Towing with a 2000 Astro Van

spencerpj said:

Just my Opinion

It looks like trailer is sitting correct, so the height of the ball seems correct.  You seem to have a little sag still in your rear end of the Astro, you might try setting one link tighter on the chain, and it will push the front end down.

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I am going to "rig up" again this weekend and give that a try.... I am at the recommended minimum links of 5 right now... so I would have to take everything apart and re-do...

Any opinion if I just move up a link to test? (with a 20 minute drive to test)
Or would that be pushing my good luck?
Thanks
Patricia

SarniaTricia said:

I am going to "rig up" again this weekend and give that a try.... I am at the recommended minimum links of 5 right now... so I would have to take everything apart and re-do...

Any opinion if I just move up a link to test? (with a 20 minute drive to test)
Or would that be pushing my good luck?
Thanks
Patricia

Click to expand...

I hate to give bad advise, the minimum links are there to allow flex in the bar I think.  How is your front measurement with the tape measure?  If you are that close with the links, taking the two bolts out and sliding whole mess up a hole won't be hard, you are already familiar with how it all works...  Sounds like you might need to anyway.  It took me twice to get mine right, and I like it.  When you get the correct force on the front end, it will handle so much better, especially at hwy speed.

The minimum links are to allow flexibility forward and back as the truck turns in relation to the trailer, not for the bars flexing.  You can see this in your photos where the right side arm is further forward than the left because the van is turned to the left.

I can't tell from the pictures, but does your hitch have a way to tilt the head assembly backwards?  Tilting the head will make the equalizing arms start at more of a downward slant and you'll have more range to get the correct tension without running short of chain links.

Re-evaluate the attitude of the trailer after you get the arms adjusted to make the van ride level.  The trailer may be nose-up when you get the van leveled out, if so just move the hitch down one bolt hole so the also trailer rides level.

As far as going up one more link on the chains for a test drive, give it a try. Just don't make any sharp turns and be prepared to stop and re-rig if you get strange noises.

Setting up a WD hitch is NOT a cookie cutter, do it once and done deal.  With a new camper, even if the dealer set it up perfectly (unlikely), when you pull it home and add your stuff, the weight changes and the setup will need adjusted.

While the instructions are a great place to start, almost every setup needs tweaked to get it right!

I agree with Lou  and grashley  )  :

Thanks very much everyone!!

I did measure before hook-up and all four measurements were within 1\4 inch of not hooked up
The rear of the van does normally sit lower.... when I rework this I might be able to lift the rear a bit.

I have a full day off Sunday that I can load the Van EXACTLY like I will be doing for convention (my big trip) and re-work the whole set-up.... I will be doing all the driving and want to lessen the fatigue I get when driving with the trailer in tow....(I have a friend that may be going with me, but the one time I was in the van while she was driving it scared the hell out of me... so, she doesn't get to tow, we will be out of control in a hot minute!!)

I did get the rear shocks done about a month or so ago, but I think I might have some spring sag going on .... :|.... not sure if I should invest the $ on the old girl or try and find a half ton truck with a cap... but that is a personal decision and not one I want to get into right now... lol (I know everyone here will opt for the half ton truck.. my bank account will argue with your though)

SarniaTricia said:

Thanks very much everyone!!

I did measure before hook-up and all four measurements were within 1\4 inch of not hooked up
The rear of the van does normally sit lower.... when I rework this I might be able to lift the rear a bit.

Click to expand...

That changes things.  As long as the front of the van did not rise at all, your hitch is probably set correctly.

You can try increasing the tension on the arms to put more weight on the steering tires, as long as you do NOT raise the back end beyond it's unloaded height.

If the van normally sits tail-down, you need to preserve that posture when the trailer is attached until you fix what's causing it to ride that way.

If either end of the van raises beyond the unloaded height, you've removed weight and traction from those tires.

Lou Schneider said:

That changes things.  As long as the front of the van did not rise at all, your hitch is probably set correctly.

You can try increasing the tension on the arms to put more weight on the steering tires, as long as you do NOT raise the back end beyond it's unloaded height.

If the van normally sits tail-down, you need to preserve that posture when the trailer is attached until you fix what's causing it to ride that way.

If either end of the van raises beyond the unloaded height, you've removed weight and traction from those tires.

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Removing traction was exactly my concern on reworking the WDH to bring more weight to the front ...

I am still going to do a trial run loaded more accurately this weekend... I do have the van loaded with my Farmers Market stuff (market stuff will go into garage storage). I want to remove a set of seats and I will add my BBQ and the rabbit cages as well as a bag of feed and other supplies... I will be shopping for the kitchen after I get parked, so I am thinking that I don't need to account for people feed in the loading... just cloths, personal supplies, rabbits and rabbit related stuff... the rest is already packed and ready to go in the TT!

I'm not convinced that a WD hitch was necessary. I have hauled heavier loads without one and never had an issue. They do help pick up a sagging rear a little, but I don't think that was the main issue.

