Towing a TT with an old half ton truck questions

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Lowell said:
All a weight distributing hitch does is create a bridge across the hitch ball to force the front end of the truck down to the original ride height.  Without it the truck's rear axle acts as a fulcrum and as you add weight on the hitch the front of the truck rises and removes weight from the steering axle.

Has anyone every hooked up their TT, placed the front wheels on a scale, and then weighed the front axle with and without the the weight distribution portion engaged?  I always wanted to do that but never did.  I would like to know a quantitative percentage of improvement that is obtained from a weight distribution system. Maybe someday i will get around to it.
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I saw a video of a couple of guys with sophisticated scales and electronic equipment do a before and after WDH. It did redistribute the weight to the front axle and to the trailer axles. Convinced me.
 
The first time I pulled my cargo trailer loaded I knew I needed something. The truck can handle the weight but it handles it better with the WD hitch. And the built in anti sway it a great bonus.

As soon as I got the RV the WD hitch was the first thing I ordered.

And for those that have never used one .....You need to understand how they work and make sure they are setup correctly.

I've seen 2 truck/trailers where the load bars were just hanging there...Not carrying any weight.
 
I saw a truck with a WD adjusted so tight the rear drive wheels had no traction.
 
The correct way to set a WDH is return no more weight to the front axle than was removed when hitching a trailer to the ball. I recommended that folks check with the tow vehicle manufacturer, as some are recommending returning only about 50% of the weight. I know this gets slammed by a few folks, but I have to believe that the manufacturer of the tow vehicle and the safety societies that research this stuff probably know more about it than we do. Some of us old folks probably remember that a WDH was adjusted by having equal squat front and back. Took a while for folks to get that out of their minds too.
 
Back in the 60's we were returning home from a camping trip in our station wagon.  Dad had come home a day early to get back to work.  I loaded the car so all the gear was in the back to leave more "play" space in the middle for the 6 hour drive home.  It was SO  tail heavy, mom had trouble steering the car.  After 10 miles, we stopped and repacked the car with the tent and heavy steel poles on the floor of the back seat.  The rest of the trip was uneventful.

A properly adjusted WD hitch does exactly the same thing, moving the load forward and increasing (returning) weight to the front steer axles.
 
Arch Hoagland said:
I weighed all axles with everything hooked up and then with the weight distribution disconnected.  That was on a Komfort 27' travel trailer and a 1999 GMC half ton pickup truck.

In my case it moved about 200 pounds to the front of the truck from the rear.
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I did the same thing with my combo a few years ago, with similar results. 1995 Chevy Suburban 3/4 ton, pulling a 32' TT about 9500# loaded. Calculated tongue weight to be 1280# or around 13.5%. Without the WDH engaged, my Suburban's front axle weighed 2520#. With the WDH engaged, the front axle increased to 2760#. Keep in mind that the extra weight ADDED to the front axle was also SUBTRACTED from the rear axle, so the benefit is two-fold in that context.
 
When you think about it, you need a really good hitch. To get 200 lbs of down load on the front tires, it takes quite a bit of ft/lbs at the hitch.
 
Okay... let's see if I got it ? ....200 lbs. of rear axle weight, transferred to the front axle.

by a complex W/D hitch assembly... that adds about 50% of that weight to the rear axle ...???
 
sightseers said:
Okay... let's see if I got it ? ....200 lbs. of rear axle weight, transferred to the front axle.

by a complex W/D hitch assembly... that adds about 50% of that weight to the rear axle ...???
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Actually, the weight distribution arms removes weight from the truck's rear axle by forcing the hitch upwards.  The way it does this is by creating a bridge across the hitch and forcing the hitch .  This supports the hitch, raising it up and removing weight from the truck's rear axle.  The removed weight gets distributed between the truck's front axle and the trailer axles.

