RV Research

My wife and I rented a TT a few months back and have decided we?d like to get one of our own. However, as we?ve never owned one before we?re both a little anxious about it. I decided I would spend the next few months doing research so we could hopefully be more prepared to really start searching for the perfect TT this fall/winter. But it seems the more research I do the more questions I have.

The one thing we?re fairly certain of is that we?d like to get an expandable/hybrid TT. Having a 70+ lb dog and 3 young kids (1, 3 and 7) we love the extra space they provide. And my wife especially loves the tent camping feel when sleeping in the expandable beds.

I would greatly appreciate it if anyone could help clarify the following. I apologize in advance if some of these questions seem stupid but I?d rather be clueless on here than when we?re at a dealership trying to negotiate a purchase.

1. Price Negotiation ?

a. Many dealerships always advertise two prices ? MSRP and their ?awesome sale price? which is usually a lot less. Is it true that we can pretty much ignore the MSRP number? Obviously this paints a picture that they?ve discounted the price of the TT significantly already. But that?s not the case, correct?

b. I?ve read that it?s entirely possible to talk a dealership down in price by as much as 30%. Is this only for new RV?s? What about used ones? I know at a car dealership there usually seems to be a lot less price negotiating on their used vehicles than a new one. Is it the same for RV?s?

2. Warranties ?

Do RV?s come with some sort of manufacturer warranty like cars do? And is there any sort of lemon law type of protection for consumers that buy a used RV from a dealership?

3. Accessories ?

a. Do TT?s usually include all of the major accessories needed for camping? For example, sewer hoses & connectors, propane tanks, etc. Or does this have to be purchased separately?

b. When we rented the TT a few months back I installed a brake controller in our F-150 b/c the person that owned the RV required it. This got me thinking ? do all RV?s have trailer brakes? And, if so, are they all pretty much standard so they?d work with the brake controller I already installed? Or would trailer brakes be considered some sort of add-on or upgrade I?d need to ask for specifically?

c. I?m planning on buying a weight distribution hitch with sway bars. But I assume purchasing anything from a dealership is just like it is with cars ? you pay 5 times the price for something of lower quality than other places. Is that generally the case with RV dealerships also? If I should look for a hitch from a 3rd party seller, what things should I look for and keep in mind? Obviously, I want to make sure I get the right kind of hitch for the TT we buy.s

Again, many thanks in advance!

Step one is to determine how much weight your tow vehicle can handle when loaded down with passengers, and other expected cargo.  This will give you an upper limit on size of trailer to shop for, also you should not look at dry weight of trailers, the only time it will ever weigh this little is when you haul it off the lot.  Consider instead its loaded weight, along with the loaded tow capacity of your truck, and remember those kids will get bigger over time when calculating passenger weight.

New prices are highly negotiable and 15-30% off MSRP is common.  Be acreful about "MSRP" though, since there is no legally-required factory MSRP window sticker like there is on a car and dealers often display inflated list prices to make their deal look better.  Used asking prices, though, can be all over the map so trying to give a discount estimate is pointless.  Further, the NADA RV Guide is not a price bible as it is with cars - just a rough estimate.

As to NADA used values, the emphasis should be on rough

Isaac-1 said:

Step one is to determine how much weight your tow vehicle can handle when loaded down with passengers, and other expected cargo.  This will give you an upper limit on size of trailer to shop for, also you should not look at dry weight of trailers, the only time it will ever weigh this little is when you haul it off the lot.  Consider instead its loaded weight, along with the loaded tow capacity of your truck, and remember those kids will get bigger over time when calculating passenger weight.

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Thanks. From my calculations our trucks max towing capacity is 8,000 lbs. So I was planning on targeting a TT with the loaded trailer weight as close to (or below) 6,500 lbs.  I don't plan on taking it into the mountains any time soon but still don't want to push the truck's limits.

Gary RV_Wizard said:

New prices are highly negotiable and 15-30% off MSRP is common.  Be acreful about "MSRP" though, since there is no legally-required factory MSRP window sticker like there is on a car and dealers often display inflated list prices to make their deal look better.  Used asking prices, though, can be all over the map so trying to give a discount estimate is pointless.  Further, the NADA RV Guide is not a price bible as it is with cars - just a rough estimate.

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Great, thanks. Ideally we'd be targeting a used trailer since it seems to offer more bang for your buck and we don't want to overspend on our first RV. It's good to know used trailer prices probably aren't as negotiable as a new one would be. Unfortunately there aren't a lot of hybrid trailers for sale locally so I'll keep that in mind when looking. I'd hate to travel a decent distance to look at a trailer slightly outside of our price range only to find out they aren't willing to negotiate the price.

