rvupgradestore.com Composet Products Fridge Defend
RV Life Magazine RV Park Reviews RV Trip Wizard

Author Topic: and the definition of Four-Season is....  (Read 715 times)

Maui Sunset

  • Posts: 3
and the definition of Four-Season is....
« on: October 04, 2018, 06:09:27 PM »
Hi, new to RVing and this forum

Basically, we are looking for an alternative to buying a house or paying $30k a year
to rent/own a house near our son when they get their first baby

Our son lives in St. Louis and an RV is an alternative to us
except for December - March
where the temp averages 20F with a low of 0F and sometimes into the mid 40's

So I need a Four-Season RV
but that seems harder to find than a Unicorn or a Leprechaun

Winter to an RV is like silver to a Vampire
something both want to live without

I did a search here for "four-season" and basically found nothing that helps describe
what "Winter" is to the RV world

thanks for any feedback

camperAL

  • ---
  • Posts: 1329
  • Back Into RV'ing
CamperAL (Indiana)
(2006 Coachmen Mirada 290 KS )

Maui Sunset

  • Posts: 3
Re: and the definition of Four-Season is....
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2018, 06:31:02 PM »
Thanks for the reply.

We are leaning towards a Class 3 or maybe a 3+
I can see where a 5th wheeler might be rated to 0F
they totally design where everything goes versus having to live with a truck/van undercarriage
but I don't think ANYONE in the Class 3/3+ world certifies a rig for 0F

A few Class 3's have ALL water lines and the water tank internal
but the Black and Gray are external with aquarium style heating pads slapped on the bottom

The real trick seems to be heating the inside of the coach to a livable temperature
just like in a house - turn off the furnace in your house in St. Louis in February
and water pipes will burst

ArdraF

  • ---
  • Posts: 10537
Re: and the definition of Four-Season is....
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2018, 06:42:18 PM »
Maui Sunset,

Welcome to the RV Forum.  In reading your last post I'm a tad confused.  We tend to talk about RVs in terms of alphabetical letters instead of numbers, e.g. Class A, Class B, Class C, so I'm not sure what you mean by a Class 3.  Could you please clarify what you mean?  Our Library (button above) has a section on identifying types of RVs that might help you.

Also, sometimes they use the term "Arctic package" or something similar to mean an RV that might be better suited to cold weather. 

ArdraF
ArdraF
:D :D

Utclmjmpr

  • ---
  • Posts: 4263
Re: and the definition of Four-Season is....
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2018, 06:45:05 PM »
 Not only are RVs NOT built for it,, the manufacturers state that they DO NOT recommend 4 season living are "full time" living at all.>>>Dan
Vary rare American Tradition 38TT/330 turbo Cummins
Last year Jeep liberty 4 down
72 VW Baja 4 down
Cedar City, Utah
USAF vet. 59-63
FMCA F312919
The difference between intelligence & stupidity is: intelligence has it's limits
      Albert Einstein.

UTTransplant

  • ---
  • Posts: 2091
  • Cedar Falls, Iowa
Re: and the definition of Four-Season is....
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2018, 06:59:23 PM »
We had an Outdoors RV travel trailer advertised as four season. We were comfortable to about 15-20. But when it got down to 7 and didn’t get above 32 for quite a few days in a row, we had a pipe freeze. This was in a sheltered spot with basically unlimited propane and electric. Staying unfrozen in a cold climate can be done, but it is a lot of work. The newer ORV units have corrected the defec that allowed our pipe to freeze (routing it outside the heated compartments), but they also cost half again to twice as much as most trailers.
Pam and Kevin plus Lily the cat
2018 Tiffin 37PA
2018 Jeep Grand Cherokee Trailhawk toad
https://toobusyforwork.com

ksbowman

  • ---
  • Posts: 152
Re: and the definition of Four-Season is....
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2018, 07:51:56 PM »
In North Dakota, when the oil pipeline  workers were in rv's there were some camps setup with inside camping. The story I read on them said each one was a separate shelter (although a single partioned room) and heated to a certain temperature to keep from having any freezing problems. Exhaust hookups for furnace exhaust or you heated with electric heat in the rv. Sounds like a similar situation would be great for you.

Memtb

  • ---
  • Posts: 799
Re: and the definition of Four-Season is....
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2018, 09:30:40 AM »
   There are several that “were” factory warrantied to a -20 F. But, most of these manufacturers folded when the economy “took a dump” around 2007/08! If you’re willing to buy used....they are out there and available! There are a few new (darn few) that will qualify as a “true” 4 season unit. An affordable “new” 4-season unit to consider....would be the Arctic Fox. But (IMO), it’s not a -20 F 5er....without some special provisions  taken!
Todd and Marianne
Home Base: Winchester, Wy.
Miniature Schnauzers - Sundai, Nellie and Maggie Mae
2007 Dodge Ram 3500,  6.7 Ram 6 speed manual, 4x4
2004 Teton Grand Freedom
2007 Bigfoot Class C

Lou Schneider

  • Global Moderator
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 9778
Re: and the definition of Four-Season is....
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2018, 04:47:49 PM »
... Arizona or Florida in the winter, northern states for the summer.  Spring and fall in-between.

