When will there be an electric RV?

Larry N. said:

Another thing I saw no comment on: An RV needs range between charges, and for many folks 300 miles won't do the job, so you'd either need charging stations every 200-300 miles (if the range were that good), or a much longer range. And those stations need to be in all directions (as diesel/gas stations are), since most RVers won't take kindly to being limited to a few places they can go, and mostly nearby.

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They already have them, at least for cars. In 30 minutes at a Tesla Supercharger, you can get around 200 mile range (in a car that is). They are 400 VDC at 250 amps.  That is 100,000 watts!!!

But after that 30 minutes, the BMS (Battery Management System) must reduce the current to the batteries so then it takes more time. But this would be offset in an RV by having  a lot more batteries and perhaps not having to lower the charging current as much.

I think the biggest problem in an E-RV is the expense of all the batteries as well as the weight. With the number of Superchargers already in the USA that is not much of an issue. See the Supercharger map down the page here.

And if you're have the time, you can charge (both my Tesla as well as my E-bikes) from 120 VAC or 240 VAC.

Level one charging is 120 VAC (takes days for my Tesla to charge fully).
Level two charging (often free on the road) is 240 VAC (takes several hours to fully charge my Tesla).
Level Three charging is 400 VDC at 250 amps (takes minutes to fully charge my Tesla).

Explaining my Zero  E-bikes are a bit  more complicated as they have  an on-board charger, but as many as four external chargers (almost a KW each of DC output) can be added.  Any voltage from 90 VAC to 250 VAC with them.  So these can be used with level One and Two charging above, but not the SuperCharger. More voltages does NOT give better charge times as these are designed to lower the current as the voltage increases. Less heat at a higher voltage as there is  then less current draw. But little, if any difference in charge times.

And I hear every Wall*Mart will soon have chargers. The E-Vehicles are already very practical to go just about anywhere.

For me they are more practical than ICE (internal Combustion Engine) vehicles. No oil to check, no gas stations to stop at. I normally charge at home, either here in Auburn, or at my other homes in Reno, NV. My Tesla as well as one of my E-bikes can make it all the way on a single charge between the houses. The Tesla can easily do the round trip (100 miles each way)  with some charge left over. My best E-bike has about half that range.

-Don-  Auburn, CA

DonTom said:

They already have them, at least for cars. In 30 minutes at a Tesla Supercharger, you can get around 200 mile range (in a car that is). They are 400 VDC at 250 amps.  That is 100,000 watts!!!

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OK, let's assume an RV needs four times as much battery capacity as a Tesla to go that same 200 miles.  That makes sense as a rough estimate since a typical Class A motorhome uses about four times as much gas as a midsize car (8 mpg vs 32 MPG).

The largest RV power source in an RV park is 240 volts at 50 amps.  Using every bit of power you can pull out of that outlet it will take 33 hours to replace the 400,000 watt/hours drained out of the battery.  Limit the draw from that 50 amp outlet to it's 80% continuous power rating and it will take 41 hours to recharge that RV.  That's after a 3 1/2 hour freeway run.

If you want power to use inside the RV while it's charging, reduce the charging rate and extend the charging time accordingly.

Doesn't sound too practical without a major rebuilding of the RV park infrastructure.

Lou Schneider said:

Those solar panels on the Tesla charging stations are mostly for show.  Almost all of the charging power comes from the grid.

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Sure, it would take a lot of solar for 100,000 watt SuperChargers!

But there are several level two chargers (240 VAC) that are 100% solar and batteries. One is the free charger at Boreal Ski Resort at Donner Summit.

Another is from a buddy of mine who lives out in the desert by Pyramid Lake, NV. He put together quite a system, now over 20KW and it is always growing as he has 40 acres where he can add his solar. I sometimes ride my Reno e-bike out there and charge from his 240 VAC. Several miles down an unpaved road. The range of my Zero 6.5  DS (6.5 KWH, dual sport) is quite limited compared to the E-bike I keep here in Auburn. But with his charger, I can go for a nice ride around Pyramid Lake which I could never do from my home in Reno if it wasn't for his set-up in the middle of the desert out there.

-Don-  Auburn, CA

DonTom said:

Sure, it would take a lot of solar for 100,000 watt SuperChargers!

But there are several level two chargers (240 VAC) that are 100% solar and batteries. One is the free charger at Boreal Ski Resort at Donner Summit.

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At Level 2 charging, it can only handle 1-2 cars per day per space (6-8 hours of full solar).

Another is from a buddy of mine who lives out in the desert by Pyramid Lake, NV. He put together quite a system, now over 20KW and it is always growing as he has 40 acres where he can add his solar. I sometimes ride my Reno e-bike out there and charge from his 240 VAC. Several miles down an unpaved road. The range of my Zero 6.5  DS (6.5 KWH, dual sport) is quite limited compared to the E-bike I keep here in Auburn. But with his charger, I can go for a nice ride around Pyramid Lake which I could never do from my home in Reno if it wasn't for his set-up in the middle of the desert out there.

