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Author Topic: Inverter  (Read 470 times)

Sailorkane

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Inverter
« on: October 01, 2018, 07:42:52 AM »
Apparently blew my Freedom 1500.  It will invert, but not charge.  Any idea if its repairable?  Its pretty old, but new ones are pricey and not a good time to spend a lot of $$.
Have a problem with plugging motorhome into GFI 50A outlet.  The Freedom apparently ties neutral and ground together which caused the GFI shore power outlet to trip.
If I replace it, any recommendations on "best" similar inverter/charger?  The freedom is 100A charger, which is huge.  I have been using a separate 10a charger and its not enough , so would prefer at least 50a charger. 
Also, still confused about MSW vs PSW.  Used to be MSW was all you had.  Computers, phones all work on batteries, which are charged from wall outlet and those are all OK.  So far, in 7+ years off grid (on and off), haven't found anything that wouldn't run properly on MSW except one cheap microwave. 
So recommendations on brand and model?  Trying for "cost effective" (e.g. cheap). Need it to separate neutral and ground when plugged into shore power and connect neutral and ground when not plugged into shore power.  This is code, BTW, but most do not do it properly.  Apparently magnum energy does, but they are huge pricey.
2003 Winnebago Journey DL 39WD, Freightliner, Cat 3126E 330HP.  Diesel Pusher.

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Inverter
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2018, 10:01:17 AM »
Xantrex doesn't supply parts (circuit boards) for older models, so any repairs would rely on finding a shop that still had whatever is needed. Odds are slim. What model Freedom is it - there have seen several over the years with that name.

Are you sure the Freedom is causing the GFCI trip?   It might, but there are other possibilities, e.g. the fridge (a common GFCI problem). There should be nothing inherent in the Freedom that ties the neutral and ground together except while inverting, i.e. it should not do this when passing shore power.


MSW works for many things and maybe is fine for what you have, but sooner or later you will probably encounter something that doesn't work.  Some common examples are electric blankets and heating pads, X10 remote power controllers, most digital clocks, some microwaves, some light controls/dimmers, etc.  As the price difference between MSW & PSW falls, many people opt for PSW for maximum flexibility in use.

Converter amps:   The converter has to supply DC amps for the RV systems & lighting as well as charging the batteries, so there is more to it than charging.  The desirable amount for charging depends on the size of your battery bank and battery type.  The battery bank size in amp-hours is referred to as "C" (Capacity), and flooded call batteries can accept a max of about C/4, while gel is C/3 and and AGM  C/2.5 .   If you have a typical 200 AH battery bank and standard flooded batteries, a 50A charger is a good choice.  Add that to your normal house DC power needs, which might be anywhere from 3-20 amps, to determine the total converter amps needed. 
« Last Edit: October 01, 2018, 10:20:22 AM by Gary RV_Wizard »
Gary
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Gary Brinck
Summers: Black Mountain, NC
Home: Ocala National Forest, FL

John From Detroit

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Re: Inverter
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2018, 06:03:00 PM »
Likely is repairable but.. A Progressive Dynamnics 9180 Refurb cost me 236 dollars as I recall (may have been 238)( and the wizard to make it 3 stage is under 30 bucks.

I'm guessing a 9200 Refurb would be just a few dollars more than the 9100.

I went direct to the factory to get mine since it was on my way but they ship nationwide.

I like the programming better on the wiz.
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JDOnTheGo

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Re: Inverter
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2018, 07:28:23 AM »
If you are getting along with modified sine wave that is probably all you need. However; pure sine wave is much "easier" on induction loads (motors). If in the budget, it is probably worth it. I found that my residential refrigerator and microwave were MUCH happier (very subjective, I know) on PSW.  The microwave produced much greater heat for the same amount of cook time, the refrigerator ran much quieter.
JD - Full timer out west
Missy - 1998 MCI 102-EL3 - 1.7kW Solar - 10kWh Lithium
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Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Inverter
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2018, 09:59:14 AM »
You can geta pure sine 1500 watt inverter/charger that conforms to the latest UL 458 standard for under $600, a far cry from what your old Xantrex cots.  Or get a new Xantrex 1800 PSW with 40A charger for $550.


https://invertersrus.com/product/aims-picoglf15w12v120v/
https://invertersrus.com/product/xantrex-8061840/
https://theinverterstore.com/product/1500-watt-pure-sine-inverter-charger-2/
Gary
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Gary Brinck
Summers: Black Mountain, NC
Home: Ocala National Forest, FL

John From Detroit

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Re: Inverter
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2018, 06:36:47 PM »
There is one site that offers the Freedom 2000xc I just installed for 555 plus shipping (I'm not sure I trust that site) Got mine for I think 775 no shipping just tax.

