30% off msrp ? when getting rv?

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SeilerBird said:
I am sorry I was not clear. I only buy used and only from a private party. Dealers are worthless scum no matter new or used.
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Hmm now I dont wanna go dealer lol. Is rvtrader good place to go to buy from private sellers? Craigslist is bit shady and I'm shocked how bad rvs they hike up there. (Some should be donated lol).

So do you do 30% from private sellers too?  Not sure how owners of used rvs price theres. I usually like when it says like female owned with not many years of having it. Not trying to be sexist but seems more cleaner and they abandoned ship for whatever reason
 
Gary RV_Wizard said:
Used RV prices vary widely.  Unlike autos, there is no stable, nationwide market that sets a benchmark price, plus there are sometimes large, legitimate differences by region, season, condition & options.  Remember that an RV is a house more than a vehicle, so factors like location & condition have a lot more impact.  Since there is no well-known market price and much less local competition, dealers are free to set prices however they like.

Much of this is our own (the buyers) fault. By focusing obsessively on discounts, we encourage dealers to price high and then offer a steep discount or sale price.  A higher asking price also lets the dealer offer attractive-looking trade-ins, a plus in a business where high depreciation makes actual trade values shockingly low. Try to ignore the asking price game and get to the bottom line, what it will cost you to get out the door.  Don't waste time trying to figure his asking price or add-ons.

Note that private sellers often also far off reasonable market values. They may not have researched prices and have an inflated idea what their RV ought to be worth, or they owe way too much money and are trying to get enough to pay off a loan.

Use the NADA RV Guide to get a rough ball park of the value. Check online sales sites for other asking prices, and check the actual selling prices shown at PPL's website. Those prices will be on the low side of average retail because they are actually private sales done via consignment, but it gives some factual data.

https://www.pplmotorhomes.com/sold-rvs
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Thank you that site is very helpful.
 
As newbies we begun our search on line and visiting 1/2 dozen dealer lots.  Quickly became obvious on new models the ?MSRP? was bs, every dealer had large placards showing a buy price (before negotiating) well below MSRP.  I quickly learned to look to their actual asking price & compare to my budget & features we thought we wanted.
  Looking at the private for sale market was different. Prices for similar units varied (not hugely).  Often my impression was private sellers based their asking prices on what their loan payoff is or some emotional factor (?my unit is special?).  In the private market other considerations may impact asking price - death of spouse, life changes, etc. 
  My retired job is boat broker and like with real estate there is an MLS where I can see asking prices and more useful actual transaction prices & time on market.  Useful but for boats (and guess RV) a much smaller data base universe than real estate.  Smart folks & good advice on this site, maybe somebody knows if a similar mls type system exists for RV
  Too add to comments by others:  do not focus on ?% discount?, instead use your research on what features, floorplans, quality you want and what your budget is.  Compare actual asking prices in dealer & private market.  Then when you find a unit you want you will have fairly good idea of its value. 
  And to me dealers unit cost (and like any business they have many other operating expenses) or private?s loan amount are their problem, not mine. 
 
This and forget about 30% off if you have a trade.
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You can still get a steep discount, but the amount of the trade value will be much less, basically the actual wholesale value of the trade.  That is usually shockingly low - few people realize how bad the depreciation is.  Typically, trade values are inflated by adding in part or all of the discount to make it look better.
 
When I was in sales, I found that most people think they should get retail for the trade and wholesale - 30% for the new one.  They thought payoff was something that somehow just happened. 

It just does not work that way. 

One salesman I knew did this.  He had worked the numbers out for a customer, and the customer wanted more.  It was already a skinny deal.He asked the customer how much profit he thought would be a fair deal, was told 10%.  So he then proceeded to show the cost of the unit plus things like a full tank of fuel, prepping, costs (detail, PDI etc,),  minus the actual cash value of the trade, plus the 10% for profit.  Came up with a number greater than the price he had presented.  He used pretty real numbers.  So then he asked, with this as the basis, you should be willing to pay this new larger number. 