Hammster

  • Guest
Re: and the definition of Four-Season is....
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2018, 06:39:25 PM »
Outdoor RV's sister company, Northwood mfg, also does 4 season manufacturing.
Their Arctic Fox line is sold that way. Their Nash line mostly is, but might need a few options installed. I say might because Northwood constantly updates their lines.
All plumbing is inside the rig. Holding tanks are enclosed and have some batt insulation. The holding tanks are heated via the furnace ducting, and some also have heat pads. Anything external to the rig, of course, has to be protected.
Standard is dual pane windows too.
We have an Arctic Fox 22G and it stays pretty toasty in most conditions, especially from freezing and above.

rbTN

  • ---
  • Posts: 95
Re: and the definition of Four-Season is....
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2018, 06:48:32 PM »
I've been looking at TT the last few weeks and have seen a Keystone Springdale with the arctic pkg (still don't know exactly what that includes) and a North Trail the is "rated" to 0 degrees.. (again not exactly sure what that includes) the mfgs do not seem to want to spell out their pkgs or the extent that you can overwinter in their units.

I'm looking for a TT that I can stay in at any time of the yr in TN, winters are not that bad, but sometimes do get close 0 for a day
middle TN
was - 2001 Ram 2500 4x4 5.9 cummins, auto, camper pkg, trailer pkg (still have the 2001)
now - 2014 Ram 2500 6.7 Cummins, CC long bed SLT 4x4
2007 Thor Denahli 26RL
Equalizer hitch
300 watt Renogy system with 40amp mppt Rover

Hammster

  • Guest
Re: and the definition of Four-Season is....
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2018, 06:57:12 PM »
I've been looking at TT the last few weeks and have seen a Keystone Springdale with the arctic pkg (still don't know exactly what that includes) and a North Trail the is "rated" to 0 degrees.. (again not exactly sure what that includes) the mfgs do not seem to want to spell out their pkgs or the extent that you can overwinter in their units.

I'm looking for a TT that I can stay in at any time of the yr in TN, winters are not that bad, but sometimes do get close 0 for a day

Northwood's Arctic Fox line includes the following;
First off, always 4 season ready.
Enclosed, insulated, and heated holding tanks.
Rigid cell double density foam insulation in the walls. Most manufacturers use single density foam.
Entire underside of the rig is insulated with batt insulation.
Batt insulation in the roof.
Water and drain lines are inside the rig as much as possible. On our 22G the only things outside of the rig are a bit of the drain line from the gray tank to where it attaches to the main drain line. Drain lines running from the tanks are inside the enclosure. Knife valves for gray and black tanks are inside their tank's enclosure and heated.
All water lines are inside the rig.
Dual pane windows.
External storage access doors are 1" thick, insulated.
Not sure how much of this is standard to other manufacturers, but this is what our Arctic Fox has.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2018, 06:59:07 PM by Hammster »

Hanr3

  • ---
  • Posts: 392
Re: and the definition of Four-Season is....
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2018, 08:33:56 PM »
KZ Sportsmen series also have a "climate package". Fully enclosed, insulated and heated underbelly. Which includes all the tanks and all the hoses are inside the walls, except the drain lines. The hoses are not in the walls, but inside the camper. Another option to check out. I bought mine a couple months ago, so no winter experience in it, yet. Deer camp in the middle of November will be the first test. Then I start camping/fishing once the ice is off the lakes, usually first of March. Morning temps in the high 20's and day temps in the low 40's. Power lakes the water temps can be in the 50's-70's. Been tent camping those trips for 40 years, next year I'll be in the camper.  For me, the camper is a huge upgrade over the tent.

Might I suggest moving a little further south during the cold spells. I'm about 4 hours North of St. Louis and while we have winter and snow. We tend to be on the cusp between snow and rain. Mostly we get ice and a day or two it all melts off. I would classify St. Louis weather more mild then up here, and they get even fewer snow days. We average 6-8 snow storms a year. I used to plow and tracked snow events closely. $$$.
2016 F150 3.5L Ecoboost XLT
2019 K-Z 231RK Sportsmen
1997 16' Sylvan Back Troller Select

Frank B

  • ---
  • Posts: 1349
Re: and the definition of Four-Season is....
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2018, 10:26:51 PM »
We used to winter camp in minus 30 degree celsius weather, but it was in a much modified trailer, and we only did it for a few days at a time. We found condensation on the windows to be a problem after a few days. It had additional heat ducting  run through the cupboards and storage areas, and across the bottom of  the tanks, and the whole bottom of the trailer was sprayed with urethane foam. It also had no slides. Slides are terrible heat wasters, as the walls are 1 in thick instead of 2, and the exposed surface area is very great!


Another issue will be getting water in and waste out of the unit without freezing up.


Might you want to consider a small house trailer which is built to be lived in as opposed to a travel trailer which is not?