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And how much did he spend to let you save 1 or 2 gallons of gas?  Or $1 worth of electricity?

Lou Schneider said:

OK, let's assume an RV needs four times as much battery capacity as a Tesla to go that same 200 miles.  That makes sense as a rough estimate since a typical Class A motorhome uses about four times as much gas as a midsize car (8 mpg vs 32 MPG).

The largest RV power source in an RV park is 250 volts at 50 amps.  Using every bit of power you can pull out of that outlet it will take 33 hours to replace the 400,000 watt/hours drained out of the battery.  Limit the draw from that 50 amp outlet to it's 80% continuous power rating and it will take 41 hours to recharge that RV.  If you want power to use inside the RV while it's charging, reduce the charging rate accordingly.

Doesn't sound too practical without a major rebuilding of the RV park infrastructure.

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IMO, that is already fairly practical for those parked at a RV park for a couple of days. But I assume as E-RVs become more common, the newer RV parks will have better systems where possible. But still years off, no doubt.

-Don-  Auburn, CA

Lou Schneider said:

At Level 2 charging, it can only handle 1-2 cars per day per space (6-8 hours of full solar).

And how much did he spend to let you save 2-3 gallons of gas?  Or $1 worth of electricity?

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Just like people do not usually buy motorcycles to save money on gas, few will buy an EV to save money on gas. The price of my Tesla and  E-bikes would probably buy a few lifetimes of gasoline.

But I would say it helps reduce the price a bit.

My Tesla, if converted to average cost of gasoline, gets 116 MPG. But that "MPG range"  is extended by Level Two free "opportunity charging" as I stop to have a meal at some places.

My E-bikes get more like a 1000 miles per gallon equivalency. My better E-bike has 16.3 KWH of battery. That is $11,500.00 worth of battery!  More than half the price of the bike. The battery is expected to last 465,000 miles to be down to 80% of it's range. The battery has a five year warranty, the rest of the bike is only two years.

BTW, there is no profit made on Tesla SuperChargers. They charge the going rate per KWH for the area the superchargers are located. An average of around $8.45 for 300 miles of range.

This is just for info. I would never claim anybody saves money by going electric. Maybe someday, but that will be a ways off.

-Don-  Auburn, CA

Alaskansnowbirds said:

Even if we have the generating capacity, we don't have the electrical infrastructure to get that electricity from the generating plant to the campground. I saw on a TV special that if you lived on a 5 house cul-de-sac, no more than 2 or 3 could plug their EVs in at the same time. The local power grid can't handle the load.

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If I get this correctly, the Tesla Quick Charging stations are kind of like those little charger packs you can buy that are basically a battery. You charge it up, and then when you need to, you plug you phone into it and it charges up your phone battery. Then you plug it back into the power and recharge it. That is currently the only way we could actively charge a lot of EV's off the current grid.

Yes, solar wind, and even nuclear would need to be on the table to build the kind of grid that could satisfy our need to travel around in personal vehicles powered by Electricity.
As for Nuclear, I think that we could work on a more practical nuclear generation than the old methods if the 20th Century. Those have proved inadequate and far too dangerous, but if we work on it, we can solve the problems of the first generation power plants and create something much cleaner and more efficient.

Was just reading this yesterday:
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/why-we-need-innovative-nuclear-power/?fbclid=IwAR3DRlfCI-2tS51W-V9HLzSGKDd5-z5tpC_cDxr9jVVoTSw5E0pTd6VPnQ0

The problem with nuclear is it is base load technology, meaning it does not throttle up and down easily, when combined with wind and solar it does nothing to help with grid instability.

I was just reading this.


Expect 350,000 watt Tesla SuperChargers to be here soon.

Those ERVs may be coming sooner than I expected.

I hope my next RV to be an ERV.

-Don-  Auburn, CA

SeilerBird said:

The big problem for the whole electric vehicle industry is charging stations. The best idea is to install charging stations that use solar panels to charge the vehicles.

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having designed such a station for a single vehicle, I can tell you it gets very expensive very quickly..
the solar for an autonomous station such as CPE100 ( 24 Kw )  is not economically viable..

Not sure if it was a CONCEPT or actual production but I recall seeing an article on one already..

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Winnebago is building electric-powered motorhomes for commercial use, e.g. mobile medical facilities. Again, a local use rather than over-the-road or long term travel. Plus, such vehicles always have huge onboard generators to power the medical equipment (think: mobile MRI machines) and generously sized a/c systems.

https://electrek.co/2018/05/02/winnebago-all-electric-rv-platform-electric-motorhome/

The stop and go city driving may be more of a battery range drainer,  than prolonged highway speeds.

