GVWR and UVW questions....

Hello everyone, first post other than my introduction. I'll try to make it straight to the point and let you experts ask any necessary questions you may have. So here it goes:

I have a 2014 Ford Explorer XLT with a 3.5 V6. It currently is not set up to tow, but obviously will be getting that done in the very near future. I plan on purchasing a travel trailer no later than this April. My dilemma is that I am obviously limited on the size of the trailer but have a family of 5 (3 young children). So I am trying to get as much real estate as I can while also not pushing the envelope on safety. I do live in Northern Idaho so rough terrain and steep roads are common as it is the Rockies. My wife is somewhat particular with some of her "musts" (14 years of marriage tells me not to fight that), so unfortunately her requests are pushing us to the top of my Explorers weight limit. With all that information, here is my question:

My Explorer has a listed max GVWR of 5,000 LBS. Different RV dealers are giving different numbers on what I realistically should be looking at for trailers. One has said don't go over 3,900 UVW, another said 4,100 and lastly one said 4,500. I would like some input from you all that have expertise in hauling trailers... not the guys that make money selling them.

I am sure that this (or similar) question has been asked before so feel free to send me that direction. Either way, I would like the info from those willing to share.

Thanks!

Forget UVW. Every trailer should have some stickers at the front corner, driver's side. One of those will state what the GVWR is for that trailer. Most RV salespeople concentrate on UVW, some because it helps them sell trailers, some because they don't know any better.

kdbgoat said:

Forget UVW. Every trailer should have some stickers at the front corner, driver's side. One of those will state what the GVWR is for that trailer. Most RV salespeople concentrate on UVW, some because it helps them sell trailers, some because they don't know any better.

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Exactly. And towing with a SUV you'll want to look at shorter trailers as well, although as long as you're under 5000 GVWR length will be self limiting to a degree.


Another consideration, your current tow vehicle does not have a factory tow package and you are planning on towing in the mountains. Besides a hitch, there are other aspects of a towing package to consider, such as heavy duty engine and transmission cooling, and possibly a larger alternator. Could even be bigger brakes although I am not familiar with the details of an Explorer.

We had a 2015 Ex. Payload was 1500#, didn't have tow package. The tow package has a larger radiator with an engine oil cooler. The engine obviously had extra oil lines to it. I think the tranny cooler section of the radiator is larger too, but not sure.

First of all, the Exlorers GVWR is pretty much irrelevant to your decision except with regard to its effect on the payload, which you can find on the placard on the driver's door post. You need that max payload number cause it relates to how much passenger & gear weight the Explorer can carry, so it limits the trailer tongue weight. With 5 people in the Explorer, you may not have much capacity left for anything else.  The other major number you need is the Explorer's Max Tow rating, which is the upper limit on any trailer you might want.  My guess is that  you won't even be able to pull that much due to other constraints, but its the place to start.  And as others have said, ignore the trailer UVW - only the trailer GVWR (loaded weight) is meaningful.  Unless perhaps you will be driving around with an empty trailer, just for show. 

If you look at the 2014 Ford Towing Guide, way down on pg 20 you will find the info on the Explorer.

https://www.fleet.ford.com/resources/ford/general/pdf/towingguides/14FLRVTTgde_Sep9.pdf

First of all notice that Explorers without the tow package have a 2000 lb max trailer weight! And that's without any factory trim options installed (they always reduce the capacity even more!).  And even if you have the heavier duty version, the upper limit starts at (5000 loaded).  However, you will be subtracting from that to account for the weight of wife & kids.  You might end up around that 4000 lb figure the sales people were proposing, but that's only if you have the variant of the Explorer that can do 5000 lbs max. I suspect you do NOT have that one, based on your description. Best to start with a Ford dealer and get the specifics for your particular Explorer (the VIN number will identify it).

Sorry to say, but in my opinion you really need to be looking at a different tow vehicle to tow any reasonable size trailer suitable for 5 people.

With the size of your family, you'll probably need a full size SUV or heavy duty passenger van. Just be sure that the SUV has the factory tow package. Some options include Ford Expedition or Excursion, Nissan Armada, Chevy Suburban, GMC Yukon, Chevy Tahoe, and Cadillac Expedition.

It's happened to a lot of people who get a travel trailer and then find out their tow vehicle isn't designed for the weight of the trailer. It almost happened to me. When I first started looking for a tow vehicle, the Ford Explorer seemed like a logical choice. I was surprised to find it has a small cargo capacity (important because of a travel trailer's tongue weight) and low towing capacity. I finally found an old (2004), low mileage, full size SUV which works great for towing my trailer. It's also my daily driver.