We currently have an arctic fox, but it is nowhere near as capable as the much modified fifth wheel that we had before when it comes to cold weather. Cold-weather Fox is a better description. :-)
Linux:  Free, open, elegant.
06 GMC 3500 Duramax crew/long pulling 2010 Arctic Fox 30U with 1700 lb Reese Titan Class 5.
1.2 kw solar

Memtb

  • ---
  • Posts: 799
Re: and the definition of Four-Season is....
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2018, 05:11:32 AM »
   Maui Sunset, There is or was two, very desirable sounding Teton Homes 5th wheels for sale on RVTrader.com. If these are in good condition, either would be a great full time, four season unit. Presently, there are 24 Tetons on RVTrader.
   Of the two I mentioned, one was in Florida and one was in Park City, Utah. If we didn’t already own one, perfectly set-up for our lifestyle, we’d be taking a close look at the one in Park City!

   In a previous Teton (we’re on our fourth), we spent two winters in ours, seeing several minus 30’s or a bit cooler, and never froze anything. No specialized work was done to make it more “winterable”, with the exception of the fresh water to the unit....which was heat taped and insulated!  The “only” frost we had, was in the front closet. This was our first extended stay in below zero temperatures....and we should have left the sliding mirrored doors open! A pretty easy fix!

  One word of “warning” on some of the older (mid 90’s) Tetons. Some where offered with a fold-down rear bumper, giving access to a large, sliding tray storage (spare tire and additional room for other items). These were rear kitchen models, and with this tray system, the kitchen sink area did not get adequate heating from the heated underbelly. Our kitchen water would freeze in single digit (lees than 5 or 6 F). The Artic Pakage heat tape package would quickly thaw the lines....but it was a bad engineering idea for cool weather!
« Last Edit: October 06, 2018, 05:21:19 AM by Memtb »
Todd and Marianne
Home Base: Winchester, Wy.
Miniature Schnauzers - Sundai, Nellie and Maggie Mae
2007 Dodge Ram 3500,  6.7 Ram 6 speed manual, 4x4
2004 Teton Grand Freedom
2007 Bigfoot Class C

kdbgoat

  • ---
  • Posts: 6313
Re: and the definition of Four-Season is....
« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2018, 07:20:59 AM »
You may want to read the fine print on the 0 degree to 100 degree ratings. One must realize that those temps and tests are done in an enclosed building. No precipitation, no wind, no sunshine, especially direct sunshine. They also don't specify what the humidity or dew point is in the RV and test building. These things make a difference in the real world.
I know you believe you understand what you think I said,
But I am not sure you realize what you heard is not what I meant

2012 Redwood 36RL
2016 Leprechaun 319DS

John From Detroit

  • ---
  • Posts: 23346
  • ^My New Home^
    • Diabetics Forum
Re: and the definition of Four-Season is....
« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2018, 07:44:46 AM »
Lets see.. The Sales season... (Before you sign on the line)  The First Trip season (OH WOW a New RV) the Return to the dealer to fix stuff wrong season (If only they built 'em better) and finally we get into the Use it season.. Once we fix all the stuff that should have been fixed before the factory shipped it.

Oh and did you know there is one thing that crosses over all these seasons.. THe Money Bird Season (Where you money just flys away).
Nothing adds excitement like something that is none of your business
My Home is where I park it.

si camper

  • ---
  • Posts: 80
Re: and the definition of Four-Season is....
« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2018, 07:14:19 AM »
... Arizona or Florida in the winter, northern states for the summer.  Spring and fall in-between.
Same way I understood.  By 4-season they mean South of the Mason Dixon Line
Steve & Kim
2015 Sanibel Traveler 33RS
2011 F350 Lariat Diesel Crew Cab
Southern Illinois

steveblonde

  • ---
  • Posts: 2903
Re: and the definition of Four-Season is....
« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2018, 09:40:33 AM »
Same way I understood.  By 4-season they mean South of the Mason Dixon Line

Agreed 1million %

I have a "4 season " 5er heated tanks dual windows blah blah blah all i can say is poppycock no way would you last a winter in my rig

There are some fringe makers out there that make them for the guys up at ft mac - try roughneck trailers

https://www.roughnecktrailers.com/
2015 Voltage 3305 Toy Hauler - loaded
2019 F150 5l Super cab 8 ft box (company truck) daily driver
2017 Black on Black F350 Diesel Dually loaded  5167lbs cargo/weight capacity
Selling truck parts for 15 yrs plus
" If you're not living on the edge you're taking up too much space"
From Canada Eh

Memtb

  • ---
  • Posts: 799
Re: and the definition of Four-Season is....
« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2018, 10:53:45 AM »
   My personal definition of a 4-season RV: an RV, fully ready for use (all water systems operational)....that can maintain a comfortable interior environment, with the heater cycling on/off, without special insulating provisions (skirting, supplemental heat, additional insulation on windows, etc), for extended periods of time with lows to a -10 F.
  If the RV can meet these “qualifiers”..... I’d consider it a 4-season RV! 
Todd and Marianne
Home Base: Winchester, Wy.
Miniature Schnauzers - Sundai, Nellie and Maggie Mae
2007 Dodge Ram 3500,  6.7 Ram 6 speed manual, 4x4
2004 Teton Grand Freedom
2007 Bigfoot Class C