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Not when you are cruising the highway in a tall, blunt brick.  If RVs could be made as aerodynamic as a Tesla 3, they would probably be getting 16-20 mpg and nobody would care about fuel economy anymore.

From your link in the  link, here,


It looks like a good start. Perhaps they will have a decent range E-RV by the time I am ready to replace mine. I doubt charging stations will be much of a problem in the near future.
-Don-  Auburn, CA

LarsMac said:

I can see a Hybrid coming down the Pike any day now.

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I  think this makes much more sense. Imagine every time you lift your foot the rig goes into dynamic braking, recharging the batteries. With the amount of weight you're talking about in bigger rigs, it takes a lot of braking horsepower to stop them which adds up to a lot of potential energy which could be recaptured. I could imagine this kind of setup adding 20-30% to the mileage depending upon terrain. This could be done today, without a worry about range, charging stations, infrastructure, etc

sightseers said:

The stop and go city driving may be more of a battery range drainer,  than prolonged highway speeds.

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That's in ICE vehicles. With EV's, you get your best range in that stop and go traffic. Lots of deceleration regen combined with slow speeds give great range with EV's unlike ICE vehicles.

BTW, my Tesla has so much deceleration regeneration at slow speeds, rarely need to touch the brake. At its default setting, my brake lights will come on automatically when I let go of the "gas" pedal.  At higher speeds, the decel regen decreases automatically as then it would slow down dangerously fast if it didn't.

So if you see a Tesla "braking" down a hill--well, s/he never even touched the brake. Just eased off on the pedal a bit.

With my E-motorcycles, they get about half the range each time the speed is doubled. Not so sure about the Tesla, but I assume it's probably about the same. My 310 mile range is for mixed driving. Will get a lot better than that 310 miles at slow speeds and a lot worse at very fast speeds.

On my E-motorcycles, on a longer trip, if I am in a big hurry, I must slow down.  That saves a lot of time as I won't have to recharge nearly as long.

-Don-  Auburn, CA

Electric powered vehicles have been pulling heavy loads around for many years now.

Trains or locomotives,  are nothing but a electric powered vehicle with a really big diesel generator.

Yeah, an electric motor is fantastic for generating low end torque to haul stuff and accelerate.  It's inherently a variable-torque system with oodles of horsepower at low rpms.  It's the batteries that are the weak link, both in terms of capacity and cost.  To me, a diesel-electric motorhome seems more promising than a battery-powered electric. Especially since the coach probably needs a genset anyway...
What many people miss is that it takes 746 watts to be the equivalent of 1 Horsepower.  If it takes 200 hp to move a motorhome under typical conditions, that's about 150 KILOWATTS. Continuous.  That's the output of 19 gensets in the typical diesel pusher (based on the common Onan 8kw genset).

Back2PA said:

This could be done today, without a worry about range, charging stations, infrastructure, etc

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That is done today. My ebikes have both, decel regen and braking regen. The percentages can be set via Bluetooth with a SmartPhone.

There are three modes, eco, custom and Sport.

Eco gives the best regen and range, but less performance.

Sport Mode puts everything at max, 0-60 MPH in 3.0 seconds, 102 MPH up a hill, same speed down the hill (set by the controller). At max speed, it's like a cruise control. At max speed, it feels like you're slowing down when you go down hill at the exact  same speed, but it's not. We just expect to feel such a speed increase, but it won't , so it plays games with our senses and feels like it's slowing down.

In the custom mode, I set it for:

Top speed=87 MPH.
Max Torque= 80%
Max deceleration  regen= 25%
Max braking regen=100%
Around town I use the "eco" mode.

On the freeway or on long stretches of fast road with few stops, I use my custom mode.

I almost never use the Sport mode.

The Tesla tries its best to set such stuff automatically for how you're driving.


But the deceleration regen as well as the acceleration can be set more mild, to make it seem more like a normal car. I just keep mine at the defaults which is nothing like an ICE vehicle.


-Don-  Auburn, CA

DonTom said:

That is done today.

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Sorry yes, my point was it could be done with motorhomes today

Gary RV_Wizard said:

Especially since the coach probably needs a genset anyway...

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The KWH of these batteries can run a lot of stuff, perhaps not much need for a genset. And you have high voltage to start with.

So the real issue is to have more things run on higher voltage DC so a high voltage inverter or generator will not be necessary.

BTW, my e-bikes use a DC to DC converter to get 13.8 volts. Think how long I can leave my headlight on with 16.3 KWH at a 40 watt draw. More than a couple of weeks, unlike any ICE vehicle. Now with the RV and all the KWH it will need just for when the motor is running--that's a lot of power to use for other things when it's not running.

I think my  Tesla uses a 12 volt battery to get it's low voltage.

But perhaps in the future, if E-RVs become common, more stuff will be designed for high voltage DC. No gen set, no inverter needed for anything. And not much concern about battery drain with all those KWHs available.


-Don-  Auburn, CA