I do, however, think a different style of WD hitch would be better. You have the bars, but the chains allow a lot of play without much side to side friction as opposed to the rigid style where the bars rub on a metal plate. The friction of the rigid plates resist that side to side pivoting naturally.  Are the bars on your WD hitch square? Maybe you can just order the plates and install those in place of the chains. Otherwise, you can get a receiver with a sway bar mount and add a separate sway bar to the trailer.

Sway bar. $40
https://www.cabelas.com/catalog/product.jsp?productId=1191263&type=product&WT.z_btnclk=YMAL-1191263&WT.z_pg_ref=prd1804296

Sway bar receiver. $30
https://www.cabelas.com/catalog/product.jsp?productId=1804296&type=product&WT.z_btnclk=YMAL-1804296&WT.z_pg_ref=prd1191263

If you want to fix the sagging, get some air bags or adjustable air shocks. 

cerd said:

I'm not convinced that a WD hitch was necessary. I have hauled heavier loads without one and never had an issue. They do help pick up a sagging rear a little, but I don't think that was the main issue.

I do, however, think a different style of WD hitch would be better. You have the bars, but the chains allow a lot of play without much side to side friction as opposed to the rigid style where the bars rub on a metal plate. The friction of the rigid plates resist that side to side pivoting naturally.  Are the bars on your WD hitch square? Maybe you can just order the plates and install those in place of the chains. Otherwise, you can get a receiver with a sway bar mount and add a separate sway bar to the trailer.

Sway bar. $40
https://www.cabelas.com/catalog/product.jsp?productId=1191263&type=product&WT.z_btnclk=YMAL-1191263&WT.z_pg_ref=prd1804296

Sway bar receiver. $30
https://www.cabelas.com/catalog/product.jsp?productId=1804296&type=product&WT.z_btnclk=YMAL-1804296&WT.z_pg_ref=prd1191263

If you want to fix the sagging, get some air bags or adjustable air shocks.

Click to expand...

I have been using a friction anti-sway control bar since my first trip in March this year..... the Anti-sway bar has made a significant difference in overall handing... I replaced the shocks about a month ago...

I did a lot of research before spending the $$$ for this WDH .... I needed to take the tongue weight off the rear axil of the TV (I was getting some serious SQUATTING) and get it more evenly distributed over the whole rig.... I think this addition has done that (if I have it hooked up right)..... I am just a bit disappointed that there isn't a more significant difference in handling... This fix might be more of a rear spring issue (as the van sits lower without the TT attached)

SarniaTricia said:

I have been using a friction anti-sway control bar since my first trip in March this year..... the Anti-sway bar has made a significant difference in overall handing... I replaced the shocks about a month ago...

I did a lot of research before spending the $$$ for this WDH .... I needed to take the tongue weight off the rear axil of the TV (I was getting some serious SQUATTING) and get it more evenly distributed over the whole rig.... I think this addition has done that (if I have it hooked up right)..... I am just a bit disappointed that there isn't a more significant difference in handling... This fix might be more of a rear spring issue (as the van sits lower without the TT attached)

Click to expand...

That does indeed change my opinion that the WDH needs tightened up.  You shouldn't gain rear end height after installed.  I agree about the rear springs, but not overall familiar with Astro posture.  But if the rear springs are saggin, and you replaced them, it would certainly tighten up your whole set-up, especially your driving handling experience.

spencerpj said:

That does indeed change my opinion that the WDH needs tightened up.  You shouldn't gain rear end height after installed.  I agree about the rear springs, but not overall familiar with Astro posture.  But if the rear springs are saggin, and you replaced them, it would certainly tighten up your whole set-up, especially your driving handling experience.

Click to expand...

I hate it when I get the answer I expect, but don't want to hear ... 

You seem pretty knowledgeable regarding how your car should ride, loaded and unloaded.

Out of curiosity, why didn't you change the springs when you did the shocks? That's what takes the load. The shocks just reduce the bouncing.

Are you bringing it to a shop or doing it yourself? If you do it yourself, just cut all of the bolts off of the leaf springs and replace them with new. You'll save yourself a lot of headache. I wasted 6 hours trying to save the bolts on my s10 when I should have just cut them from the start. They were completely rusted on and a 5 foot cheater bar didn't help.

Just so you know, the purpose of a WDH is to transfer weight to the front axle, it serves no other purpose. That was kinda mentioned, but not outright. One word of caution is do not transfer enough weight forward to have the front axle heavier with the trailer hitched up and the WDH set than what the axle was before hitching the trailer. Lifting the rear of the tow vehicle is not the wdh's job. As Lou said, if the rear of the tow vehicle sags normally, it will sag when using the WDH. If you want to get the sag out, try airbags, but you may have to readjust the WDH.

SarniaTricia said:

I hate it when I get the answer I expect, but don't want to hear ... 

Click to expand...

LOL
Found this that might help, it is simple adding a leaf spring support.  Guy on video seemed to like it, and fairly simple and inexpensive.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29tMvVkEZ4E

cerd said:

You seem pretty knowledgeable regarding how your car should ride, loaded and unloaded.

Out of curiosity, why didn't you change the springs when you did the shocks? That's what takes the load. The shocks just reduce the bouncing.

