1993 Fleetwood Pace Arrow - Help Me Decide

hello new friends,

I am 25f and I am looking to buy a used RV to tour with (I am in a band). I AirBnB my house on the weekends in Nashville, and I need an RV that I can use to haul my 10 lb dog, music gear and 4-5 twenty something year old dudes to our gigs on the weekends.

The plan is that having this RV will 'SAVE' me money in the long run because I won't have to pay for hotels for my band members and I can have a place to stay even on weekends that I don't have gigs with my dog and make money with AirBnB.

Okay --- I have found a 1993 Pace Arrow 37J RV Motorhome - it has 23k miles on it, was garage kept, it is extremely clean. The upholstery is in great condition. No signs of water damage, nothing major seems to be wrong with it. It really looks like we are living in 1998 or 2000 and it's only a few years old. Even the paint on the outside is in great shape. The dealership got it as a trade-in and they are telling me it is $15,000. The dealership is putting new rear tires on it and replacing the brakes. They went on and on about how they check everything on it, but I guess I'm feeling like it's too good to be true.

It has a Chevrolet Chassis - V8 engine - 454. It is 37'8" long and 11'3" high, 96" wide.

Although I grew up camping and my parents owned campers, they are now saying they aren't the ones to ask so.. Here are my questions;

How difficult will this be to drive? Am I realistically going to be able to drive this thing?

Is $15,000 too much money? If it is, how much should I offer?

What things can I expect to break on it in the near future? Air? Engine stuff? Idk

Are these things safe to drive? What happens if there is an accident? Will we all die?

How difficult will it be to convert the back bedroom into a bunk room? (Right now it has a queen bed in the rear, a front couch that turns into a bed and a dinette that they said turns into a bed, but I'm not sure that it does). Is there a rule on space between bunks? Do bunks have to be like front of Rv to back of RV or can they be side to side? Do you think I can do triple bunks with the bottom bunk being basically on the floor?

What kind of mileage does this thing get?

Will I be able to leave my dog alone in this RV during our gigs (4-5 hours). Do people do that and is it okay?

Is it a good thing that it has low miles? If so, what are the advantages to it having low miles especially with it being older than me?

alexaleary said:

hello new friends,

I am 25f and I am looking to buy a used RV to tour with (I am in a band). I AirBnB my house on the weekends in Nashville, and I need an RV that I can use to haul my 10 lb dog, music gear and 4-5 twenty something year old dudes to our gigs on the weekends.

The plan is that having this RV will 'SAVE' me money in the long run because I won't have to pay for hotels for my band members and I can have a place to stay even on weekends that I don't have gigs with my dog and make money with AirBnB.

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Buying an RV to save money is a joke. RVs cost a lot more to maintain and use than you would imagine. Especially if you have to pay a mechanic to work on it. They get over $100 per hour.

Okay --- I have found a 1993 Pace Arrow 37J RV Motorhome - it has 23k miles on it, was garage kept, it is extremely clean. The upholstery is in great condition. No signs of water damage, nothing major seems to be wrong with it. It really looks like we are living in 1998 or 2000 and it's only a few years old. Even the paint on the outside is in great shape. The dealership got it as a trade-in and they are telling me it is $15,000. The dealership is putting new rear tires on it and replacing the brakes. They went on and on about how they check everything on it, but I guess I'm feeling like it's too good to be true.

It has a Chevrolet Chassis - V8 engine - 454. It is 37'8" long and 11'3" high, 96" wide.

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Every used RV for sale makes basically the same claim. Before you buy it it is best to pay an RV inspector to inspect the RV.

How difficult will this be to drive? Am I realistically going to be able to drive this thing?

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I think they are very easy to drive. I much prefer driving any RV over any car. Yes you will most definitely be able to drive it.

Is $15,000 too much money? If it is, how much should I offer?

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That would be a reasonable price if everything was in perfect condition like they are telling you.

What things can I expect to break on it in the near future? Air? Engine stuff? Idk

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The roof will need to be resealed for sure. New tires if any are over 7 years old. Engine and A/C should be fine. The refer might cause problems.

Are these things safe to drive? What happens if there is an accident? Will we all die?

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Yes, they are very safe to drive. It is not the vehicle that makes any vehicle unsafe, it is the driver, especially ones who drive after drinking.

How difficult will it be to convert the back bedroom into a bunk room? (Right now it has a queen bed in the rear, a front couch that turns into a bed and a dinette that they said turns into a bed, but I'm not sure that it does). Is there a rule on space between bunks? Do bunks have to be like front of Rv to back of RV or can they be side to side? Do you think I can do triple bunks with the bottom bunk being basically on the floor?

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Any competent carpenter can do the job for you.

What kind of mileage does this thing get?

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Most all RVs get between 6 and 9 miles per gallon.

Will I be able to leave my dog alone in this RV during our gigs (4-5 hours). Do people do that and is it okay?