OK Explorer with 5000 GVWR.  How much does it weigh loded with family ready to go on vacation?  Subtract that number from 5000.  Thats the maximum hitch weight you can have.  Dont forget to include the hitch and hitch platform.  Honestly what DW wants, your needs for 5 etc, your best bet might be a tent trailer or more SUV.

Hey all. First off, thank you for the valuable input! I appreciate it. Unfortunately you told me what I suspected. What I am gathering is that I need to do one of two things, pay an exorbitant amount of money to get my explorer up to par with towing in which the tow capacity wouldn't meet my needs. Or... get a different vehicle all together. I may have to bite the bullet and get another vehicle. I welcome any more expertise and advise on this thread. As I stated in my OP, safety is priority #1 for me. Although my kids are all small (9 and under), I should probably error on the side of caution and get a trailer that my family can enjoy and "grow into" for lack of better words.

Again, thank you for your advice! Will keep you posted as I continue the process of getting set up.

Just a thought....Have you considered a class A or C as a option The money you spend on another Tow vehicle and a trailer could go a long way toward something with more room..

If you change vehicles, and IF you want to keep with a TT, check out the likes of a Dodge Ram MegaCab 3500.  Outlandish amount of room.  If you go with  another SUV be sure to skip the likes of 1500 Suburbans and find a 2500 Suburban.  A full sized 2500 series passanger van could also make a great tow vehicle.

Welcome to the Forum!

I agree with all of the above.  DO NOT listen to ANY salesman.  Here is why.

http://www.rvforum.net/SMF_forum/index.php/topic,90933.0.html

Find the yellow placard Gary referenced on the driver door latch pillar.  All cars and trucks since 2009 have one.  It gives you the max load the vehicle can carry based on its' weight when it left the factory.  From this number, subtract the weight of all passengers, car seats, toys, snacks and other cargo carried in the car.  Now subtract 80# for a WD hitch.  What is left is the MAXIMUM hitch wt the vehicle can handle - fully loaded, not UVW!  Take this number times 10 for the MAXIMUM  GVWR camper the vehicle can handle.  This assumes a full trailer and 10% hitch wt.

This number is actually stretching the limit a bit, as the hitch wt may exceed 10%.  If the camper weighs a bit less than GVWR, it is a small safety margin.

If you calculate this weight of passengers and cargo, plus WD hitch, it is simple to look at any vehicle payload placard, subtract this number, times 10 and know about how much TT the vehicle can handle.  Remember, too, that kids grow very fast, so add a bit of growing room!

Consider a pop-up type trailer if you need to keep the Explorer for awhile. There are some pretty good sized ones that weigh in at 2400-3000 lbs and can accommodate a sizeable family. Take a look at something like these Flagstaff or Rockwood models from Forest River:


http://www.forestriverinc.com/camping-trailers/flagstaff-tent
http://www.forestriverinc.com/camping-trailers/rockwood-tent#tab2

Gonecampin said:

My Explorer has a listed max GVWR of 5,000 LBS. Different RV dealers are giving different numbers on what I realistically should be looking at for trailers. One has said don't go over 3,900 UVW, another said 4,100 and lastly one said 4,500. I would like some input from you all that have expertise in hauling trailers... not the guys that make money selling them.

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What you're missing is the GCWR, or Gross Combined Weight Rating for your Explorer.  This is the most the Explorer and the trailer can weigh as a package.  A Ford dealer should be able to look this up using your VIN number, or you can find it in the 2014 Ford Towing Guide.

You can download a copy here:

https://www.fleet.ford.com/resources/ford/general/pdf/towingguides/14FLRVTTgde_Sep9.pdf

Page 20 lists the GCWR and "Maximum Loaded Trailer Weight" for the various versions of the 2014 Explorer, depending on engine size, whether you have 2WD or 4WD and the "Heavy Duty Tow Package".  This isn't just the hitch, but also beefed up engine and transmission cooling options.

For the 2wd Explorer with the 3.5L engine, the GCWR is either 6490 lbs or 9980 lbs, depending on whether or not you have the Heavy Duty Tow Package.  This gives "Maximum Loaded Trailer Weights" of 2000 lbs. or 5000 lbs.

But take these Trailer Weight numbers with a grain of salt.  First, they assume the Explorer is empty except for a 150 lb. driver, leaving as much weight as possible for the trailer before hitting the GCWR.

Since you'll be carrying your family and probably some other items inside the Explorer, you have to subtract their weights from the Maximum Loaded Trailer Weight to get the actual weight you can tow without exceeding the GCWR.

