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Author Topic: New Law Lets The Government Shoot Down Drones  (Read 942 times)

Optimistic Paranoid

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New Law Lets The Government Shoot Down Drones
« on: October 05, 2018, 05:45:18 AM »
"The U.S. Senate has passed a bill that will give authorities permission to shoot down drones that are determined to be 'threats'.  The proposed law has sparked an outcry from civil liberty organizations."

https://petapixel.com/2018/10/04/congress-passes-bill-that-lets-the-u-s-govt-shoot-down-drones/
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UTTransplant

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Re: New Law Lets The Government Shoot Down Drones
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2018, 06:37:28 AM »
Having lived in Utah where airborne firefighting efforts have had to be stopped because of drones, I think it is about time! Far too many drone operators violate protected airspace.
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Bill N

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Re: New Law Lets The Government Shoot Down Drones
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2018, 06:58:10 AM »
Having lived in Utah where airborne firefighting efforts have had to be stopped because of drones, I think it is about time! Far too many drone operators violate protected airspace.
Agree 100 percent.  And if this thread lasts more than one or two more responses I will be amazed because it reeks of political discussion and we all know where that leads..................to the dumpster.........lol

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Pugapooh

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Re: New Law Lets The Government Shoot Down Drones
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2018, 07:01:02 AM »
Ban them.  And hover boards.
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Bill N

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Re: New Law Lets The Government Shoot Down Drones
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2018, 07:02:24 AM »
Ban them.  And hover boards.
And social media.

Bill
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NY_Dutch

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Re: New Law Lets The Government Shoot Down Drones
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2018, 07:51:24 AM »
I can see the merit in giving law enforcement agencies the power to act quickly in this age of terrorist and other threats when a suspected or obvious drone threat is imminent. If the drone owner then feels the agency acted improperly it can be fought out in court later. There may not be time beforehand. A drone violating restricted air space might be one example...
« Last Edit: October 05, 2018, 08:02:50 AM by NY_Dutch »
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SargeW

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Re: New Law Lets The Government Shoot Down Drones
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2018, 08:11:27 AM »
I have heard of several reports where fire fighting air ships had to be grounded due to drone activity. I am amazed to think that anyone would think it's OK to fly a drone under those conditions. All owners should be prosecuted if found, IMHO.
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Oldgator73

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Re: New Law Lets The Government Shoot Down Drones
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2018, 08:40:28 AM »
Wouldn’t it suck if your Amazon order being delivered by drone was shot down by an F-15. Or your Pizza Hut order.

We live within a few miles of Dover AFB. Wonder how close proximity to a military installation will affect drone operations.
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JackL

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Re: New Law Lets The Government Shoot Down Drones
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2018, 09:36:31 AM »
I have nothing against it.
 They have banned them from our RV park and I am all for it.
 Nothing like sitting at your camp site enjoying a glass of wine and all of a sudden there is a drone hovering over your head.

 On the other hand maybe there should be some kind of permitting for them - My wife and I recently participated in the Adarondack 90 mile canoe classic and when we came across the ten mile length of Long Lake, there was a drone directly over us (flying right at us , then over us and then coming from behind us ) before taking off   to video other paddlers.
 I don't have a clue who it was, but I am assuming it was from a news station, and I would love to see that video.

 Like everything else, there are good points as well as bad points about them

Jack L

sightseers

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Re: New Law Lets The Government Shoot Down Drones
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2018, 10:02:45 AM »
There was an attempted assassination with a drone carrying a bomb in So. America a couple weeks ago.


BIG JOE

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Re: New Law Lets The Government Shoot Down Drones
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2018, 10:46:14 AM »
I'm surprised one hasn't been in-jested into a jet intake... or gone thru a Prop.... YET. Something needed and needs to be done. With all the fires out here in Cali.. private Drones are an ongoing problem for the firefighters too.
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Roy M

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Re: New Law Lets The Government Shoot Down Drones
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2018, 10:53:28 AM »
Drones certainly have their place for military and civilian use but far too many people have been irresponsible with them and it will only get worse. We have seen firefighting aircraft grounded because of interference, it is only a matter of time before somebody gets killed. Regulations only help after the fact, first the perps must be identified and apprehended.

Oldgator73

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Re: New Law Lets The Government Shoot Down Drones
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2018, 11:45:10 AM »
Do you think the military will use drones to shoot the offending drones down? We could watch a drone dogfight in the skies above our house.
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sightseers

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Re: New Law Lets The Government Shoot Down Drones
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2018, 11:46:53 AM »
You can't ban civilian use drones.

It would kill one of the greatest photographic advancements of the century.




sightseers

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Re: New Law Lets The Government Shoot Down Drones
« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2018, 11:54:17 AM »
Do you think the military will use drones to shoot the offending drones down? We could watch a drone dogfight in the skies above our house.
they'll drop a net on them, .... silent death.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2018, 11:59:49 AM by sightseers »

JoelP

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Re: New Law Lets The Government Shoot Down Drones
« Reply #15 on: October 05, 2018, 01:32:20 PM »
You can't ban civilian use drones.