Trailer Life demonstrated this in dramatic fashion back in the 1960s with the new front wheel drive Oldmosbile Toronado.  They hitched it to a trailer, cranked up the weight distribution bars as tight as they would go and removed the rear tires from the car so the rear axle hung free in mid-air.  Then they took the combo for a run on the SoCal freeways without any problems except for a CHP officer who was convinced they were doing something illegal but couldn't find anything specific to cite them.
 
Lou Schneider said:
Actually, the weight distribution arms removes weight from the truck's rear axle by forcing the hitch upwards.  The way it does this is by creating a bridge across the hitch and forcing the hitch .  This supports the hitch, raising it up and removing weight from the truck's rear axle.  The removed weight gets distributed between the truck's front axle and the trailer axles.

Trailer Life demonstrated this in dramatic fashion back in the 1960s with the new front wheel drive Oldmosbile Toronado.  They hitched it to a trailer, cranked up the weight distribution bars as tight as they would go and removed the rear tires from the car so the rear axle hung free in mid-air.  Then they took the combo for a run on the SoCal freeways without any problems except for a CHP officer who was convinced they were doing something illegal but couldn't find anything specific to cite them.
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Would have liked to be a fly on the wall for that conversation.    ;D
 
It has to be illegal to disable 30% of your braking capability!

I'd also be interested to hear what happened to the load on the trailer tires; both in the Olds case and when a standard tow has the bars too tight (trailer tires overloaded?).

Ernie
 
Ernie n Tara said:
I'd also be interested to hear what happened to the load on the trailer tires; both in the Olds case and when a standard tow has the bars too tight (trailer tires overloaded?).
Click to expand...

Here's a good video that demonstrates via actual measurements how a WD hitch distributes the trailer tongue weight from the truck's rear axle to the front axle and trailer axles, and compares that to what you get by using air bags to raise the rear end of the truck.

Skip ahead to the summary at the 11:00 minute mark if you aren't interested in the details:

https://youtu.be/XBZu39pQ8Gg

And a picture of the Olds Toronado demonstration:

https://goo.gl/images/pHB5UT
 
Thanks Lou, The video of the weight distribution/ air bag comparison answered a lot of questions for me.  :))  That video link should go into the library.
 
This is one reason I decided to full time in my RV parked and not driving around.  My dodge 1500 is awesome, I love it.  I learned afterwards that even when the dealer tells you and the model of the trailer has HT on it (Half Ton towable) it is now always the case.  So for not I am staying off the road until I can afford a 1 Ton or more.  Half tons just are not designed for towing 5th wheels unless they are really short ones.  Travel trailers are not much better but your options are greater.
 
GREAT INFORMATION!

I tried to summarize the data on the attached chart.

Basically, air bags took MORE wt off the front axle and added MORE wt to the rear axle, compared to hookup without air bags.
WD hitch returned over 75% of the weight back to the front axle AND took some weight off the rear axle compared to the unadjusted hookup.  It also returned about 10% of the hitch wt back to the TT axles.

Air bags leveled the load, but did nothing to help steering or braking on the front axle.
WD hitch did exactly what the name said - redistributed the load, increasing front axle load and reducing rear axle load.

 

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djw2112 said:
This is one reason I decided to full time in my RV parked and not driving around.  My dodge 1500 is awesome, I love it.  I learned afterwards that even when the dealer tells you and the model of the trailer has HT on it (Half Ton towable) it is now always the case.  So for not I am staying off the road until I can afford a 1 Ton or more.  Half tons just are not designed for towing 5th wheels unless they are really short ones.  Travel trailers are not much better but your options are greater.
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or.....you can legally modify your awesome truck...... into a 1 ton truck.

there are no laws prohibiting you from increasing the carrying capacity. 
 
grashley said:
GREAT INFORMATION!

I tried to summarize the data on the attached chart.
Click to expand...