I'll echo the advice to really dial in your weight capacity first.
Do this based on your actual truck's configuration (look for the feature controls that define every spec and option, mine is a sticker on my glove box)..this confirms your rear end gear ration, engine and tranny options, etc...
then use taht info to look in your manual for charts regarding axle ratings, gross vehicle weight rating, & Gross combined
and get a real world actual weight on your truck (loaded with family and stuff like you would be when towing would be best)
Then you can figure out for real, what sort of tongue weight and total trailer weight you can tow.
don't go with what the salesman or the brochure tell you.

New units don't typically come with all the stuff.... but you might be able to get the dealer to through some of it in to sweeten the deal...

Regarding the brakes.... laws very by state as to what point they need brakes...but pretty much any will have brakes.  My old 10 ft box popup camper did not have them, and would not have been legal in some states.  It was small enough, but even then it would be an easy argument to make that it should have had them.

Do a lot of window shopping.  Nothing like going inside a few... RV shows are a great way to try on a lot of different models.
Imagine yourself holed up in the thing on a rainy day...where will you sit most of the time, imagine cooking dinner, where things would be stored, etc...  We knew fast if it worked for us or not.

Some comments about the hybrid types.... I agree about the canvas being a nice way to camp.  They also open up the space and views significantly.  I sometimes miss those canvas bunks
If you plan to always go to the woods it's great...but if you end up using it more like an "RV" when close to your neighbors for example...or when doing a quick overnighter, you might wish you had walls.
One thing I used to read a lot when I frequented popup forums, was with hybrids, consider how you might be able to sleep in what they call Turtle mode.... with the bunks closed up.  Like a quick overnight stop when you don't want to set up the bunk, for example.  Some models are good for this, other not. 
And then there's dealing with wet canvas when it rains the day you are packing up.

Not the same as a hybrid exactly, but similar in some ways....With our popup, we started by looking at it as if it were an upgraded tent.  eventually it became a low end RV.  At first I didn't mind all the work setting up and breaking camp, I grew to dread it.  now with our motorhome, we find that we more often are using it as a hotel room and not really camping....it's good and bad.  It's easier to just go inside if it's hot, or buggy and it's easier to overnight in a walmart parking lot or whatever....which has proven handy on trips...but we don't do campfires nearly as often as we used to.

Thanks for the input blw2. Definitely some good info in there and things I had not thought of. I'll definitely be sure to keep that in mind.

Not to beat this to death (I know there are tons of threads about prices, MSRP and negotiating already) but I wanted to put some numbers out there that I've found to see how others would handle the situation. Let me first clarify that I do NOT plan on making an offer on this particular RV. I'm just curious to see how other experienced RV owners would handle the scenario.

Trailer: 2019 Forest River Rockwood Roo 21SS

Info from dealer website:
MSRP: $32,141
Sale Price: $21,995

NADA Guide (base pricing):
Suggested list price: $31,862
Low retail: $20,100
High retail: $24,200

30% of NADA Suggested List Price ($31,862) would be a discount of $9558 which would be a sale price of $22,304.

30% of the MSRP the dealer provided ($32,141) would be a discount of $9,642 which would be a sale price of $22,499.

So based on these numbers the sale price is already discounted more than 30% of both the dealer-provided MSRP and the NADA suggested list price.

Given these numbers I'm curious what others would do in this situation. Would you be comfortable offering below the "Low Retail" value provided by NADA?

Again, I'm not planning on making an offer on this particular RV. I'm just looking to see how others would go about negotiating in this scenario.

The NADA values would be for a used one being re-sold (unusual for a 2019, but it happens). Still, a useful benchmark on MSRP vs actual value.

Yes, I would be comfortable paying the dealers sale price - there can't be much more wiggle room between what he paid for it and that price.  However, I would be very cautious about add-on fees from any dealer advertising an  ultra-low price to start with. He may well ask for fees for delivery prep, PDI, or a "dealer fee", all of which are normally included  in the MSRP.  His sale price may be a fiction, i.e. you can't take it home for that price + any gov't taxes.  You have to make a judgment based on the net price to get out the door.

The only things not included in the MSRP are delivery costs (factory to dealer) and any applicable taxes and government imposed vehicle fees (title). If the dealer charges extra for things that should be included, he is actually taking back part of the supposed discount.

Thanks. And are those additional fees unavoidable? Or is it entirely possible to negotiate not having to pay them?

