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Author Topic: Dodge EcoDiesel  (Read 639 times)

aguablanco

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Dodge EcoDiesel
« on: October 16, 2018, 10:28:16 PM »
I tow a 24', 6000# wet, trailer with a 2012 Silverado 1500 with the 5.3 engine. While it does OK, I am considering moving to a diesel, specifically the Dodge EcoDiesel. My concern is whether or not that is enough engine. I really like the specs on the Eco but I want to be sure I will get enough extra power by trading up. If anyone has some first, or second, hand info on this engine I would greatly appreciate you passing it on. Of course my second choices are Chevy or Dodge 3/4 ton diesels. I have no intention of buying a bigger trailer so that is not a future concern.  Thanks in advance.
RichH
2017 Ram 1500 Eco Diesel
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lynnmor

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Re: Dodge EcoDiesel
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2018, 01:22:47 AM »
Going down from 315 HP to 240 HP doesn't sound like a good idea if you care at all about performance.  These baby diesels are for fuel mileage, and they do great at that.

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Dodge EcoDiesel
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2018, 07:42:47 AM »
Agree with lynnmor.   Horsepower is horsepower and that is what does the work. Most diesel engines produce their horsepower at lower rpms and may feel more responsive from a standing start,  but rpms aside, 240 hp is a lot less than 315.  Diesels are also excellent at extracting power from a gallon of fuel, so the mpg is usually better as well (especially under heavy loads).
Gary
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jubileee

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Re: Dodge EcoDiesel
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2018, 11:51:02 AM »
As a lifelong trucker, I never looked at horsepower ratings in power trains, but concentrated on torque.
The torque rating of 335 lbs/ft @ 4000 rpm on the OPís current 5.3 vs. the torque rating of 420 lbs/ft @ 2000 rpm for the dodge eco diesel suggest that the Dodge will run off and hide from the Chevy and probably get 50% better fuel mileage doing it.

Lowell

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Re: Dodge EcoDiesel
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2018, 01:48:45 PM »
If he can forgo a diesel, the 5.7 hemi will do the job and get pretty good fuel economy too.
Lowell

2005 Cherokee28A TT
pulled by 2009 Dodge 1500 Crew Cab 4X4
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grashley

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Re: Dodge EcoDiesel
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2018, 06:32:27 PM »
Very Interesting Thread!!

Would a dealer allow you to bring the TT to the dealership and "test tow" with the EcoDiesel?
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Lowell

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Re: Dodge EcoDiesel
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2018, 06:33:53 PM »
Very Interesting Thread!!

Would a dealer allow you to bring the TT to the dealership and "test tow" with the EcoDiesel?

That's a great idea!
Lowell

2005 Cherokee28A TT
pulled by 2009 Dodge 1500 Crew Cab 4X4
KF7YET

Tempe, Arizona

lynnmor

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Re: Dodge EcoDiesel
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2018, 06:57:15 PM »
As a lifelong trucker, I never looked at horsepower ratings in power trains, but concentrated on torque.
The torque rating of 335 lbs/ft @ 4000 rpm on the OPís current 5.3 vs. the torque rating of 420 lbs/ft @ 2000 rpm for the dodge eco diesel suggest that the Dodge will run off and hide from the Chevy and probably get 50% better fuel mileage doing it.

I looked up the 1/4 mile times for both.
Ecodiesel = 16.7 @ 81.8 MPH
2012 5.3 = 14.5 @ 93.0 MPH

Yes, the Chevy ran off and hid from the wimp.  I fully expect to now hear about racing ain't the same as towing, but horsepower is horsepower whatever you are doing with it.

Memtb

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Re: Dodge EcoDiesel
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2018, 07:47:53 AM »
   Now put about 6000 pounds of trailer behind both, and run the 1/4 mile again....up a 7% grade. The results may be different.
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lynnmor

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Re: Dodge EcoDiesel
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2018, 08:51:48 AM »
Nope, no difference, horsepower is horsepower.  That is why I mentioned that I fully expect to hear the racing comments in a failed effort to head off that aspect.

