New tires - question about vibration

John From Detroit mentioned Tire Truing.  For those who aren't familiar with it, here's a pretty good article to provide some background on it:

http://www.fourwheeler.com/how-to/wheels-tires/129-0210-4x4-truck-tire-truing-balancing-shaving/

Debra17 said:

Ford's drivetrain warranty is 60,000/5 years. So I have 5,000 miles left on the warranty. My plan now is to go to a Ford dealer to have the drivetrain checked to see if they can find anything wrong. They also should be able to do the road force balancing if it may be needed.

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I think that is a great idea  )  Good luck, and hopefully whatever it is, is still under the warranty.  I agree with Boonieman, is seems like a u-joint, although odd on a truck with less than 60k miles, but I've seen crazier things for sure.

I had a 2003 Dodge 3500, SRW Cummins with a vibration issue at 30,000 miles. I got under the truck and could tell the rear u joint was bad. It was in the shop for four weeks, under warranty. They replaced both front axle u joints, replaced the front differential, and replaced the front drive shaft and still had vibration. They finally replaced the rear u joint and corrected the problem. At one point I asked why it was taking so long to get my truck back and the service manager told me they had to order a ?bearing stretcher?. No, I am not kidding. I traded off the Dodge for a 2006 Ford F-350 while the Dodge was still on the rack waiting to be repaired. Lots of really good shops out there, some not so much. I really hope you get your problem solved.

Boonieman said:

I traded off the Dodge for a 2006 Ford F-350 while the Dodge was still on the rack waiting to be repaired. Lots of really good shops out there, some not so much. I really hope you get your problem solved.

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Coming from a man driving a Chevy.  8)

Good luck, be persistent for sure.  Go on the test drive with the technician if you can, make sure he understands your concerns and issue and please let us know your results.  )

You are right Spencer, I?m not brand loyal. The truck guys need to stay on their toes to get my money, same as the RV folks.  ?

Old_Crow said:

Call the tire shops in your area and find one that can do "road force balancing".  The machine puts a roller against the tread to simulate the force of the road against the tire while balancing it.  Much more accurate for finding runout or other tire problems.

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This is the test Big O did after I complained about wheel shake following front tire replacement on my 1/2 ton Dodge. One tire they were able to demount, remount 180 degrees out then rebalance, the other was a factory flaw and had to be replaced

Since the shake is in steering wheel,rotate front tires to the rear to see if it goes away.If gone,you now know what tires to look at.If not,maybe wheel bearings etc

A bearing stretcher or a leg puller?????

Both tires and rims are manufactured to tolerances ... nothing is perfectly "in round".

That's the basis of the suggestion to rotate the tires on the rim.  Sometimes the tolerances line up so they add up and exceed the allowable maximum, creating an out of round vibration.

Rotating the tire a half turn on the rim changes the position of the tolerances between them.  It can make the vibration better ... or worse.  I had this problem on a Ford F-250 pickup and lucked out - the tire dealer was able to locate the problem wheel and cancel out the vibration by rotating the tire on the rim.

Don't just accept it and put off the fix - the vibration will only get worse as the tire wears and the constant motion will increase wear on the other steering parts.

AFAIK, it has not yet been established that it is not a mechanical problem with the front end or u-joints, or an alignment problem.

**IF** we become sure it isn't one of those problems, and we think a tire balance problem is all that's left, I would suggest that the original poster take a look at tire balancing beads.

http://www.innovativebalancing.com/

I have to say, I haven't used them personally.  I've never had a problem with tire balance, not that I could feel while driving, anyway.  Just lucky, I guess.

I hear good things about them, but they also have their detractors.  I'm sure a few people here will jump in and call me an idiot for mentioning them.

But then, there are people here who will disagree with me if I claim the sun rises in the east. 

UPDATE- not so good ?

When I left Cortez CO I wanted to go to the Ford dealer in Farmington NM to inspect the truck and do the road force balance if needed. The store where I purchased the tires has a location in Farmington. The Ford place was scheduling appointments for 2 weeks out and I didn?t want to stay there that long. I made my way down through NM and am now in Sierra Vista AZ. Took truck to Ford dealer here. They checked drivetrain and suspension- no issues. Did road force balance and found 3 of the 4 tires are bad!  Two were 60 and one was 90. Not supposed to exceed 35.

