Have Been Afraid Of This For Years

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One thing the articles don't mention that an equivalent amount of conventional power must be kept on hot standby while the wind turbines are running because wind power is so erratic.  Hot standby means a power plant is up and running but supplying little or no power to the grid so it's available to instantly pick up the load when the wind dies down.

Wind power loses a lot of it's claimed advantages when you include the need for hot standby power because the hot standby plants continue burning fuel even though they're producing little or no usable power.
 
Hi Everyone,

While doing some traveling out west to visit a relative, I noticed an awful lot of the windmills in place. I thought that it detracted from the natural beauty of the environment. I remember how nice it was to drive that way years ago.
 
docj said:
With all due respect, the facts don't support that claim.  Here's are some articles on the subject:

Interesting articles, as with everything, considering the sources of the information and how factual they really are. 
I would guess that it matters what your energy manufacturing costs are.  Here in Indiana, abundance of available coal, leaving the environmentalist out of the discussion, Energy is dirt cheap to produce, and the wind is not always blowing.  I'm not saying wind turbines don't have their place, just aren't a one stop solution.
 
Lou Schneider said:
One thing the articles don't mention that an equivalent amount of conventional power must be kept on hot standby while the wind turbines are running because wind power is so erratic.  Hot standby means a power plant is up and running but supplying little or no power to the grid so it's available to instantly pick up the load when the wind dies down.

Wind power loses a lot of it's claimed advantages when you include the need for hot standby power because the hot standby plants continue burning fuel even though they're producing little or no usable power.

With all due respect, your answer would be true if every area of the country stood alone and had to produce its own power.  But the US operates as a giant electric grid.  Here's the Department of Energy's answer to your question:

WHAT HAPPENS TO THE ELECTRICITY SUPPLY WHEN THE WIND ISN?T BLOWING? DOES WIND NEED TO BE "BACKED UP" BY OTHER SOURCES OF POWER GENERATION?
The U.S. power grid consists of a huge number of interconnected transmission lines that connect a variety of generation sources to loads. The wind does not always blow and the sun doesn't always shine, which creates additional variability (due to the changing output of wind and solar) and uncertainty (due to the inability to perfectly forecast wind or solar output).

But power grid operators have always had to deal with variability. Other forms of power generation, including traditional thermal generation, can unexpectedly trip off-line without notice; all forms of power generation may sometimes not operate when called upon. There is also uncertainty inherent in the system due to ever-changing load (energy demand) that cannot be predicted perfectly, which power grid operators have always had to manage.

Grid operators use the interconnected power system to access other forms of generation when contingencies occur and continually turn generators on and off when needed to meet the overall grid demand.

Adding variable renewable power to the grid does not inherently change how this process of balancing electricity supply and demand works. Studies have shown that the grid can accommodate large penetrations of variable renewable power without sacrificing reliability, and without the need for "backup" generation.

https://www.energy.gov/eere/wind/frequently-asked-questions-about-wind-energy#ElectricitySupply
 
No one type of energy is a one stop solution. Coal is on it?s way out. There is no such thing as clean coal. The term is misleading. Clean coal is a process that only one energy plant was doing until, I think, last year. It is too expensive. Oil may be plentiful now but it will someday run out. We get 40% of our oil from Canada so we better start being nicer to them. I see a lot of solar ?fields? going up everywhere. We have one down the street from us. Hydro electric is another form of energy. It kind of amazes me that some folks are so concerned about birds but not about the environment as a whole. Like I said in an earlier post cats, autos and buildings kill nearly 3 million birds a year. Wind turbines about 300,000 per year.
 
lynnmor said:
Jobs are created to manufacture windmills, but you might want to know where those jobs are located.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wind_turbine_manufacturers

Energy production is very much a global business since the entire world uses it.  It's natural to expect that wind manufacturers would exist throughout the world.  Some other countries are significantly larger users of wind energy than the US is.
 
All the fans in my house, except the ceiling fans, have protective shrouds.  It's a thought.
 
Drifterrider said:
All the fans in my house, except the ceiling fans, have protective shrouds.  It's a thought.

So the birds can still fly into your ceiling fans. All kidding aside, I think shrouds around wind turbines would be a bit difficult. But I?m not any kind of engineer.
 
PJ Stough said:
Where I live many people are saying wind turbines are not a panacea, but but part of a way to reduce the use of fossil fuels.
  So we get to choose - black lung or dead birds?
 
lynnmor said:
Jobs are created to manufacture windmills, but you might want to know where those jobs are located.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wind_turbine_manufacturers
I may be wrong but I think you are saying that a lot of our wind turbines and blades are manufactured outside the US and shipped to the US.  But what is forgotten is that most other countries also use wind power.  I know of one large blade manufacturing plant in North Dakota that ships many blades regionally and I would think that the same situation exists in several other regions of the US.
 
Bill N said:
I may be wrong but I think you are saying that a lot of our wind turbines and blades are manufactured outside the US and shipped to the US.  But what is forgotten is that most other countries also use wind power.  I know of one large blade manufacturing plant in North Dakota that ships many blades regionally and I would think that the same situation exists in several other regions of the US.

My problem is the subsidies given to the wind industry and they in turn produce much of the hardware out of this country.  Here is one report, but you can search for many more: https://www.nationalreview.com/2016/06/wind-energy-subsidies-billions/
 
In a few more post, Trump will be the cause, and there will be a another Senator hearing, and Russia will have something to do with the birds flight-path, somehow, because the blade manufactures gave out fake news, and China controls the wind.

Ahhh, back to topic: Thanks For the GREAT original pic Gator, it was quite humorous.  8)

 
lynnmor said:
My problem is the subsidies given to the wind industry and they in turn produce much of the hardware out of this country.  Here is one report, but you can search for many more: https://www.nationalreview.com/2016/06/wind-energy-subsidies-billions/

I quit reading the link when I came across "According to Wikipedia....."  Surely you are aware that anybody can add anything to Wikipedia without much interference or source checking.  I always thought that if some industry was so great and offered a lot of profit, investors would be flocking to buy in.  But when it is the government doing the flocking I get a bit hinky.

Bill
 
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