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The dog will make it safer since thieves generally don't bother to break into a vehicle that contains a dog. So long as it is not during the day time in hot weather the dog will be fine.

Is it a good thing that it has low miles? If so, what are the advantages to it having low miles especially with it being older than me?

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No that is not a good thing. It usually means the RV has not been used much and usually means it has not been serviced as often as it should be. All the rubber parts dry out if they are not used often enough, like seals in the trans and engine, fan belts, hoses, etc.

Where do I find a independent RV inspector?

If I'm paying for hotels for my band, it is $70-$140 per night per room (2-3 rooms). And they would be traveling either in a van or my Highlander with a trailer hitched to the back with gear. So I'm thinking that buying an RV might be cheaper in the long run. Plus we can drive longer stretches and they can be comfortable/ room for gear, etc. It's difficult to really know if it's cheaper I guess- but say I'm playing a show in Chicago - with an RV getting 9 mpg and gas at $2.45 - Our Gas bill for that show is almost $280. If I haul the guys in my highlander with a trailer behind - gas cost is about $175 plus cost of hotels --- another $300 probably. I'm at $475 for gas + hotel expenses. So I'm thinking that if I have an RV payment of about $300-$350 a month, I'm paying less than $90 a weekend to give the band a place to sleep. I'm just hoping that gas costs + maintenance costs for an RV won't outweigh those savings.

'So I'm thinking that if I have an RV payment of about $300-$350 a month, I'm paying less than $90 a weekend to give the band a place to sleep. I'm just hoping that gas costs + maintenance costs for an RV won't outweigh those savings. '
Forget financing on an old rv, no lender will touch it. From one who has owned two be prepared to spend a lot of time fixing the little things that go wrong on a rolling house or spending money and time at the shop. Then there is the risk of breaking down miles from a repair center. 6 of you touring in a motorhome? Tempers will get short with no privacy or personal space, trust me on this one.

Financial considerations seem to be driving your exploration.  May I suggest something else to consider?

Presumably your band plays for a few intense hours each performance.  Afterwards you can go somewhat your separate ways.  Do you all get along well enough to spend days on end in each other's company, in very close quarters?

Bands do it all the time.  Maybe yours can. 

Owning an RV comes with a whole new set of quirks, problems, systems to learn, and responsibilities.

Explore your options carefully.  Music is a tough business, so best of luck to you.

One thing to consider, RVs break down, especially older RVs no matter how well cared for. Items such as water pumps and alternators reach the end of their useful life. How devastating would it be for you to miss a gig, or even a couple, while you were broken down in the middle of nowhere?

Not saying an RV isn't a good idea for your situation - you might even find it more convenient not having to drive to accommodations after shows, stopping to eat when you want to etc. But things happen to mechanical objects and you need to be ready for that.

alexaleary said:

Where do I find a independent RV inspector?

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Craigslist or visit an RV service center and talk to a mechanic.

If I'm paying for hotels for my band, it is $70-$140 per night per room (2-3 rooms). And they would be traveling either in a van or my Highlander with a trailer hitched to the back with gear. So I'm thinking that buying an RV might be cheaper in the long run. Plus we can drive longer stretches and they can be comfortable/ room for gear, etc. It's difficult to really know if it's cheaper I guess- but say I'm playing a show in Chicago - with an RV getting 9 mpg and gas at $2.45 - Our Gas bill for that show is almost $280. If I haul the guys in my highlander with a trailer behind - gas cost is about $175 plus cost of hotels --- another $300 probably. I'm at $475 for gas + hotel expenses. So I'm thinking that if I have an RV payment of about $300-$350 a month, I'm paying less than $90 a weekend to give the band a place to sleep. I'm just hoping that gas costs + maintenance costs for an RV won't outweigh those savings.

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Where are you planning on parking this RV when you are at gigs? RV parks charge $30 to $60 per night. You can't just park and sleep anywhere, that is against the law in most places. And do not assume you can use the RV to haul all your band gear and band members. You would need a very big RV to do that. A 38 footer would be small for a band and all their instruments. You will need to figure out the weight of all your gear and people so you can find an RV that can handle the weight.

alexaleary said:

Are these things safe to drive? What happens if there is an accident? Will we all die?

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That is a VERY good question.  In a car, van or SUV you're belted into a seat and surrounded by a steel body that's been designed and extensively tested to provided maximum protection to the occupants during a crash.

This isn't the case in an RV.  Basically, you're driving a wood and tin shack down the road. There are no crash test requirements and you can expect the body to disintegrate around you if you hit anything or are forced off the road at highway speeds.

The only reason RVs have reasonable safety records is they're usually not driven very much so they aren't in many accidents.  Case in point is the 23,000 miles on that 24 year old RV.  This means it was on the road less than 1,000 miles a year over it's lifetime.