In the big picture, just about anything is possible, but each dealer will have things he considers non-negotiable.  There is a lot more variation in policy among RV dealers than with car dealers, and you should not assume car-buying experience or advice will apply to an RV deal. They actually have very little in common.

The risk in driving too hard a bargain is that the dealer simply doesn't perform tasks that ought to be done.  For example, a conscientious dealer likely plans that a technician will spend 6-8 hours testing and prepping an RV for delivery, about $1000 worth of effort.  If he gets pushed into taking an extra $1000 off the price, he might cut that time to an hour or less, jut enough for a quick "eyeball check".  That's no sweat if everything in the RV is up-to-snuff, but if the RV came out of the factory with defects (very common), you get the hassle of a spoiled trip and returning to the dealer for warranty service.  Perhaps multiple times.  The most ethical and conscientious dealers probably won't cut prices so deep that a proper job cannot be done, but those dealers probably can't/won't beat the prices offered by a less-scrupulous store.

Cars come from the factory with a high and much more consistent level of quality than RVs, so this sort of thing is seldom a factor when buying a new car. Plus, the car makers have much greater control over their dealers and extensive state & federal car-buyer protection laws apply.

Only one comment about the tent/pop-up trailers.  We were told by a forest service ranger in Montana that they call them Snack Packs due to bears.  If you will be camping in bear country, realize that you will have to take all the precautions as if you were in a tent.  No food in the trailer and residual scents of food cooked in the trailer could also be an attractant.

Other than that - happy camping!

kportra said:

Only one comment about the tent/pop-up trailers.  We were told by a forest service ranger in Montana that they call them Snack Packs due to bears.  If you will be camping in bear country, realize that you will have to take all the precautions as if you were in a tent.  No food in the trailer and residual scents of food cooked in the trailer could also be an attractant.

Other than that - happy camping!

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Thanks for pointing that out. I don't think bears are a big problem here in NC but still definitely something to keep in mind.

You might be surprised, bear territory in the US has been spreading in recent years, I don't know about all of NC, but they do exist in the Great Smoky Mountain National Park.  There are some studies that suggest black bear populations in the eastern US have doubled since the year 2000, and brown bear territory is also expanding in recent years.

A few years ago there was a bear roaming a neighborhood in North Raleigh. Eastern North Carolina has far more bears than the mountains

Hmm. We may need to rethink the hybrid then. Don't want to risk getting mauled by a bear or limit our options as to where we can camp safely.

You could consider a hard sided pop up, some of them are getting very impressive.    See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUGMAAhdpi4 or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTfMw-eWeA0

There are definitely plenty of black bears in NC - had one in my yard last week (Black Mountain in WNC). How much risk they pose is a harder question to answer.  Most bears are no danger at all, but an angry or hungry bear can rip open most anything.
The Roo is hard-sided. It's a hybrid, with pop-out ends but a travel trailer body.

Gary RV_Wizard said:

There are definitely plenty of black bears in NC - had one in my yard last week (Black Mountain in WNC). How much risk they pose is a harder question to answer.  Most bears are no danger at all, but an angry or hungry bear can rip open most anything.
The Roo is hard-sided. It's a hybrid, with pop-out ends but a travel trailer body.

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Do you think a unit like a Roo would be safe against bears and other wildlife despite the canvas beds?

No RV is "safe" from wild life, there was a guy on another online forum a few months ago that had a racoon do nearly $20,000 worth of wiring damage to his class A motorhome while it was in winter storage.  See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epgYS3c53UE

Few things are foolproof, so "safe" is a risk judgment. Obviously the fabric pop-outs are less safe than hard walls, but I don't know how to assess the likelihood of danger.  Or your level of comfort with the idea.  If you find the idea of a bear roaming around your campsite to be scary, then a fabric-wall anywhere in the RV is probably not a good choice.  We've been around enough bears to be respectful without terror, so we probably would not worry much.

I'm reminded of an event that happened 20 years ago when we were work-kamping at a park in PA (Appalachian Mtns).  A young couple had borrowed a tent and were camping there.  They had been warned about bears, skunks, porcupines and raccoons getting at foods, but their kid left a box of snacks in the tent while they were swimming at the lake.  When they returned, a bear had torn the side of the tent open and ripped open the snack box. The woman was both angry and in tears because they would have to replace the expensive tent they had borrowed. As she cleaned up their belongings, the bear returned and poked his head inside. She was so mad she  screamed at him and punched him in the nose and the bear ran off. 

Two morals here: (1) Bears can be a major nuisance, and (2) they aren't necessarily fatal.