Thanks for taking the time to put the video information into a nice spreadsheet. I've downloaded it for future use. Like when one of my friends don't think they need a WDH.
 
sightseers said:
or.....you can legally modify your awesome truck...... into a 1 ton truck.

there are no laws prohibiting you from increasing the carrying capacity.
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I agree but that can turn into alot of money.  I looked at the cheepo style spring helpers and I dont trust them.  I would have to go with the good ones when and if i do it and that is going to be $400 to $500 for the pair.    The nice guy down at the suspension shop gave me an estimate of $375 per side for the air lifts, isn't that nice of him  LMAO

This year was my property purchase, next year is a cover for my truck, the next year is a boat, and then it will be ready to spend the next year doing some upkeep on the RV again such as new or painted roof and some other things.  Then ill be fishing most every day after that :)
 
I can give close to real life comparison to your set up. I had a 1989 GMC ext. cab short bed k2500 with a man 5 sp. all stock 5.7. I ordered from the dealer sight unseen, took almost five months to get it. That was the first year GM came out with the full size Ext cab 4x4 short bed combo, and none where in Ca. yet. I'm pretty sure I was able to get the 3.73, but can't remember for sure. But I threw new rims and 33x12.5x15 XT on it soon as I got it, so I lost that ratio with those tires, making it close to your 3.43 Also I built heavy duty rear/front bumpers for off roading and hunting. I had a 24 Terry bunkhouse back then, something around 5k unloaded. But by the time I loaded for a weeks worth gear of hunting trips to N. Ca and also to S. Ore. plus a full cover dog box with 6 hounds in it, two trail bikes on top the dog box, and a couple hunting buddies, well we were loaded for Bear literally and some Lion trips too. The Truck handled everything just fine, a pleasure to drive on those long trips. Nothing compared to todays trucks with better torque curves or the Diesel engines. I had that truck/trailer set up for about 4 years and never had problems with it towing. I went with the manny 5sp because the auto trans back then were crap for towing, except a built Turbo 400 which could not get factory in that truck. Borrow that 5.9 sometime with your trailer, you'll be another converted,,,gregg
Air bags would be a good addition to help with your 1/2 ton sagging rear end
 
Broke Boater said:
I can give close to real life comparison to your set up. I had a 1989 GMC ext. cab short bed k2500 with a man 5 sp. all stock 5.7. I ordered from the dealer sight unseen, took almost five months to get it. That was the first year GM came out with the full size Ext cab 4x4 short bed combo, and none where in Ca. yet. I'm pretty sure I was able to get the 3.73, but can't remember for sure. But I threw new rims and 33x12.5x15 XT on it soon as I got it, so I lost that ratio with those tires, making it close to your 3.43 Also I built heavy duty rear/front bumpers for off roading and hunting. I had a 24 Terry bunkhouse back then, something around 5k unloaded. But by the time I loaded for a weeks worth gear of hunting trips to N. Ca and also to S. Ore. plus a full cover dog box with 6 hounds in it, two trail bikes on top the dog box, and a couple hunting buddies, well we were loaded for Bear literally and some Lion trips too. The Truck handled everything just fine, a pleasure to drive on those long trips. Nothing compared to todays trucks with better torque curves or the Diesel engines. I had that truck/trailer set up for about 4 years and never had problems with it towing. I went with the manny 5sp because the auto trans back then were crap for towing, except a built Turbo 400 which could not get factory in that truck. Borrow that 5.9 sometime with your trailer, you'll be another converted,,,gregg
Air bags would be a good addition to help with your 1/2 ton sagging rear end
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Thanks so much for sharing your experience.  That is pretty darn close.  I'm optimistic about this set up and I think it will do better than I expect.  I also wont be running near as much cargo as you.  Yes the Cummins is awesome, just so dang expensive.  I keep my eye out for them.  I looked at an 05 Dodge 2500 CCSB with the NV5600 with 250,000 miles and they still wanted 26,500!  My Dad has a 1998 2500 RCLB with the NV4500 and he has 610,000 on his!  Then of course the step dad has an 04 Dodge 2500 NV5600 truck with only 76,000 miles but his is the crew cab long bed so you need a football field to turn it around lol.
 
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