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Author Topic: Converting RJ-11 phone line to RJ-45 ethernet (stick house)  (Read 340 times)

scottydl

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Converting RJ-11 phone line to RJ-45 ethernet (stick house)
« on: October 11, 2018, 05:16:18 PM »
Does anyone have specific knowledge of converting phone wiring (RJ-11) to ethernet (RJ-45) for our S&B residence? This would be something I want to do from the phone company's junction box outside the house, running inside. We haven't had landline phone service in the house since we have lived here (15 years), and the incoming RJ-11 only runs to the back of the DSL wireless router (provided by our ISP). The specific Netgear model we have is junk, always dropping signal and log-jamming our wireless service. It was replaced once already, with only temporary improvement.

I bought a cheap-but-well-rated replacement router (tp-link brand from Amazon), but discovered that it requires RJ-45 ethernet input and not RJ-11... probably like any other modern router. My initial hopes of an easy adapter or quick wiring switchover doesn't look to be the case. I've searched for Youtube videos on the topic, but haven't found a well-produced (i.e. easy to follow) one yet. I figured it would make sense to wire the RJ-45 in from the get-go (exterior phone junction box) if that's even possible, and remove the RJ-11 completely.

Anyone with experience or pointers?
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HappyWanderer

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Re: Converting RJ-11 phone line to RJ-45 ethernet (stick house)
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2018, 05:26:19 PM »
Is this DSL service or something else?
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Re: Converting RJ-11 phone line to RJ-45 ethernet (stick house)
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2018, 05:31:13 PM »
RJ 11 is 4 wire (2 used) RJ 45 is I think 6 or 8.. but only 4 are used. (8 wire only 4 used) the other 4 are ground and act like an interference shield

So you can covert if the wires are not stapled anywhere by using the existing wire as a "Fish line" to "Fish" the new wire through. But that is about the only way.

now there are "Coverter' Devices that claim to be able to send data over rj11 cable but... Well.. YOu will either lose bandwith or gain interference.
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Willandgiselarv

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Re: Converting RJ-11 phone line to RJ-45 ethernet (stick house)
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2018, 05:41:27 PM »
Are you saying that your old router terminated the dsl connection which consisted of an rj11 plug?
Or was your dsl service terminated to a "dsl modem" and to your router? What is the model of your cheap netgear...thanks
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xrated

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Re: Converting RJ-11 phone line to RJ-45 ethernet (stick house)
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2018, 06:39:43 PM »
Yep, RJ-11 = 4 wires.  RJ-45 = 8 wires
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HappyWanderer

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Re: Converting RJ-11 phone line to RJ-45 ethernet (stick house)
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2018, 07:42:44 PM »
Yep, RJ-11 = 4 wires.  RJ-45 = 8 wires

Nope. RJ11 = 2 wires. RJ14 = 4 wires. Technically, 4P2C and 4P4C.
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Re: Converting RJ-11 phone line to RJ-45 ethernet (stick house)
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2018, 07:51:54 PM »
Nope. RJ11 = 2 wires. RJ14 = 4 wires. Technically, 4P2C and 4P4C.

I wasn't talking about how many of the wires were actually used, I'm talking about the number of wires in the cable that connects to the RJ-11 and the RJ-45.  And technically, the RJ-11 has 6 terminals and the RJ-45 has 8
« Last Edit: October 11, 2018, 07:54:20 PM by xrated »
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Lou Schneider

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Re: Converting RJ-11 phone line to RJ-45 ethernet (stick house)
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2018, 08:28:12 PM »
Scott, I don't think it will work.  RJ11 wire is two twisted pair Category 1, good for up to 1 MHz but not designed for data where you need constant impedance to avoid "echoes" reflecting back and corrupting the data.

Cat 5 is designed for 100 MHz data, Cat 5e is good for 1 GHz.  Cat 5 uses precisely twisted pairs so the pulses put into one end go straight out the other end without reflecting back or crosstalking into other pairs.  Even something as small as untwisting too much of the twisted pair at a connector will degrade Cat5 wiring.

If you want to try it anyway by scabbing RJ45 connectors on the end of the phone cables, Cat 5 data is sent on the RJ45 orange and green pairs. The 568B standard is most common where both ends of the cable are wired the same.  Pins 1 and 2 for the first pair and 3 and 6 for the second pair.  Note that the second pair is not on adjacent pins.  The remaining connector pins and twisted pairs are NOT used unless you're doing something special like running video or Power Over Ethernet.
 
http://wiringwizard.com/primer/cables/cat5/default.htm

« Last Edit: October 11, 2018, 09:15:33 PM by Lou Schneider »

scottydl

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Re: Converting RJ-11 phone line to RJ-45 ethernet (stick house)
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2018, 08:58:05 PM »
Thanks Lou... maybe that's what I'll have to try. All I know is that the line coming into the house, and connecting to the DSL modem/router (one unit) appears to be a phone line and has an RJ-11 plug. I thought maybe I could backtrack to the outside junction box (which I assume would be set up for higher bandwidth ethernet/data use) and properly wire in one end of the 50' RJ-45 cable I have.

Are you saying that your old router terminated the dsl connection which consisted of an rj11 plug?
Or was your dsl service terminated to a "dsl modem" and to your router? What is the model of your cheap netgear...thanks

Honestly, I'm not sure what you're asking. But take a look at the router specs/photos online... it's a Netgear D2200D-1FRNS.
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HappyWanderer

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Re: Converting RJ-11 phone line to RJ-45 ethernet (stick house)
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2018, 09:13:47 PM »
On the back of the unit, there should be a port labeled DSL. That's where the phone line plugs in.
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Re: Converting RJ-11 phone line to RJ-45 ethernet (stick house)
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2018, 09:18:05 PM »
Thanks Lou... maybe that's what I'll have to try. All I know is that the line coming into the house, and connecting to the DSL modem/router (one unit) appears to be a phone line and has an RJ-11 plug. I thought maybe I could backtrack to the outside junction box (which I assume would be set up for higher bandwidth ethernet/data use) and properly wire in one end of the 50' RJ-45 cable I have.