Roy M

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Re: Dodge EcoDiesel
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2018, 10:31:49 AM »
Under those conditions the high revving high horsepower 5.3 will fall flat on it's face. That is fine for racing but we need TORQUE for towing, that is what gets the wheels turning.

Lowell

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Re: Dodge EcoDiesel
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2018, 12:53:19 PM »
Under those conditions the high revving high horsepower 5.3 will fall flat on it's face. That is fine for racing but we need TORQUE for towing, that is what gets the wheels turning.

I agree that the tow vehicle with the higher torque would do better towing.  If you don't think so, hook up a high HP Mustang to a low HP farm tractor and see who moves who.
Lowell

2005 Cherokee28A TT
pulled by 2009 Dodge 1500 Crew Cab 4X4
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Tempe, Arizona

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Dodge EcoDiesel
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2018, 01:21:19 PM »
I don't want to get into a torque vs HP debate, but you can't have one without the other.  HP = Torque x rpm/5252, so more torque always yields more HP as well.

The difference between that tractor and the Mustang isn't torque vs HP - it is the RPMs required to reach max rated HP.  Not to mention the rear axle gearing, the tire contact patch, and the tire tread (traction vs highway).
Gary
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Summers: Black Mountain, NC
Home: Ocala National Forest, FL

lynnmor

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Re: Dodge EcoDiesel
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2018, 01:34:50 PM »
I knew better that toss out the horsepower ratings, but I did it anyway.  Folks just want to believe that the torque numbers are big and that is what matters. 

Here is a video and the towing results comparing two trucks with almost identical torque numbers.  The Ecodiesel was much slower due to much lower horsepower.  https://www.tfltruck.com/2015/03/2015-ram-1500-ecodiesel-ike-gauntlet-extreme-towing-video/

Lowell

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Re: Dodge EcoDiesel
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2018, 01:51:22 PM »
The diesel was a bit slower, not a lot, and got 6.5 mpg compared to the other trucks 4 mpg climbing the grade.   If a minute of two makes that much difference to you on a long grade like that, I guess you buy the faster one.
Lowell

2005 Cherokee28A TT
pulled by 2009 Dodge 1500 Crew Cab 4X4
KF7YET

Tempe, Arizona

Lou Schneider

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Re: Dodge EcoDiesel
« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2018, 02:52:58 PM »
The thing that makes a diesel feel like it has more power than a gas engine is the way the accelerator pedal is connected to the engine.

In a gas engine, the accelerator position directly determines the engine performance.  It regulates the amount of air admitted to the engine, the computer (or the carburetor in older engines) then admits the proper amount of fuel to keep the air to fuel ratio constant.

To get more power, you have to admit more air, i.e. press harder on the accelerator.  Less power means easing off on the gas pedal.

A diesel engine works differently.  Here the air intake remains wide open all the time, and a governor mechanism regulates how much fuel goes into the engine.  If the engine speed slows below the governor setting, it adds more fuel into the engine.  If the engine speed exceeds the setting, the governor reduces the fuel.

The accelerator in a diesel engine merely sets the RPM the engine will run at, while the governor controls the fuel flow.  This means, within limits, the actual engine output works independently of the accelerator position.  This gives the diesel it's reputation for pulling power, since you don't have to floor the accelerator to get more power out of a diesel engine or ease off on the throttle when there's less load.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2018, 02:58:34 PM by Lou Schneider »

aguablanco

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Re: Dodge EcoDiesel
« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2018, 05:46:22 PM »
I appreciate this debate, it is informative. Since I only two about 5-6 K per year the EcoDiesel may well work for me. I would certainly appreciate the fuel economy.
I was always under the impression that torque was more of a power factor than HP under a load so I am hoping that someone with this engine can provide real life data.
Richh
2017 Ram 1500 Eco Diesel
2010 Freedom Spirit 24 FBSL
Curt 10K WDH
Never underestimate the power of very stupid people in large groups.

Lou Schneider

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Re: Dodge EcoDiesel
« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2018, 06:05:57 PM »
At low to mid RPMs, the 5.3 Hemi and the 3.0 EcoDiesel are pretty evenly matched. 