Are you bringing it to a shop or doing it yourself? If you do it yourself, just cut all of the bolts off of the leaf springs and replace them with new. You'll save yourself a lot of headache. I wasted 6 hours trying to save the bolts on my s10 when I should have just cut them from the start. They were completely rusted on and a 5 foot cheater bar didn't help.

Click to expand...

cerd
We had the shocks and my hubby and "the boy" do a lot of the work in the driveway....
I thought the shocks would correct the sag... sadly I was wrong.... Thank you for the advice to just cut the bolts... I will likely be helping to replace the leaf springs and will instruct the boys on this!....

spencerpj said:

LOL
Found this that might help, it is simple adding a leaf spring support.  Guy on video seemed to like it, and fairly simple and inexpensive.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29tMvVkEZ4E

Click to expand...

Before buying the WDH I looked for spring support additions and they were all priced higher then the WDH!! This time I had a better idea of what I was looking for and yes, they are much more affordable.

Did a bunch of looking at this (from the video) and found a more robust version of it...
I believe the one on the video has a 500lb rating and the more robust has a 1,500lb rating...
(does not add to GVWR** - payload rating is 1310lbs and I think the more robust would be a good idea)

I think I will be investing in one of these... the more robust one... it is less expensive then the full spring replace and it looks like I won't need "the boys" to install it either.... but, I'll let them help, because they like to feel useful... and it is a lady's job to make her men feel useful.... or at least let them bark their knuckles and swear instead of doing so herself...

SarniaTricia said:

I think I will be investing in one of these... the more robust one... it is less expensive then the full spring replace and it looks like I won't need "the boys" to install it either.... but, I'll let them help, because they like to feel useful... and it is a lady's job to make her men feel useful.... or at least let them bark their knuckles and swear instead of doing so herself...

Click to expand...

Quite the character 

We ALL certainly will be interested in how well this works on your van.

And maybe the 'boys' can fetch you the tools you'll need 


One more thing.  I see your tire pressure is 35 psi.  What is the rated MAX on your tire?  Not that I would go up to the max, but if it is say 'max 45psi', I would bump up the rear tire pressure to 40 while towing, it also would stiffin up your rear end a tad, lol.

spencerpj said:

Quite the character 

We ALL certainly will be interested in how well this works on your van.

And maybe the 'boys' can fetch you the tools you'll need 


One more thing.  I see your tire pressure is 35 psi.  What is the rated MAX on your tire?  Not that I would go up to the max, but if it is say 'max 45psi', I would bump up the rear tire pressure to 40 while towing, it also would stiffin up your rear end a tad, lol.

Click to expand...

I'll check on the max tire pressure and keep an update.....
I like to enjoy life and we don't get out of it alive, so we might as well fun it up!

I let "the boys" help were they can... lol  ;D ..... They aren't very good at fetching, because they usually don't put the tools back in the same place and most of the time they holler at me to help them find it...    (other times it's me hollering at them)

SarniaTricia said:

Before buying the WDH I looked for spring support additions and they were all priced higher then the WDH!! This time I had a better idea of what I was looking for and yes, they are much more affordable.

Did a bunch of looking at this (from the video) and found a more robust version of it...
I believe the one on the video has a 500lb rating and the more robust has a 1,500lb rating...
(does not add to GVWR** - payload rating is 1310lbs and I think the more robust would be a good idea)

I think I will be investing in one of these... the more robust one... it is less expensive then the full spring replace and it looks like I won't need "the boys" to install it either.... but, I'll let them help, because they like to feel useful... and it is a lady's job to make her men feel useful.... or at least let them bark their knuckles and swear instead of doing so herself...

Click to expand...

I would highly recommend against this. The main control of your rig is dependent on the tow vehicle. If your tow vehicle is lacking performance, then you are risking safety. Essentially, you are transferring weight needed on the back tires to maintain traction to the trailer, which you have little control over. Every bump could alter how your van tracks.

More importantly, you don't want to risk having one break. At that point, there is nothing keeping your axle under your vehicle. I broke a spring on my s10 and the axle was on the frame. At that time, I was driving white knuckle, praying that the axle didn't twist or let go for the whole 30 miles that I was driving home. The only thing holding it on was 1 of the 4 leafs that was now way overstressed and the shock on that side.  I didn't exceed 30 MPH and slowed way down for every noticeable bump. I made it home, but it was a nightmare that I don't wish upon anybody. I was also unloaded. I can't imagine what would have happened if it let go while I was towing anything.

Rockauto lists springs as low as $110 each. Call it $250 with replacement bolts and U bolts if you do it yourself. This is the preferred route because you know there is no history and therefore, no wear, stress, or degradation.

If that is not justifiable, you could get some used springs from a salvage yard using car-part.com. If you take the used route, I would recommend buying a set from something newer, such as a 2004 or 2005 since they wouldn't have been degraded as much as another 2000 along with fewer miles and therefore, less flexing and wear.

There is also a 3 leaf version and a 4 leaf version. Make sure you have the 4 leaf version, unless you can find one that already has the add a leaf kit installed, making it a 5 leaf.