Unfortunately there isn?t a Goodyear store here so will have to go to Tucson to try to get the tires replaced under warranty. I really hate hassling with this kind of thing and so tend to procrastinate. Actually if not for everyone urging me to get it checked I may have just checked ignored it. I know I need to follow through on it though. I?ve been buying tires for a lot of years and this is first time I have had defective tires.

Will update what happens with Goodyear. I?m also going to call the store in Cortez and tell them the tires are bad.

Thanks for the update Debra17. 

Ed

Lou Schneider said:

Both tires and rims are manufactured to tolerances ... nothing is perfectly "in round".

That's the basis of the suggestion to rotate the tires on the rim.  Sometimes the tolerances line up so they add up and exceed the allowable maximum, creating an out of round vibration.

Rotating the tire a half turn on the rim changes the position of the tolerances between them.  It can make the vibration better ... or worse.  I had this problem on a Ford F-250 pickup and lucked out - the tire dealer was able to locate the problem wheel and cancel out the vibration by rotating the tire on the rim.

Don't just accept it and put off the fix - the vibration will only get worse as the tire wears and the constant motion will increase wear on the other steering parts.

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Hunter makes machines to match balance, called Road Force Balancing. This is where the egg shape of the tire is matched to the egg shape of the wheel. 

Did road force balance and found 3 of the 4 tires are bad!  Two were 60 and one was 90. Not supposed to exceed 35.

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Not sure what those numbers represent, but presumably they are telling you the tires cannot be balanced properly with the Hunter Road Force machine? 

Be aware that the problem could be with your wheels rather than the tires - bent or out of round wheels are not rare

What is up with all these tire issues ?

I drove large trucks for over 40 years for a living.  I have had probably 100 tires changed roadside,  I have never had a large truck tire balanced or trued...and I've never had noticed a tire balance or truing problem.

.... has something changed with tires the last 10 years?

More detail on the road force results. The 3 tires have high spots exceed the amount that can be corrected by moving the high spot on the tire to the low spot on rim. They did say my wheels are okay. The 4th tire did not require any adjustment. I was told that a reading over 35 could not be corrected by rotating the tire on the rim. Whether or not this is true I don?t know as I don?t have any knowledge of this process. I had never heard of it prior to this situation.

I did google road force balance to learn more. The couple pages I read were using amounts like 15 which was corrected to 8. So these amounts that I have been given seem way out of range.

To me it seems pretty unusual that I would get 3 bad tires. Unless they had been sitting in stock at the tire store for a long time and weren?t stored properly. The DOT date code on all 4 is 4617. So they were manufactured almost a year ago. I mentioned this at the tire store and they replied that was normal as the tires have to cure for six months before going to distribution. Don?t know if this is true.

Debra17 said:

To me it seems pretty unusual that I would get 3 bad tires. Unless they had been sitting in stock at the tire store for a long time and weren?t stored properly. The DOT date code on all 4 is 4617. So they were manufactured almost a year ago. I mentioned this at the tire store and they replied that was normal as the tires have to cure for six months before going to distribution. Don?t know if this is true.

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That sounds like a salesman's line, right up there with "your truck will tow this trailer just fine."

On popular sizes like those used on pickup trucks, delivery vans, etc. it's not unusual to see DOT date codes within a few weeks of the sale date.

I'd like to see the size of a warehouse that could store 6 months worth of tire production.

That?s kind of what I thought also. But if you don?t really know you can?t just tell someone they?re lying! ?Before I started learning about RVs and got on this forum I didn?t know about the date code on the tire. So I had never looked at it in the past to know how old my tires were. 

Debra17 said:

More detail on the road force results. The 3 tires have high spots exceed the amount that can be corrected by moving the high spot on the tire to the low spot on rim. They did say my wheels are okay.

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While it would certainly be unusual for 3 out of 4 brand name tires to be that far out of spec, just because the odds are against it doesn't mean it can't happen. The bottom line is everything was fine with the truck until you changed the tires - that narrows it right down. Get the tires replaced and go from there