3.0 EcoDiesel Peak Horespower = 240 HP @ 3,600 RPM
5.7 Hemi Peak Horsepower       = 395 HP @ 5,600 RPM

3.0 EcoDiesel Peak Tporque = 420 lb/ft @ 2,000 RPM
5.7 Hemi Peak Torque         = 410 lb/ft @ 3,950 RPM

3.0 EcoDiesel Redline  = 4,800 RPM (upshift @ 4000 RPM Wide Open Throttle)
5.7 Hemi Redline        = 5,800 RPM

This isn't a low revving diesel like the ones you'll find in commercial trucks or in a diesel pusher.

Looking at the numbers, both engines have about equal torque, but the 5.7 Hemi has to turn twice as fast to achieve it.  Since Horsepower = Torque x RPM x 5252, the Hemi makes twice as much horsepower at it's torque peak as the EcoDiesel.

Looking at the torque vs. horsepower charts, the two engines have about the same amount of pulling power up to their midrange RPMs.  The 5.7 Hemi develops the same amount of pulling power at 2500 RPM (43% of it's 5,800 RPM redline) as the 3.0 EcoDiesel does at it's 2000 RPM torque peak (42% of it's 4800 RPM redline).  Above these speeds the 5.7 Hemi is the clear leader with it's torque continuing to increase up to 3,950 RPM while the EcoDiesel's torque falls off above 2,000 RPM.

In other words, below 2,000 RPM for the EcoDiesel or 2,500 RPM for the Hemi, the two engines will pull about the same.  Above that point the EcoDiesel's power will tend to level out while the Hemi continues increasing torque up to 3,950 RPM.

Since it takes more fuel to create more power, or less fuel to create less power, I suspect the Hemi will closely match the EcoDiesel's mileage unless you ask the Hemi for more power.  If you do, the Hemi's MPGs will go down accordingly.

Diesel fuel does have an inherent MPG advantage over gasoline due to it's greater BTU energy per gallon.  But diesel now costs more per gallon than unleaded gas, which may negate part of it's cost advantage.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2018, 06:55:14 PM by Lou Schneider »

Chakara

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Re: Dodge EcoDiesel
« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2018, 08:57:26 PM »
  Everything I have seen on the baby diesels implies to me it is a way the truck manufacturers are complying with the EPA regulations and not so much consumer demand.   In the half ton space I'd stick with a gas burner for TCO vs performance reasons.

-Chak
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solarman

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Re: Dodge EcoDiesel
« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2018, 12:23:02 PM »
  Everything I have seen on the baby diesels implies to me it is a way the truck manufacturers are complying with the EPA regulations and not so much consumer demand.   In the half ton space I'd stick with a gas burner for TCO vs performance reasons.

-Chak

I would agree with you, unless this is a grocery getter then stick with gas for 1/2 ton.

when moving up to a big 6.7L diesel the difference between gas and diesel is staggering. having towed with a big diesel
I would not go back to a gasser..

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Broke Boater

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Re: Dodge EcoDiesel
« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2018, 03:13:59 PM »
Horsepower is Horsepower, that's funny, and so wrong in this situation. They are so different and not what someone should be lookin at. Horsepower is the measurement of power. Torque is the measurement of ability to work.  I owned a 5.3 gm, and they went to that in the light truck, suv rigs. To make up the difference in the 5.7 ci advantage, they profiled the cam to reach peak numbers at a higher rpm, not a good thing for a tow vehicle. So with the thinking that a 350hp small block gasser will have the same ability to work as a 350hp diesel, horsepower to horsepower right??,,no,,,very wrong. Because that 350hp diesel is going to have around 800+ lbs of torque, no way around it.  When you bypass looking at the torque numbers, transmission gear ratios, ring gear ratios and think just a higher hp rating will deliver the torque needed to pull a RV, your are going to be sadly disappointed, unless your always on flat ground. I have a buddy that bought a Ram eco diesel, he pulls a 6000lb boat from coastal ports in northern Cali to southern Ore. No flat ground there, he gets 14mpg towing. Has not had any issues, loves the truck. Is a ecodiesel, any brand, my preferred choice for a tow vehicle, no, not by a long shot. Most definitely no small block gasser's either. 6000lb is not a lot to pull, and a small block gasser will do it easily, I did it for years with a stock 5.7 and a stock 5.3 gm trucks. Also pulled a 4 horse with a bunkhouse sleeping quarters with a 7.4 gasser one ton, it did it, but I dreaded the grades. Never will go back to gas,,,gregg
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aguablanco