Here's a photo of a RV and trailer that lost control and rolled over while taking a Christian band to a gig.  Notice the floor and chassis of the RV upside down behind what remained of the RV's body.  Their band equipment was in the enclosed trailer that's missing it's roof.  Fortunately, everyone survived:

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1400/3519/files/Coa_1.jpg?5509481473239874114

Another consideration is the amount of weight (equipment and passengers) you can safely carry in a motorhome.
In most cases it's far less than you may think.

A 37 ft. motorhome is the maximum size a gas chassis can handle.  This means the RV by itself is heavier than a shorter one so there's less excess capacity for the weight of cargo and passengers.  The 1993 Chevy chassis used on the 37J has 1,700 lbs. less weight capacity than the equivalent Ford chassis so it's almost certain the Chevy will be severely overloaded by the time you load 6-7 people and all of the band equipment into it.

http://www.pacearrowclub.com/wp-content/uploads/pace-arrow-brochure-1993.pdf

Overloaded vehicles are more likely to break down, blow a tire or otherwise perform poorly on the road.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but if you're going to drive any distance to your gigs you really should use a different type of vehicle.

SeilerBird said:

Especially if you have to pay a mechanic to work on it. They get over $100 per hour.

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Tom, basically I agree with everything I edited out in your quote above, but every time I see this statement above it just torques me the wrong way.

The shop might get over $100/hour, but the actual mechanic makes $20-$40/hr...and that's if he can beat flat rate.
Don't understand flat rate?  Here's an article that explains it:

https://thinkprogress.org/the-harsh-reality-of-being-an-auto-mechanic-6779cd9d4843/

Gotta tell you, after raising 5 kids while working flat rate, now that I'm "retired", I make almost as much in 6 months of managing campgrounds(I manage a group of 18 campgrounds in the Eastern Sierras)as I ever did in a whole year of working at a Chevy dealer. 
You don't mechanic to get rich, you do it because you love to work on cars.

Sorry for the OT rant...I'm done now.

Old_Crow said:

Tom, basically I agree with everything I edited out in your quote above, but every time I see this statement above it just torques me the wrong way.

The shop might get over $100/hour, but the actual mechanic makes $20-$40/hr...and that's if he can beat flat rate.
Don't understand flat rate?  Here's an article that explains it:

https://thinkprogress.org/the-harsh-reality-of-being-an-auto-mechanic-6779cd9d4843/

Gotta tell you, after raising 5 kids while working flat rate, now that I'm "retired", I make almost as much in 6 months of managing campgrounds(I manage a group of 18 campgrounds in the Eastern Sierras)as I ever did in a whole year of working at a Chevy dealer. 
You don't mechanic to get rich, you do it because you love to work on cars.

Sorry for the OT rant...I'm done now.

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I worked as an auto mechanic for a few years when I was younger. I understand flat rate completely. The dealership charges $100 an hour and pays the mechanic $10 to $20 per hour. However if you call a mobile mechanic to your site he will charge at least $100 per hour. But I am telling a complete novice that getting mechanical work is expensive. How else could I say it so you don't get "torqued"? I was only a mechanic for a few years because it was obvious to me that one could starve being an auto mechanic so I switched to electrician.

My experience with RV and bands.
Three years ago I met a great group of musicians from California who where invited to perform SXSW in Austin. They had an older RV and it broke down in Fort Stockton, TX on Friday morning. The part for repair was not available locally and had to ordered from NAPA with a Monday delivery. Their performance was to be Saturday night and they where schedule to perform 2 bands before Asleep at the Wheel. They did not make the GIG.

That cost them more than they could possibly ever saved.

Let us assume you  play Chicago. Some where in the City. No overnight parking on City streets for an RV.  So at 1 AM or so you will have to find a place to go. How is that going to work when you guys are tired. Financing an older RV might be a problem from traditional  lenders and you will probably be charged an increased  interest rate to finance the deal.

Lots of good comments above. I think $15,000 for a 1993 Class A is an outrageous price (in a bad way). My first RV was a 1994 Class A (similar vintage and size), that I bought in 2007 for $12,000 and sold in 2012 for $8000. I cannot fathom how that same rig would be worth double that amount now. The math just doesn't work. NADAguides.com is a good place to start for RV values. A 1993 Pace Arrow 37J Chevy chassis is currently valued at $8550 (low retail) to $10,300 (high retail). That dealership saw you coming from a mile away. I bet they gave the previous owner $6-7k in trade... maybe.

My '94 was in pretty good functional condition when I sold it, but you have a HIGH likelihood of problems with something that old and with an unknown history. Even with new tires and brakes. Not to mention going into debt for it, and then when something happens that you cannot afford to fix... now you have no RV, and an extra bill to pay for nothing.

As a fellow musician, the idea sounds really cool... and if you want to try this RV thing for your band, it just might work out and eventually save money. But buy in cash and only AFTER you do a lot of research and have a good working knowledge of RV ownership and usage. That will greatly reduce your stress levels and improve your chances of success while on this journey.