It would kill one of the greatest photographic advancements of the century.

I have to agree.  I have a drone that I use for photography that produces amazing images.  It is registered with the FAA and bears registration stickers on the drone and battery.  I call ATC whenever I am anywhere within 5 miles of any airport.  I never fly over people who I don't know or public parks where prohibited, but I feel that I have as much right to fly my drone as do private pilots who fly over my home.  The air space belongs to all of us. There are those who say they create noise disturbance, but never complain about motorcycles.  There are those who say they invade privacy, but there has yet to be a drone with a zoom lens that shows much of anything. I can imagine that biggest critics would be quick to welcome my drone if I were engaged in a search and rescue for a missing relative.

That said there are some irresponsible drone owners who are not a respectful and compliant as me.  For this I suggest that all drones that require registration also have a transponder.  I believe that some already have these, but are these are not being used for tracking.  With this, it would be trivial to see who was violating air space being used for firefighting.  My drone has geozones, as do all DJI drones, making it easy for me to see if you are in a forbidden zone.  I cannot fly unless I acknowledge that I am in such a zone and have notified the ATC. If I were in a forbidden zone without notification then I would have no issue with it being "shot down" (easier said than done) or otherwise disabled (easier).

I think much of the disdain for drones comes from a lack of familiarity with the capability of modern hobby drones. Most people I know fly these a relatively low altitudes (<200 ft )and in very solitary places.
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UTTransplant

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Re: New Law Lets The Government Shoot Down Drones
« Reply #16 on: October 05, 2018, 02:57:25 PM »
I think much of the disdain for drones comes from a lack of familiarity with the capability of modern hobby drones. Most people I know fly these a relatively low altitudes (<200 ft )and in very solitary places.
I am actually quite knowledgeable about drones and civil airspace. I worked in both commercial and military aerospace for more than 30 years, the last few years working with military UAVs (drones). I spent more than 10 years working on flight management systems, receiving initial FAA certifications on a number of projects. If the requirements for drones were the same as other commercial aircraft, I would agree with you that they should be permitted. However the requirements are not the same. Training in National Airspace Regulations? Nope. Regular testing of skills and regulatory knowledge? Nope. Insurance requirements? Nope. Drones being flown to get “cool pictures” have harassed endangered animals and birds away from their young. They have grounded airborne fire fighting. We had one hang out in our campsite, flying around us, hovering just above our group, and generally being a pain in he ass. And yes, they have hit human flown aircraft. Until all, not some, drone operators have training and knowledge a human pilot gets, they should be severely restricted.
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Larry N.

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Re: New Law Lets The Government Shoot Down Drones
« Reply #17 on: October 05, 2018, 08:46:03 PM »
Quote
For this I suggest that all drones that require registration also have a transponder.

Do they make transponders that light and small? Can they carry the antenna, also? Obviously some of the larger ones can, but last I heard (I've not checked recently) registration was required for any unit much over half a pound, and those smaller ones don't have much power for carrying anything but themselves.

Don't get me wrong, I think there is way too much abuse of drone flying, even though it's far from all drone operators doing it, but I'm thinking practical. So it would have to be size/power related, as well.
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Hanr3

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Re: New Law Lets The Government Shoot Down Drones
« Reply #18 on: October 05, 2018, 09:43:12 PM »
Our city has a ban on remote flying vehicles long before drones were invented. The ban was implemented for Cox airplanes and helicopters. We have special "airports" for those activities, most owned by clubs.
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NY_Dutch

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Re: New Law Lets The Government Shoot Down Drones
« Reply #19 on: October 05, 2018, 10:02:43 PM »
Do they make transponders that light and small? Can they carry the antenna, also? Obviously some of the larger ones can, but last I heard (I've not checked recently) registration was required for any unit much over half a pound, and those smaller ones don't have much power for carrying anything but themselves.

Don't get me wrong, I think there is way too much abuse of drone flying, even though it's far from all drone operators doing it, but I'm thinking practical. So it would have to be size/power related, as well.

How about 20 grams?  ;)


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Arch Hoagland

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Re: New Law Lets The Government Shoot Down Drones
« Reply #20 on: October 06, 2018, 12:02:23 AM »
I'd be curious to know how they are going to shoot it down. 
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Rene T

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Re: New Law Lets The Government Shoot Down Drones
« Reply #21 on: October 06, 2018, 05:06:09 AM »
I'd be curious to know how they are going to shoot it down.

How else:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M101_howitzer

They had what we called a beehive round. It had 1000's of small little darts inside the round and you'd set the timer to go off at a predetermined time.
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Oldgator73

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Re: New Law Lets The Government Shoot Down Drones
« Reply #22 on: October 06, 2018, 06:43:16 AM »
I'd be curious to know how they are going to shoot it down.