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Re: Dodge EcoDiesel
« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2018, 11:49:23 PM »
Well, here's the update.I did purchase the Ecodiesel. As I said earlier I tow 5-6k per year and I didn't want a 3/4 ton, or bigger, for a daily driver. While I wasn't towing today I got 23 mpg going up to 7000' from 1400'. Over on the Ram1500diesel forum they all extol the virtues of this set up. I really appreciate conversation that has taken place here. My thanks to everyone that contributed. I won't be towing for a couple of months but when I do I will start a thread to share my observations. Again, thanks for the info, it really helped.
RichH
2017 Ram 1500 Eco Diesel
2010 Freedom Spirit 24 FBSL
Curt 10K WDH
Never underestimate the power of very stupid people in large groups.

sightseers

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Re: Dodge EcoDiesel
« Reply #22 on: October 24, 2018, 08:35:44 AM »
Nope, no difference, horsepower is horsepower.  That is why I mentioned that I fully expect to hear the racing comments in a failed effort to head off that aspect.

So,  then a 300 hp Subaru engine should pull a heavy trailer up a hill as well as a 300 hp Cummins does?.......(right.... :P)
« Last Edit: October 24, 2018, 08:45:27 AM by sightseers »

Ernie n Tara

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Re: Dodge EcoDiesel
« Reply #23 on: October 24, 2018, 09:38:27 AM »
YES! Given the correct gearing (probably an impractical setup). The diesel, by my observation yesterday, will shift five or six times between 0 and 40 mph; the Subaru will be doing well over 100 mph in fourth. It's fairly simple math!.

Ernie
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sightseers

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Re: Dodge EcoDiesel
« Reply #24 on: October 24, 2018, 11:08:28 AM »
I wonder why they ever put those big ol' stinky diesel motors in all the Class A's .... ;)

So, you are saying they could put a 300 hp Subaru 2.5 liter 4 cylinder engine in a motorhome..if they had enough gears ?

Then why don't they just use a CVT transmission...  they have an infinite number of gears ?   


My last 54k Freightliner truck had a 300hp Cummins had 10 gears,  and sometimes wished I had more.


In a 1/4 mile race...
'Torque' will determine the time it takes to go that distance.   'Horse Power' will determine the speed you will be going. 

   
« Last Edit: October 25, 2018, 08:48:18 AM by sightseers »

lynnmor

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Re: Dodge EcoDiesel
« Reply #25 on: October 25, 2018, 02:24:59 AM »



My last 54k Freightliner truck had a 300hp Cummins had 10 gears,  and sometimes wished I had more.


In a 1/4 race...
'Torque' will determine the time it takes to go that distance.   'Horse Power' will determine the speed you will be going. 


You should have had a higher horsepower Cummins, 300 was not enough.

If only those drag racers would get a clue and run high torque steam engines from the 1800's since time is everything.
   

Oldgator73

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Re: Dodge EcoDiesel
« Reply #26 on: October 25, 2018, 08:12:36 AM »
Saw a Tesla P100D on YouTube kickin everybodyís booty on the dragstrip. Ran 10.8, 120+. Driver was told if he ran faster than 11.49 he had to wear a fire jacket. Driver said the car didnít carry any gas.

https://youtu.be/KJuQyYYRoqw
« Last Edit: October 25, 2018, 08:14:28 AM by Oldgator73 »
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sightseers

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Re: Dodge EcoDiesel
« Reply #27 on: October 25, 2018, 08:44:28 AM »
NHRA says if you go faster than 150 mph. you also need to have a parachute on the car.