serial numbers, or anything like that.  I was told that the NICS people kept the info - your name, address, etc. - for 90 days, then purged it.

We, the dealer, then file the form 4473 away.  We are required by law to retain it for as long as we are in business.  If we go out of business, we are required to turn them over to the ATF.  I believe that at one time, ATF was trying to computerize all the info on surrendered forms (which would include the gun(s) and their serial numbers) but I think I remember that the NRA got Congress to shut that down.

If the police recover a gun at a crime scene, the trace process works like this.  They call it in to ATF, ATF calls the manufacturer, the manufacturer tells ATF which distributor that gun was shipped to, the ATF calls the distributor, who tells them which dealer that gun was shipped to, then ATF calls us, the dealer, and we have to go through our 4473 forms and find the sale and tell ATF who we sold the gun to.  ATF then gets back to the original PD with that info.

But the 4473 Forms are NEVER destroyed.

Here's a question for you NRA members.  How many of you also belong to your state association?  In each of the fifty states, there is a statewide association that is affiliated with the NRA.  Here in NY, it's the New York State Rifle and Pistol Association.  In my opinion, the NRA does not do enough to encourage their members to join their state associations.  I suspect it's because they think they won't get as much money from the members if the members are also sending money to the state association.

As for myself, I let my NRA membership lapse back when they fired Neal Knox as director of the ILA for being too radical.  These days I'm a member of Gunowners of America, as well as still a member of NYSRPA.

Optimistic Paranoid said:

Let me comment on this.  I sold guns at a Gander Mountain for a number of years, so I understand how this works.

When you buy a gun from a dealer (FFL) you fill out a Form 4473.  We then take this form back to the office and call it in to the gubbermint to run the NICS check.  As part of the NICS check, they do NOT ask how many guns you are buying, what brands they are, what serial numbers, or anything like that.  I was told that the NICS people kept the info - your name, address, etc. - for 90 days, then purged it.

We, the dealer, then file the form 4473 away.  We are required by law to retain it for as long as we are in business.  If we go out of business, we are required to turn them over to the ATF.  I believe that at one time, ATF was trying to computerize all the info on surrendered forms (which would include the gun(s) and their serial numbers) but I think I remember that the NRA got Congress to shut that down.

If the police recover a gun at a crime scene, the trace process works like this.  They call it in to ATF, ATF calls the manufacturer, the manufacturer tells ATF which distributor that gun was shipped to, the ATF calls the distributor, who tells them which dealer that gun was shipped to, then ATF calls us, the dealer, and we have to go through our 4473 forms and find the sale and tell ATF who we sold the gun to.  ATF then gets back to the original PD with that info.

But the 4473 Forms are NEVER destroyed.

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Thanks for explaining....I wondered how that worked. 

Note that the Form 4473 is required only for dealers, i.e. those who "repetitively buy and sell firearms with the principal motive of making a profit" (quote from the ATF agency). Private sellers are not required to use the form or the NICS background check.

Yes thanks for explaining, and i will look for my state chapter and other associations to join as well. 

Great info all

NICS, or NCIS...?

NICS = National Instant Criminal background check System

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Instant_Criminal_Background_Check_System

Pardon me, Dave (OP), but I need to borrow this thread to publicly apologize to Tom since this is the thread I was out of line toward Tom on.

Tom,

My FIL had a sign in his house that read, ?My barn, my rules.?  Well, it was explained to me in a very patient and understandable way that this is your house and regardless of how others misbehave in it, I should behave and let you handle those who are out of line in your house your way and that it is not my place to do so. 

The right thing for me to do is apologize to you publicly -explain that I just took it on myself to straighten someone out for being out of line, but I was wrong. Again, your barn, your way.

I am sorry for causing YOU grief and I humbly thank you for being as gracious as you have been.

Thanks FenderP, apology accepted and appreciated.

As a long(ish) time member, not a big participator, but someone who checks the "new topics" at least twice every day and an "outsider" (Non USA member of this forum), I have absolutely zero interest in...

USA internal politics...
Guns or any associations for or against guns...
Religion of any kind...

I have a keen interest in World politics including the US's participation in them, but I get my information on this from a wide selection of sources and not from any of the "special interest" forums I support (for instance, "The RVforum", the "geocaching" the "the mountain bike forum" the dodge ram forum" the "I pull the wings off flies forum"  or the like)

Why is it that members of this forum who have interests, valid interests, in these often divisive and inflammatory topics persist in continuing to start forum discussions on these topics.

Do they not know that by even starting a topic that broadly skirts the periphery of any one of these subjects is surely going get the attention of the more stubbornly opinionated and the topic will surely end up denigrating into a flame war and thus be locked. Or is this the actual purpose of starting the topic, just to inflame.

