Travel trailer year round?

My intro post is here which has a lot of the background. http://www.rvforum.net/SMF_forum/index.php/topic,118775.new.html#new

I was all set to buy a typical bunkhouse 19-20' travel trailer when winter came along. I feel stupid now but I had no idea these trailers were mostly just for two seasons, three at most.  I've been looking for something that is four seasons but so far nothing that fits my criteria and I'm getting worried that it just doesn't exist. Must have a bunkhouse, full bed, dry bath. Would like no slides or at least functional with slides in as I plan to be in RV parks as little as possible.

Is there a way to take a typical trailer and add insulation in the walls and around pipes and vital guts? I know about the Oliver but it doesn't have the bunkhouse which is vital.

darnheather said:

Is there a way to take a typical trailer and add insulation in the walls and around pipes and vital guts?

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That won't help one bit. RVs do poorly in winter for a lot of reasons. Mainly it has to do with so many holes in the outer skin like windows, air conditioners, pipes, etc. You can't plug them all up. The walls are thin and there is no attic. RVs are not meant for winter no matter what you do. There are some people that do stay in them all winter. They are called Floridians and Arizonians.

SeilerBird said:

That won't help one bit. RVs do poorly in winter for a lot of reasons. Mainly it has to do with so many holes in the outer skin like windows, air conditioners, pipes, etc. You can't plug them all up. The walls are thin and there is no attic. RVs are not meant for winter no matter what you do. There are some people that do stay in them all winter. They are called Floridians and Arizonians.

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Well I have found several companies that make 4 season RVs but so far none with the specifications I desire.

Welcome to the Forum!

What part of this great country do you plan to be for the winter?  As Tom said, they are okay in warmer climates ONLY.

Better insulated means more weight, and more expensive.  Since it can not be seen, many manufacturers see no need to add something you can't see.  A more expensive unit will more likely include enclosed underbelly, heated underbelly and tank heaters.

For any unit, blocking / insulating windows and vents can help keep it warm, but loses a lot of natural light.  Skirting of some type also will save heat.  Electric blankets / mattress heaters also help.  Note these things may not make it comfortable, it will simply be less uncomfortable.

darnheather said:

Well I have found several companies that make 4 season RVs but so far none with the specifications I desire.

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A true four season trailer does not exist. They are marketing tactics only.

Tom and I always disagree on this. People all over the northland stay in trailers all winter, but it is cramped, extremely hard, expensive (lots and lots of propane), and generally uncomfortable. I have been in northern Minnesota, and there are those who do it. I know I wouldn?t. However a four season trailer for winter in Virginia is a different animal. There are some manufacturers that make a unit perfectly capable of temps on the low 20s, but the ones I know of are in Canada or Oregon, a long way for the OP. Lance, Outdoors RV, Northwoods, Oliver, and Escape come to mind. But the OP?s requirements are quite unique, and I doubt she will find a unit with her specs available. However if she is handy with tools and woodworking, she could take out the sofa in the units that almost fit her specs and replace with bunk beds. It will be dreadfully crowded though, and I couldn?t imagine living in it for a year. For weekend or weeklong trips? Possible.

Note my information is first hand experience. Our Outdoors RV trailer was perfectly comfortable to the mid 20s, and not much worse at 20. Single digits? Much harder, but I know those who have done it when adding skirting and lots of insulation in the windows. Hard work though.

UTTransplant said:

Tom and I always disagree on this. People all over the northland stay in trailers all winter, but it is cramped, extremely hard, expensive (lots and lots of propane), and generally uncomfortable. I have been in northern Minnesota, and there are those who do it. I know I wouldn?t. However a four season trailer for winter in Virginia is a different animal. There are some manufacturers that make a unit perfectly capable of temps on the low 20s, but the ones I know of are in Canada or Oregon, a long way for the OP. Lance, Outdoors RV, Northwoods, Oliver, and Escape come to mind. But the OP?s requirements are quite unique, and I doubt she will find a unit with her specs available. However if she is handy with tools and woodworking, she could take out the sofa in the units that almost fit her specs and replace with bunk beds. It will be dreadfully crowded though, and I couldn?t imagine living in it for a year. For weekend or weeklong trips? Possible.

Note my information is first hand experience. Our Outdoors RV trailer was perfectly comfortable to the mid 20s, and not much worse at 20. Single digits? Much harder, but I know those who have done it when adding skirting and lots of insulation in the windows. Hard work though.

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Thanks. I plan to try to stick to warmer climes during the winter of the travel year but yes for at least a year we'll be parked on land in Virginia. I've been Googling all day and did come upon the Outdoors RV which does seem capable of four seasons at least long enough for a freak cold snap or with a good setup (skirting and electric hookup) here in VA.  And they have one with the exact specifications I want. However, they are on the other side of the country. I'd have to tent camp out to get it. I'd love to find a used one closer! Even one in FL would be worth the drive.