No, actually it's essentially the same kind of cable all the way back to the phone company's central office.  They made it work for DSL by restricting the audio bandwidth slightly and putting a DSL carrier on top of the audio (the hissing sound you hear without a filter on the DSL line).  This is in the range of a few KHz, not the tens of MegaHertz required for Cat5.

Willandgiselarv

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Re: Converting RJ-11 phone line to RJ-45 ethernet (stick house)
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2018, 09:35:24 PM »
Thanks Lou... maybe that's what I'll have to try. All I know is that the line coming into the house, and connecting to the DSL modem/router (one unit) appears to be a phone line and has an RJ-11 plug. I thought maybe I could backtrack to the outside junction box (which I assume would be set up for higher bandwidth ethernet/data use) and properly wire in one end of the 50' RJ-45 cable I have.

Honestly, I'm not sure what you're asking. But take a look at the router specs/photos online... it's a Netgear D2200D-1FRNS.
The old router you have is a combo adsl/router combo that's why you have a dsl input (rj11) the router you have will just have the rj45 connector. The rj45 connector usually will come off the back of a dsl modem that the provider supplied.
There is a cross over converter you can get that just crosses the transmit and receive pair but I don't think that will work because it has to convert the dsl protocol which is usually atm to Ethernet.
See if you can use your old router as a dsl modem, using it as a bridge/converter then use port 1 of rj45 to your new router.
The other option is get a device with the same features as your old router, or ask your service provider for a modem which I'm sure comes with rental or look on craigslist...it will be cheap.
I would play with your old router as a bridge.
Sorry for long answer.
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Re: Converting RJ-11 phone line to RJ-45 ethernet (stick house)
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2018, 09:46:39 PM »
Sorry, I read the model of the old unit as being the new one.

The old was a router with a built-in DSL modem. The new one is just a router, no modem.

The previous post is spot on. Sometimes these devices play together nicely, sometimes not so much.
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8Muddypaws

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Re: Converting RJ-11 phone line to RJ-45 ethernet (stick house)
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2018, 10:57:17 PM »
I'm thinking a simple powerline adapter might be a better solution.  Or maybe a wireless mesh network.
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scottydl

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Re: Converting RJ-11 phone line to RJ-45 ethernet (stick house)
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2018, 07:41:20 AM »
No, actually it's essentially the same kind of cable all the way back to the phone company's central office.  They made it work for DSL by restricting the audio bandwidth slightly and putting a DSL carrier on top of the audio

Alrighty then. I knew I would learn something from everyone here. ;)

See if you can use your old router as a dsl modem, using it as a bridge/converter then use port 1 of rj45 to your new router.

I'm glad you mentioned this... I considered it at one time and needed that reminder as a possibility.

Yes this Netgear (current) device came from the provider, Frontier. As did the last one, and I don't think they offer anything else unless the customer is on a fiber-optic service (which I'm not). They are painful to deal with, and even simple problems require way longer on the phone (with someone in India) than I want to spend.

In my rural area we have no other broadband options, but there IS a new local company that is about to start laying down new line and offering service in the next few months. I'll be jumping ship more than likely and giving them a try... hopefully I can get a new installation of proper cable when we switch over.
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SeilerBird

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Re: Converting RJ-11 phone line to RJ-45 ethernet (stick house)
« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2018, 07:48:55 AM »
Scott - did you know that Google's Fi network costs $60 a month unlimited? All you need is a Google phone.

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Re: Converting RJ-11 phone line to RJ-45 ethernet (stick house)
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2018, 09:45:21 AM »
Nope. RJ11 = 2 wires. RJ14 = 4 wires. Technically, 4P2C and 4P4C.

Though I have seen short RJ-11 cables that were two wires for single line phones the specification is 4 wire and that is either 2 phone lines or phone plus power (Princess phone for example with lighted dials used the other 2 wires for power till they started using LED's and line power)  On RJ45 though only 4 wires carry data (TD/Ground and RD/Ground) the other 4 wires ARE USED as "Shields" against noise (All ground) they are very important.
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Re: Converting RJ-11 phone line to RJ-45 ethernet (stick house)
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2018, 11:35:27 AM »
^ Not to derail the topic any further, but the above information is simply not correct.

The RJ standards are clearly defined, and are related to the configuration of their the jack regardless of the cable being used.

The additional pairs in CAT5 cable are not shields, and certainly aren't grounds. Their primary use is Power over Ethernet (PoE) for various IP devices.
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Re: Converting RJ-11 phone line to RJ-45 ethernet (stick house)
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2018, 06:02:49 PM »
True they are not "Shields" in the literal sense. but they are the other half of a balanced pair and are. in most systems. grounded at least at one end.  This makes them act just like a shield...  NOTE: In the past I've done a lot of Audio work and still do RF work and teh concept of balanced and unbalanced (Coax. with one wire inside another is shielded and is unbalanced. "Twisted pair" is not shielded by the twist makes it act the same)

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Re: Converting RJ-11 phone line to RJ-45 ethernet (stick house)
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2018, 06:36:28 PM »
The standard specifically calls for pairs to not be grounded, but this conversation isn't helping the OP at all. I'm out..
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