This forum as has been stated many many times aspires to be ( and truly is) "Is the friendliest place on the web for anyone with an RV or an interest in RVing".
"We are the oldest online RV community.
Our forum members hail from around the globe. They come together in the RV Forum to share common interests and to share their combined knowledge and experience to help anyone with a question about any aspect of RVing."

Our moderators here have set very specific rules that we all agreed to at signup and they do a very good job of moderating them, often in my opinion far too leniently, but there we go, inserting opinions again.

I'd personally like to see a total lockdown of these subjects even if the initial subject seems relatively harmless, but again, my opinion.

Would it be possible to have a non- binding referendum vote on the subject of whether to maintain the status quo, open up the doors or totally ban these subjects to give Tom and the moderators a sense of the  feelings of the majority of the members.

I'm sure I'll come back and clean this up on edit once I have re-read it a few times

Thanks for taking the time and giving me the freedom to rant.



Cheers,
Geoff

Tom said:

Thanks FenderP, apology accepted and appreciated.

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)

sightseers said:

HA!

I just figured it out.  Since the NRA is not a Government entity,  everyone should just use an alias when they join. 

I get dibs on..  'Mathew Quigley'    )

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Hahaaa. Genius!

Gary RV_Wizard said:

Note that the Form 4473 is required only for dealers, i.e. those who "repetitively buy and sell firearms with the principal motive of making a profit" (quote from the ATF agency). Private sellers are not required to use the form or the NICS background check.

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Many of my purchases are from private individuals.

Geoff, I am not sure what offends you so much about this topic, there has been no advocacy here, just discussion of group events, donation solicitation and the technical paperwork procedure for gun purchases.      As to the relationship to RV's in the US many people purchase RV's for the primary purpose of supporting hunting and fishing hobbies, guns are a tool of hunting.

I think what geof is saying is that he would like to see a vote of the members to see if they agree to have no grey area when it comes to these subjects.  I dont mind voting.  I was raised to believe everything was black and white but yet as an adult i have found that most things are grey.  So i guess that indicates what my vote will be. 

I personally dont feel that subject matter controls people, i think people control themselves and so i feel no matter what the subject matter there will always be grey because grey exists in the world and not just in the USA.

By the way i did check my state chapter of the NRA and there is not one close enough for me.

  Geoff, You have some very valid points. However, I have witnessed many RV related topics, having nothing to do with politics, religion, firearms, and or sex.....get ?heated? with some very derogatory comments. I dare say, with zero proof, that the majority of participants in this forum are from the US. Though many may despute the reality......that firearm  ownership, and the legalities therewith, are a valid topic in an RV forum by US participants. Even those from other nations, should be welcome to participate, provided they do so for knowledge not to start problems. ?If? rv?ers from, say Europe, wanted to discuss rv?ing at the Tour de France, and I had no interest.....I would simply ignore!  The same could be said for the ?travel trailer? topics on this forum,I have ?no? interest....therefore I do not enter that forum catagory. I do not enter, with the ?sole purpose? of instigating an argument.
    ?If? the anti- firearm folks would ?simply ignore? the topic.....those discussing the topic at hand, could enjoy the conversation and potentially enlighten those with limited knowledge on the subject! However, that ?does not? seem to be the case. There are a few that ?must? turn it into a pro or against battle.

          Todd

  Just wait until we get going on the "toilet paper testing" __it really hits the fan but on the whole everything is kept pretty clean.

FenderP said:

Many of my purchases are from private individuals.

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And any gun that WAS bought on a 4473 was lost at sea in a tragic boating accident, right?  ;D

Memtb said:

  Geoff, You have some very valid points. However, I have witnessed many RV related topics, having nothing to do with politics, religion, firearms, and or sex.....get ?heated? with some very derogatory comments. I dare say, with zero proof, that the majority of participants in this forum are from the US. Though many may despute the reality......that firearm  ownership, and the legalities therewith, are a valid topic in an RV forum by US participants. Even those from other nations, should be welcome to participate, provided they do so for knowledge not to start problems. ?If? rv?ers from, say Europe, wanted to discuss rv?ing at the Tour de France, and I had no interest.....I would simply ignore!  The same could be said for the ?travel trailer? topics on this forum,I have ?no? interest....therefore I do not enter that forum catagory. I do not enter, with the ?sole purpose? of instigating an argument.
    ?If? the anti- firearm folks would ?simply ignore? the topic.....those discussing the topic at hand, could enjoy the conversation and potentially enlighten those with limited knowledge on the subject! However, that ?does not? seem to be the case. There are a few that ?must? turn it into a pro or against battle.

          Todd

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Wow!  What a concept!  Just don?t go to the threads that do not interest you!  Sounds like Great advice to me.