Second, the Maximum Loaded Trailer Weight assumes you will be towing a trailer with a Maximum Frontal Area of 20 sq. ft. with the stock cooling or 30 sq. ft with the HD Tow Package (Page 13).  Full size RV trailers are larger than this, an 8 ft wide x 8 ft tall trailer has 64 square feet of frontal area.  You'll need more power to move this larger frontal area down the road.

This is one reason experienced RVers suggest staying at 80% or less of the actual trailer weight capacity of your vehicle, to leave some reserve to handle the trailer's greater wind resistance.  Especially if you'll be towing in the mountains.

Gary RV_Wizard said:

Consider a pop-up type trailer if you need to keep the Explorer for awhile. There are some pretty good sized ones that weigh in at 2400-3000 lbs and can accommodate a sizeable family. Take a look at something like these Flagstaff or Rockwood models from Forest River:


http://www.forestriverinc.com/camping-trailers/flagstaff-tent
http://www.forestriverinc.com/camping-trailers/rockwood-tent#tab2

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I agree with this advice. Buy a trailer your current vehicle can tow. You don't need to upgrade until your certain that camping is agreeable with your family. When its time to get a new vehicle, consider something with more capacity, something that can tow your next camper. I'm a firm believer in starting with what you have now. As the family grows, you can grow the camper and tow vehicle with it.

Again, thank you all. I considered going with a popup trailer, however with where I live there are two reasons why I'm not so sure it is a good idea. Reason 1: Bears. I live in an area with a large bear population (both grizzly and black). 2: Winter camping. I plan on camping during cold months as well. Maybe not in the middle of winter, but definitely when it is freezing or a little below. Due to both of those, I feel I would need something a little more sturdy and insulated.

There was some advice to go small and make sure camping is suitable for the family. We have done quite a bit of camping in the past. All of it was tent camping though. I (like many of my friends) told myself that "real camping" was tent camping and I would never get a trailer.... yeah... that mentality has changed a bit . Still considering options and the advice provided. Planning on purchasing by the beginning of April if not sooner.

Bears!  With the smell of food a tin can otherwise known as a TT is maybe 30 seconds for a hungry bear to get in.

No amount of money spent will bring your current explorer up to the higher weight ratings.  You're stuck where you're at with it.  Even if you could upgrade everything and magically have an increased tow rating, you'd spend just as much doing that as you would buying a used truck capable of towing a camper that suits your needs, and simply driving two vehicles to a camping trip.  A used tahoe/suburban/expedition may be a good option for your family.

If you want to be ultra conservative, use the max gross weight of the trailer to see what works with your tow vehicle. Plan on 15% tongue weight as a worst case scenario and you'll have no problem matching  your trailer to your tow vehicle.

Alright, last update on this thread. I will be purchasing a 2019 F150 with the 3.5L Ecoboost V6. I am also purchasing a travel trailer. Fact of the matter is, the current vehicle I have will not cut it for the type and duration of camping adventures that my family will be doing. So... It's a matter of trading in the Explorer and going with a new set up. I can afford it, so might as well bite the bullet and "get-r-done". Now on to a new post about length of rig.

I know I have said it before... but It's worth saying again... thank you all for your expert advice and recommendations! I greatly appreciate it. Happy Camping!!!! 

Thanks for the update. Sorry the Explorer won't work, but better to find out before you get a trailer. As for the F150, it may not have enough cargo or towing capacity depending on the package you get. You absolutely should get a package that supports towing a travel trailer. Consider one of the following packages offered in the F150 which, in order of preference, are: Heavy Duty Payload Package (HDPP), Max Tow Package, or Tow Package. The HDPP offers you the most options in trailers it can safely tow.

Best wishes. Looking forward to your truck towing thread.

P.S. Ain't it great that you get a new truck!!! ;D )

IBTripping said:

Thanks for the update. Sorry the Explorer won't work, but better to find out before you get a trailer. As for the F150, it may not have enough cargo or towing capacity depending on the package you get. You absolutely should get a package that supports towing a travel trailer. Consider one of the following packages offered in the F150 which, in order of preference, are: Heavy Duty Payload Package (HDPP), Max Tow Package, or Tow Package. The HDPP offers you the most options in trailers it can safely tow.

Best wishes. Looking forward to your truck towing thread.

P.S. Ain't it great that you get a new truck!!! ;D )

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After much research on the trucks, I opted for the F150 3.5L V6 Ecoboost. Its one of Fords newest trucks. The specs are:

3.5L EcoBoost? Twin-Turbocharged V6

Max Tow Capacity: 13,200 pounds

Max Payload Capacity: 3,230 pounds

Seems to be more than enough to pull what I need.

You are right... Definitely not a bad thing to get a new truck out of it