Open neutral issue

djw2112 · Mar 17, 2019

According to my tester my outside receptacle (not on RV but on property) is showing open neutral. So i rechecked the wires inside the panel and they are all tight and none are broken. This is the first panel after the meter, so it is the main panel.

So according to the image below that i made showing my layout it could only be one of the following causing this:

1. The white neutral wire inside the receptacle has either broken or has come lose from the connection.
2. The GFI is bad.
3. The box itself for the receptacal has not been bonded to the receptacle with its own ground wire.

is that correct, its all i can think of to check?

lynnmor · Mar 17, 2019

You have a good handle on the problem, now go fix it in the order you listed. The neutral (white) wire could be knackered anywhere.

Great Horned Owl · Mar 17, 2019

#1 is the most probable cause. #2 might be possible, but probably not. #3 is not a possible cause. One additional possibility, is a bad tester.

Does anything connected to that circuit operate?

Joel

djw2112 · Mar 17, 2019

Great Horned Owl said:
#1 is the most probable cause. #2 might be possible, but probably not. #3 is not a possible cause. One additional possibility, is a bad tester.

Does anything connected to that circuit operate?

Joel

That is the only thing on that circut, ill take a normal outlet with me tomorrow and test that in place of the GFI to check. The tester is fine i just checked it on a good outlet here and seems to have no issues. I will also take some new 14/3 with me just in case i need to replace the wire, the wire does to through an elbow and it could have been broken in side during the pull.

Here is a pic of the actual connection in the panel, its the circut comming into the right sidewall of the panel. And also a pic of the outlet conduit and elbow out the side and to the outlet at the back of the post. Looking at the picture im wonding if it could be the white ground wire going to the stake in the ground could be not making connection, they screwed up everything else before i got there maybe they did that too.

On another note i dont know what kind of rock/gravel they used on the ground there (you can see it in the picture) but walking on it all day hurts my feet so bad i can hardly walk.

John From Detroit · Mar 18, 2019

IF you are using a 3 light tester on a GFCI or GFCI protected (down line from GFCI) Outlet it may show open GROUND (not neutral).. You should test a NON-GFCI outlet.

Why. The reason for the safety GROUND is to protect you in the event of a "HOT-Case" short
The job of a GFCI is to protect you in the case of a HOT-YOU short. (IE HOT-Case-YOU)

So the Safety ground is sometimes left open on a GFCI

Also if using a generator.. It may not have a ground at all.. And thats another way to protect you.

Gary RV_Wizard · Mar 18, 2019

If the neutral is truly open on a 120v outlet, it has no power, so the first question is whether the outlet works at all. Second, you verified that the wires are tight, but did you check to see if they are connected to the right terminals? Those light testers will give incorrect diagnostics if the wires are connected wrong, e.g. hot and neutral reversed or neutral & ground reversed. That's the simplest explanation.

In a standard 120v outlet, the white wires goes to the silver screw/terminal and the black to the brass/gold terminal.

Note that this is NOT the same condition as an open neutral on a 240v (4 wire) outlet. The symptoms will be different, even though the root cause is the same.

sightseers · Mar 18, 2019

what I've found most times with an 'open neutral' on a non working wall plug, is on the last good working plug the outgoing white wire has fallen out of the press-in receptacle connection.

djw2112 · Mar 19, 2019

I didnt get a chance yesterday to work on this, ill check it out and update this asap.

AStravelers · Mar 19, 2019

I would strongly recommend taking a multimeter along so you can check the actual voltages at various places along the wiring, rather than depending on an idiot light in the outlet.

djw2112 · Mar 19, 2019

AStravelers said:
I would strongly recommend taking a multimeter along so you can check the actual voltages at various places along the wiring, rather than depending on an idiot light in the outlet.

Thanks yes i always do, but i cant remember when i tested it last week if the outlet had power or not because i tested so many things that day. I think it did but i dont want to give wrong info here on the post so i want to make sure before i say so.

Great Horned Owl · Mar 19, 2019

If the outlet has power, then either the neutral is not open, ot the ground is connected where the neutral should be.

Joel

djw2112 · Mar 22, 2019

I finally got back over there today and did some light duty raking and painting before it rains tomorrow.

I took the GFI plug apart and it is hooked up correctly (black to hot side - neutral to white side)and nothing has come lose. I believe the GFI is bad because i get 120 volts at the wire connections on the plug but nothing when i test the plug receptical portion with my multi-meter. So ill pick up a new GFI next week sometime and fix it.

see pics

Great Horned Owl · Mar 22, 2019

I hate to ask the obvious, but did you press the reset button on the GFCI?

Joel

djw2112 · Mar 22, 2019

Great Horned Owl said:
I hate to ask the obvious, but did you press the reset button on the GFCI?

Joel

Its not a bad question at all as i would not put it past me to forget lol. However yes i did several times and the button had no reaction meaning it did not click, make a noise, or reset at all. I dont know how they go bad but i think this one is shot.

John From Detroit · Mar 23, 2019

I am strongly inclined to agree with your diagnosis on the GFCI.

djw2112 · Apr 6, 2019

Another costly valuable lesson learned today. I bought a new GFI for $20 and burned it up when i connected it. I forgot that GFI are not like normal plugs, both white and black on a GFI must be on the load side. I had one on load and one on line side and burned it up..... So im not gonna buy another one... it will be inside a waterproof cover with lid so no water will get in there so im just gonna put a normal plug in there. I tested a normal plug today at home after making me a test widget and it works so ill just use that.... I feel so stupid!!!

John From Detroit · Apr 6, 2019

I would not replace a GFCI with a NON GFCI.

djw2112 · Apr 6, 2019

John From Detroit said:
I would not replace a GFCI with a NON GFCI.

There was nothing to replace, i installed this originally, it was not there when i bought it, i added the outlet wiring. I already gave up one dr appointment to buy the GFI the first time i cant get another one. Ill have to get by and maybe replace it one day when i can. All im gonna use it for is my leaf blower thats all.

Also i forgot to say that i had an electrician look at the panel and the switch (thats how i found out how to hook it up right) and he said everything in the panel is perfect... but that i just hooked the GFI up wrong..

Jim18655 · Apr 6, 2019

Power should be connected to the LINE side of the GFCI. I've seen them connected to the load before and never saw one burn up because of the mistake. They usually just don't work right. You should also be buying one that is rated for outdoor use. It should have a "WP" designation on the device. They're made to withstand the dampness from being out in the weather.

sightseers · Apr 6, 2019

djw2112 said:
There was nothing to replace, i installed this originally, it was not there when i bought it, i added the outlet wiring. I already gave up one dr appointment to buy the GFI the first time i cant get another one. Ill have to get by and maybe replace it one day when i can. All im gonna use it for is my leaf blower thats all.

You'll be fine, Just don't use the leaf blower barefoot in a rain storm.

(IMO..as a 30 year IBEW electrician) The world did just fine before they ever had them, and GFI's have been nothing but trouble since the day they were invented.

Open neutral issue

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