What it really comes down to is a mutually acceptable figure that you are willing to pay for something that you want.  If you want to feel cool, use the MSRP and the the price paid and determine what that discount was.  If you want the dealer to be there and be able to service your rig later, don't expect him to lose money on your sale because you read on the internet you could take 30% off.
 
Your trade in value usually depends on how much the new unit cost. The more  the new unit cost, the more you get for your trade in. Up to a certain point. The best you can do is research what your trade in value is. Research what the new unit is going to cost and then go to a dealer and do the dance.

About twice a month I contemplate trading our TT in because we have a couple widows that leak. Seems folks can?t get a handle on the leaks. I look at floor plans and pick a few we like and go look. The cheaper units like Starcraft and Coachman turn me off as soon as walk in. They are so cheaply made. They are falling apart sitting on the lot. I look at Lance and Winnebago and think they are nice and better quality than the aforementioned. But these units are usually priced twice or three times as much as the cheaper models. I always come home and tell the wife we might as keep what we have.
 
Your trade in value usually depends on how much the new unit cost. The more  the new unit cost, the more you get for your trade in. Up to a certain point.
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That's what I was getting at about trade value and discount.  The true amount of the trade is the wholesale value of the RV, usually somewhere around 60% of retail value.  Anything more shown as trade-in value is simply a discount off the one you are buying, added to the wholesale value of the RV.  You can get it as "discount" or you can get it as "trade-in", but not both on the same deal.  Your actual trade-in value doesn't change with the price of the new one.  Discount + Trade is a zero sum calculation and the dealer is always selling for his  Asking Price minus (Discount + Trade-in).
 
Good question is, do you want high trade in or high discount? 

Here is a question, will you explain how the leaky windows that can't be fixed to the dealer you want to trade with, or let him figure it out for himself?

 
As I mentioned in an earlier post, I was at a dealer last week and the list price was $32,000. The dealer said my price would be in the low $20?s. About 30% less. He said we could discuss my trade in when and if I decided to buy. According to NADA my TT is worth between $12,000 and $14,000. Do I expect to get that much for trade in. No. I would start on the high end and not go below $10,000. Once the deal is made, papers signed, units exchanged, forget about it and have fun with you new RV.
 
PancakeBill said:
Good question is, do you want high trade in or high discount? 

Here is a question, will you explain how the leaky windows that can't be fixed to the dealer you want to trade with, or let him figure it out for himself?
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Well, I want both but that ain?t gonna happen. You just try to make a deal you can live with. High trade, low discount. High discount, low trade. Once it?s a done deal, don?t look back. Unless specially asked if there were any leaks I wouldn?t bring it up. If I was selling to an individual I would disclose the leaks.
 
And keep in mind, sometimes the internet price means that you are obtaining Financing through them.  That may or may not be to your advantage. Camping World is notorious for this tactic. 
 
Maybe this is kind of relevant to the conversation. Last new Peterbilt I bought in 2002 (2003 model) had MSRP of $148,000. I paid $98,500 including about $3,000 add ons that weren?t in MSRP. ( extended warranties on drive line, lights, chrome trinkets, and ect.)
 
Gary RV_Wizard said:
That's what I was getting at about trade value and discount.  The true amount of the trade is the wholesale value of the RV, usually somewhere around 60% of retail value.  Anything more shown as trade-in value is simply a discount off the one you are buying, added to the wholesale value of the RV.  You can get it as "discount" or you can get it as "trade-in", but not both on the same deal.  Your actual trade-in value doesn't change with the price of the new one.  Discount + Trade is a zero sum calculation and the dealer is always selling for his  Asking Price minus (Discount + Trade-in).
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Don't forget about sales tax and registration fees.  These are based on the selling price of the RV while your trade-in is part of the payoff.

If you inflate the RV's price to allow for a higher trade-in, you'll pay more sales tax than if the price was lower with less money for your trade-in.  And since many states set registration fees in proportion to the purchase price of the RV, you'll pay more here, too.
 