That's what I forgot at General RV. the [email protected]#[email protected]##! Remote.. Oh well Spent enough today.

(Remote is not inluded)
THat is 2000 watts (4000 surge) 80 amp charger. I'm not too thrilled with the A/C  connectors. but they work.
Nothing adds excitement like something that is none of your business
My Home is where I park it.

Sailorkane

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Re: Inverter
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2018, 01:57:18 PM »
Just a final update.  Bought an AIMS 2000W Inverter charger PSW.  It fixed my shore power GFI issue, so my previous Freedom 1500 did indeed bond neutral and ground, causing shore power GFI to pop.  Apparently nothing else in the coach bonded neutral and ground.  Refrig, microwave, outlets are all OK.  I tried the AIMS 1500 but its output on passthru was weak and it popped its own breaker when I ran the microwave.  The 2.0kw AIMS is fine.  About $680 on Amazon.  This version of the AIMS is UL458 compliant, so that's important in selecting any inverter charger.
2003 Winnebago Journey DL 39WD, Freightliner, Cat 3126E 330HP.  Diesel Pusher.

John From Detroit

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Re: Inverter
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2018, 06:23:51 PM »
Yes the Xantrex Freedoms DO bond Ground to chassis. I don't know about neutral but they bond Ground to chassis.
Nothing adds excitement like something that is none of your business
My Home is where I park it.

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Inverter
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2018, 07:38:56 PM »
All chargers are grounded, per the National Electrical Code (NEC).  That means to the RV chassis when installed in an RV.   Likewise, as a primary power source, all inverters bond their neutral to their ground when inverting.   The problem occurs if the inverter continue to bond the output circuit neutral and ground while passing shore power through. That's a no-no in an RV.
Gary
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Gary Brinck
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Home: Ocala National Forest, FL

John From Detroit

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Re: Inverter
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2018, 06:38:24 AM »
Not true. My Prosine 2.0 has the option to ground when inverting.. Or not. You move a screw from one hole to another to do it.   My Freedom does seem to have the chassis of the inverter connected to at least one of the Ground wires on the RV for .. Well just the way it acted when hooking up..  But I do not know if the neutral and ground are bonded.
Nothing adds excitement like something that is none of your business
My Home is where I park it.

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Inverter
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2018, 07:09:55 AM »
Quote
Not true. My Prosine 2.0 has the option to ground when inverting.. Or not. You move a screw from one hole to another to do it. 
Sure, John, but the fact remains that it is required by the electrical code to have them bonded when installed in an RV and acting as the power source for a circuit.  There are only a few instances where an inverter should not have a ground-neutral bond and, to the best of my knowledge, none of them apply here.

Note that the neutral-ground bonding applies to the 120v output circuit and only while inverting. When the same circuit is supplied by pass-thru shore power, it must NOT be bonded in the inverter and instead passes thru the external ground-neutral bonding from the shore cord.  Neither of these has anything to do with the inverter chassis/ground ground - that is an entirely separate matter that just happens to have the word "ground" in common.
Gary
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Gary Brinck
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boatbuilder

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Re: Inverter
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2018, 08:03:31 PM »
Gary is correct on the neutral ground connection. RV's and boats are the same. The neutral and ground must only be tied together at the source of power, be it generator, inverter or shore power connection(done in main shore panel at the campground).
The chassis ground is a safety so that if something inside the inverter fails and touches the case there is a path to ground to hopefully trip a breaker or blow a fuse. On boats the chassis ground must be no smaller than one size smaller than the 12V negative cable. This is to prevent the smaller 110V ground wire trying to handle the large amount of current that the battery can produce.
Charlie