I have friends who have been traveling with a 5th wheel for two years now. They love it.

  Contrary to some that are clueless...there are ( or were) RV’s designed for cold weather use. No, they  will not compare to a well constructed stick and mortar home....but plenty doable in the correct brand. You will use a lot of propane, you may have some frost on the inside (if you cook a lot, take long showers, have supplemental gas heat, etc.) There are in fact two or three manufacturers that had 10 and 20 degree “BELOW” zero guarantees. Skirting is a plus, as rv’s generally have lots of windows....covering a few with bubble insulation (or similar) will help, your water supply to camper (hose) must be heat taped and insulated, the water supply (from city, campsite, etc) must be deep enough to prevent freezing, with the spigot/ and piping heat taped and insulated, and there are other small items that can be done to improve winter comfort.

    Is it ideal.....no! But many in the oil fields of Wyoming, and North Dakota live with their families in RV’s year round.....using  an RV of far less quality than ours!

  As I have mentioned before, we lived in our 5th wheel (a 1990 model) for two winters ( 1998 and 1999) seeing several -30 F and numerous -20 F mornings....and never had a freeze-up! We ran “only” our forced air heat, and stayed very comfortable.  The first winter, we had “no” skirting....we skirted for the second, and we may have used less propane. We did the aforementioned  modifications,  to help make it a better winter unit. The “only” frosting we had was in the front closet (sliding doors), due to our own mistakes. We closed the sliding doors...once opened....all was well. We also had a small gasket leak on a slide-out.....a folded bath towel fixed that! Those were our only problems.

    We routinely go hunting, while boondocking for two to three weeks at a time....with temperatures often going below zero. We use a lot of propane, have to run the generator several hours per day to keep the batteries charged, but can enjoy a nice hot shower occasionally, and overall.....live pretty darn good. In a campground or a permanent site....a “piece of cake”....at least down to a -20 to -30.  I would not hesitate (and have) go out for a short (week or so) boondocking trip,  knowing I would see the occasional -20F. With an RV truly designed as a 4 season unit,  a little knowledge, a little preparation, a little perseverance, it’s “not” a major undertaking. There will be a lot to learn, there will be sacrifices, there will be mistakes, it ain’t a stick and mortar home.....but it’s doable.

  If you require a travel trailer, look at the Excel brand (company folded 2 or 3 years ago). Their travel trailers had a minus 10 F guarantee. I “am not” certain if they offered a bunkhouse model. Finding a 5th wheel that will meet you wintering needs will be far easier to find.

Solid advice from UTTransplant & Memtb.  Some folks may be willing to endure conditions that are far from ideal, and/or willing to pay heavily to make them tolerable.


I'll add one other caution:  Beware of RVs that advertise a "4 Seasons" or "Arctic" add-on package.  That option is your clue that the manufacturer skimped on construction to hold the base price down, but then offers to add some insulation and maybe dual pane glass back in for a substantial extra charge. If you need cold (or hot) weather capability, you will be better off purchasing a mid or upper tier brand that builds better from the ground up.
Unfortunately for darnheather, the market for small travel trailers is pretty much all low end (low price) models, so it will likely be difficult to find one of the few brands that offer higher quality construction & insulation.

SeilerBird said:

A true four season trailer does not exist. They are marketing tactics only.

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UTTransplant said:

Tom and I always disagree on this. People all over the northland stay in trailers all winter, but it is cramped, extremely hard, expensive (lots and lots of propane), and generally uncomfortable. I have been in northern Minnesota, and there are those who do it.

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Tom and Kevin don't really disagree. Tom says that there are no four season RVs. He's absolutely correct. Kevin says that lots of people live in an RV during the winter. He's correct too. In fact, for one winter, I was one of them. I had heat tape on all of the water lines, I had an second, large propane tank, I had foam insulation panels taped over the windows, the ceiling, the door, and parts of the walls.

Once, I went back home for a long weekend. While I was away, the RV park experienced a power outage, and my battery ran down. With no 12V power, the furnace and water heater controllers quit, Pipes burst. the water heater tank burst. It was not at all nice.

Tom is right. RVs are not meant for the winter.

Joel

On many older RV's I've seen couches that had a back that was on a big piano hinge.

The back raised up and hooked into chains from ceiling or sat on props like legs and made an upper bunk with the bottom being the lower bunk.

Toss out the sofa and build one of those. Basically you need plywood, cushions and covers.

Great Horned Owl said:

Tom and Kevin don't really disagree. Tom says that there are no four season RVs. He's absolutely correct. Kevin says that lots of people live in an RV during the winter. He's correct too. In fact, for one winter, I was one of them. I had heat tape on all of the water lines, I had an second, large propane tank, I had foam insulation panels taped over the windows, the ceiling, the door, and parts of the walls.