J32952 said:
As newbies we begun our search on line and visiting 1/2 dozen dealer lots.  Quickly became obvious on new models the ?MSRP? was bs, every dealer had large placards showing a buy price (before negotiating) well below MSRP.  I quickly learned to look to their actual asking price & compare to my budget & features we thought we wanted.
  Looking at the private for sale market was different. Prices for similar units varied (not hugely).  Often my impression was private sellers based their asking prices on what their loan payoff is or some emotional factor (?my unit is special?).  In the private market other considerations may impact asking price - death of spouse, life changes, etc. 
  My retired job is boat broker and like with real estate there is an MLS where I can see asking prices and more useful actual transaction prices & time on market.  Useful but for boats (and guess RV) a much smaller data base universe than real estate.  Smart folks & good advice on this site, maybe somebody knows if a similar mls type system exists for RV
  Too add to comments by others:  do not focus on ?% discount?, instead use your research on what features, floorplans, quality you want and what your budget is.  Compare actual asking prices in dealer & private market.  Then when you find a unit you want you will have fairly good idea of its value. 
  And to me dealers unit cost (and like any business they have many other operating expenses) or private?s loan amount are their problem, not mine.
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what hidden charges should I look for and how much are they usually. I know there is transport cost (which seems kind of bogus) and tax (which is inevitable).. anything else I should know of? It's always in fineprint but we don't see that usaully. (like you dind't see my spelling lol)
 
Nothing bogus about transportation costs from factory to dealership. It's a direct expense the dealer pays on top of his wholesale purchase cost.

Extra charges aren't really hidden cause they get listed on the sales proposal. They just remain unmentioned in advertising and blathering about discounts.  Some common ones include a "Dealer Fee" (car dealers have these as well), which is pure extra profit, and "Prep" or "Make Ready", which includes clean-up, testing of the RVs systems and repair of anything that is not up to spec, a walk-thru for the buyer and anything else that is needed to complete delivery.  The RV manufacturer included both profit and Prep cost in the MSRP. If the buyer demands a steep discount, the dealer may "give" them the money needed for those items and then list the cost as an add-on. The right hand giveth and the left hand takes away...
 
Gary RV_Wizard said:
You can still get a steep discount, but the amount of the trade value will be much less, basically the actual wholesale value of the trade.  That is usually shockingly low - few people realize how bad the depreciation is.  Typically, trade values are inflated by adding in part or all of the discount to make it look better.
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Yes, I agree and what I was alluding to. In a perfect world one might get both a 30% off MSRP and a high trade in value, but unless the dealer is terribly desperate, the percentage off MSRP is going to be offset by a lower trade in offer.
 
Do your homework first and decide what you are willing to pay before you walk in the door.  If buying from a dealer discuss the bottom line, total price with all charges included.  Then make sure that really is the total price on the contract. Dealers around here will keep you talking like you are their BFF and add $1000 to the price knowing most people don't really read the contract.  When you find it they'll say, oh that's right, my bad.  Another strange practice I don't understand is for them to give you way more than the NADA value on your trade in but not come down much on the selling price.  I'm actually ok with that because it's the difference between the two you are paying. Maybe they get a better deal from the manufacturer if they sell at retail?
 
When I purchased my Keystone Alpine, the NADA value was ~$51K.  There were a lot of options.  I offered I think $35K, and we eventually settled on a $38K price, and they 'threw in' a 4-year bumper-to-bumper $100 deductible warranty as I did not want to come up to $38K.  It cost the dealer ~$750, and by separating the RV price ($34K) and warranty ($4k) on the invoice, it made the cost of sales tax a bit less for me.

Look on RVrader, eBay, etc.  Look for one that is under NADA value, and offer less.  You will find some that are decent prices, and some that are 30% over NADA value.

You can see the date the RVs were listed on RVTrader.  Never pay full price for one that has been on the lot more than a month.

It took me ~6 months to find one, although I started about 6 months before I wanted to buy one.
 
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