Probably scramble F-15’s on them or maybe A-10 Warthogs.
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NY_Dutch

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Re: New Law Lets The Government Shoot Down Drones
« Reply #23 on: October 06, 2018, 07:15:30 AM »
I'd be curious to know how they are going to shoot it down. 
« Last Edit: October 06, 2018, 07:18:35 AM by NY_Dutch »
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Larry N.

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Re: New Law Lets The Government Shoot Down Drones
« Reply #24 on: October 06, 2018, 07:30:54 AM »
How about 20 grams?  ;)


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And how heavy is the battery that is needed to provide the 30 watts it needs, in addition to that needed to fly? On a unit that weighs less than a pound, or even a couple of pounds?

A DJI is much bigger and heavier and maybe it has the power (both battery and motor) available to carry that battery too, but those small ones don't. For example, this Parrot model weighs 500 grams (about 1.6 lbs). How do you get 30 watts of additional battery on it for "Up to 25 min?" And where does the motor power come from to carry that extra weight, especially at 5,000 feet elevation or more (I live at 5230 feet)?
« Last Edit: October 06, 2018, 07:33:54 AM by Larry N. »
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Bill N

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Re: New Law Lets The Government Shoot Down Drones
« Reply #25 on: October 06, 2018, 07:31:48 AM »
You can't ban civilian use drones.

It would kill one of the greatest photographic advancements of the century.
No you will never kill it but you must regulate it just as the FAA regulates airplane flights and, yes, I do mean filing a flight plan even if it means just for a local area.  Avoidance of conflicts in the air is a must.

Bill
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NY_Dutch

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Re: New Law Lets The Government Shoot Down Drones
« Reply #26 on: October 06, 2018, 07:40:38 AM »
And how heavy is the battery that is needed to provide the 30 watts it needs, in addition to that needed to fly? On a unit that weighs less than a pound, or even a couple of pounds?

A DJI is much bigger and heavier and maybe it has the power (both battery and motor) available to carry that battery too, but those small ones don't. For example, this Parrot model weighs 500 grams (about 1.6 lbs). How do you get 30 watts of additional battery on it for "Up to 25 min?" And where does the motor power come from to carry that extra weight, especially at 5,000 feet elevation or more (I live at 5230 feet)?

I have no idea of the weight limits of the available personal use drones. I just looked for the lightest transponder I could find with a quick search.
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Larry N.

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Re: New Law Lets The Government Shoot Down Drones
« Reply #27 on: October 06, 2018, 07:46:34 AM »
No you will never kill it but you must regulate it just as the FAA regulates airplane flights and, yes, I do mean filing a flight plan even if it means just for a local area.  Avoidance of conflicts in the air is a must.

Bill
Bill,
I hope you (and many others) understand that a flight plan (unless under instrument flight rules, or IFR) doesn't get sent to air traffic control. It's sole purpose is to get the search folks out for you if you are more than 30 minutes overdue (that is, you don't close your flight plan by then).

Quote
just as the FAA regulates airplane flights
Not all flights are "regulated" in the sense you seem to mean, other than the need to follow specific rules (distance from structures, clearance from clouds, etc.), that is, unless you are in certain airspace or flying under IFR. So the FAA/ATC (Air Traffic Control) will never know about these flights. And some rules are already in place, but many "drone operators" ignore those rules, or some don't even know about them.

If you add actual contact with ATC (as it sounds to me) then we'd suddenly need a lot more ATC facilities and controllers. And even the FAA's newer radar facilities still have their capacity limitations -- I don't know how much extra traffic it would be, but I could see the possibility of a lot, depending on what actual rules were adopted.

It's not as simple as it sounds to some folks.
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NY_Dutch

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Re: New Law Lets The Government Shoot Down Drones
« Reply #28 on: October 06, 2018, 07:52:33 AM »
Like many issues, including RV parks, the key to success is not as much in the rules as it is in the enforcement of the rules. Fear of getting caught is a powerful deterrent...
Dutch
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xrated

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Re: New Law Lets The Government Shoot Down Drones
« Reply #29 on: October 06, 2018, 07:55:23 AM »
Drones are basically no different than remote control model airplanes, and as such, are governed under those same "hobby" rules.  Once you cross over hobby line and into flying for hire......real estate, photography, news media, etc, there are more stringent rules in place.  And as with any other set of laws or regulations, some folks choose to abide by them and some don't........highway speeds for example!

And speaking of RV parks, one of the campgrounds that we like in Chattanooga is very scenic and I called ahead to see if they would allow me to bring my drone and do a short flight just to capture the beauty of their campground.  They have an area towards the back of the CG that really does not have camping spaces and only a building that is used for meetings/conferences/family gatherings and such.  I told them that I would like to take the drone back there, launch it up a and basically do a 360 view of the campground and surrounding areas, and stay away from any of the campsites.  They had zero issues with me doing that, and I was not within a 5 mile radius of an airport.  We ended up cancelling the reservation and staying in another location that was better suited to our activities while we were in the area, but hopefully, we will go back there again.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2018, 08:00:44 AM by xrated »
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