Once, I went back home for a long weekend. While I was away, the RV park experienced a power outage, and my battery ran down. With no 12V power, the furnace and water heater controllers quit, Pipes burst. the water heater tank burst. It was not at all nice.

Tom is right. RVs are not meant for the winter.

Joel

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    Joel.....please read my post! You?re also welcome to camp (boondock) beside us, on some good cool mornings....let?s say -10 F or colder. We will be in the camper with running water, and most of the comforts of home!

Great Horned Owl said:

Tom and Kevin don't really disagree. Tom says that there are no four season RVs. He's absolutely correct. Kevin says that lots of people live in an RV during the winter. He's correct too. In fact, for one winter, I was one of them. I had heat tape on all of the water lines, I had an second, large propane tank, I had foam insulation panels taped over the windows, the ceiling, the door, and parts of the walls.

Once, I went back home for a long weekend. While I was away, the RV park experienced a power outage, and my battery ran down. With no 12V power, the furnace and water heater controllers quit, Pipes burst. the water heater tank burst. It was not at all nice.

Tom is right. RVs are not meant for the winter.

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Thanks for defending me Joel. There are no four season RVs. There are RVs advertised as four season, but anyone buying one and attempting to live in all winter will soon be adding insulation, fencing around the basement, a larger propane tank, and a bunch of electric heaters. And there is no way they are comfortable unless they do a bunch of modifications.

I used to do a lot of snow skiing. I lived at Lake Tahoe, Reno and Salt Lake City. I love the cold. But not when I am trying to live and sleep in my RV.

  darnheather,  take a look at “Roughneck” travel trailers built in Alberta, Canada. Rated for a minus40 F.....Do not know if a bunkhouse model is available! Good your search will be difficult, but not impossible! 

      https://www.reddeerrv.com/roughneck
      https://generalcoachcan.com/rough-neck-trailers-3/

    Northwood Desert Fox, is an option. Classified as a 4-season, toy hauler. The toy hauler has a bed option in the toy hauler section.

Where you are in Virginia will also make a difference. Suffolk and Luray are completely different climates.

DearMissMermaid said:

On many older RV's I've seen couches that had a back that was on a big piano hinge.

The back raised up and hooked into chains from ceiling or sat on props like legs and made an upper bunk with the bottom being the lower bunk.

Toss out the sofa and build one of those. Basically you need plywood, cushions and covers.

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Good suggestion on how to create a bunk house modification. However, I'd be very cautious hooking a load bearing chain or other apparatus to the ceiling unless properly reinforced. Myself, I'd be more comfortable using legs from the floor to support a top bunk. You might also be able to find some telescoping legs with a locking brace (like the fold down legs on a card table).

darnheather I used a 26' Tracer executive TT for 3 years for work year round seeing winter temps down to -15 for weeks at a time. I used insulation board as skirting and had 2 heat lamps under my valves and a heated water hose for the outside. 1 year I put thin window plastic on the outside of the windows which helped cut the draft from the sliding windows. On the inside I had 1 oil radiator heater to help cut propane cost and a dehumidifier which pulled over 12 gallons of water out of the air inside. It was comfortable. It can be done until you find what you need/want.

Only problem I had were a heated hose gave up on me and I had to replace it. I have a new Montana now with the 4 seasons package up 15 miles south of lake Michigan and it's been down in the 10-13' range on lows so far without skirting and while I use more propane the camper is also almost twice as long.

Good luck.

Sam

So the two schools of thought are, some say it's impossible, and some do it. It really comes down to how determined you are to make it work, and how hard you are willing to work to accomplish the goal.  All good advice though from those that have experience. Take the parts that work for you and give it try. You sound determined to make it happen.

I live in San Jose so most people will laugh at my idea of winter. But I am always freezing in the winter. If it is 50 degrees outside it is only a few degrees warmer inside my trailer. I always wonder why the manufacturer felt the need to put three giant windows in the bedroom? I don't care for waking up at the crack of dawn when the sun rises and shines into my bedroom. The mini blinds are useless. I had to hang a large towel over the window inside my bedroom to block the sunrise.

akajulz said:

I live in San Jose so most people will laugh at my idea of winter. But I am always freezing in the winter. If it is 50 degrees outside it is only a few degrees warmer inside my trailer. I always wonder why the manufacturer felt the need to put three giant windows in the bedroom? I don't care for waking up at the crack of dawn when the sun rises and shines into my bedroom. The mini blinds are useless. I had to hang a large towel over the window inside my bedroom to block the sunrise.

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Reflectix is your friend. Cut it a tiny bit larger than the window and push it between blinds and window. Darkening and insulation.