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Author Topic: Salesmen and the customer.  (Read 283 times)

Roy M

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Salesmen and the customer.
« on: July 11, 2019, 10:57:22 PM »
I test drove a new Ram 3500 Bighorn today, no intention of laying down almost 80 grand but ooooh was it ever nice. 8) Anyhoo, got to talking to the salesman about matching tow vehicles to the intended load. In British Columbia, vehicle sales people must be licensed by the motor dealer association and abide by a strict code of ethics. Curbers are required by law to get a licence and join the mda if they move more than five vehicles per year. If he knowingly sells a vehicle that is inadequate for the customer's stated purpose he can be reprimanded and fined, repeat offenses can result in loss of licence. Of course the caveat here is that the mda must be made aware of the offense either through customer complaints or accident reports.
He is quite knowledgeable about towing as he has a larger tt and the vehicle to match, he will not sell a 1500 to a guy that wants to pull a 12,000# fifth wheel even if it means losing the deal. Sounds like the gubmint is working hard to clean up a rather shady industry and instill public confidence. Some will fall through the cracks, the customer has to be responsible and honest with his/her expectations but it is a big step in the right direction.

John From Detroit

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Re: Salesmen and the customer.
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2019, 06:26:05 AM »
You covered the sale of the consist (A 12,000 pound 5er and tow vehicle) but what if you are jiust buying the 5er and already have the 1500 and wish to tow with it. and the saleman never even sees the truck till you hook up to go home because you drove your car to the dealership?

Or the old "Can my truck tow this" question.

My biggest comlaint is a small truck and a huge load tv ads  Those are killers.
Nothing adds excitement like something that is none of your business
My Home is where I park it.

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Salesmen and the customer.
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2019, 07:49:47 AM »
Canada does have better consumer protection laws than the US.

It's less formal in the US and the buyer would have to file a civil lawsuit complaint, but the salesman and the dealership can both be held liable for bad vehicle advice.  Any professional staff in the car & truck sales business is presumed to be knowledgeable about the product and that carries liability with it.   The difficulty is proving what they knew about the intended purpose and what they said (or didn't say) to the buyer. It typically boils down to one's word against the others.  Seldom does the buyer have a recorder on during the sales conversation and the only witness is likely to be a spouse.
Gary
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Gary Brinck
Summers: Black Mountain, NC
Home: Ocala National Forest, FL

darsben

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Re: Salesmen and the customer.
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2019, 10:14:50 AM »
It is almost impossible to sue because of a salesman's words the term is puffery and is allowed.
In addition any good sales contract will include the following clause;

IV. ENTIRE AGREEMENT
This Agreement contains the entire Agreement of the Parties regarding the subject matter of this Agreement, and there are no other promises or conditions in any other Agreement, whether oral or written.


I downloaded this from a legal website. I am willing to bet almost any auto sales contract contains the above provision.
So good luck on litigation
1990 Fleetwood Southwind on P30 chassis located in
Central NY in summer and beautiful Casa Grande AZ in winter

Roy M

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Re: Salesmen and the customer.
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2019, 11:01:42 AM »
You covered the sale of the consist (A 12,000 pound 5er and tow vehicle) but what if you are jiust buying the 5er and already have the 1500 and wish to tow with it. and the saleman never even sees the truck till you hook up to go home because you drove your car to the dealership?

Or the old "Can my truck tow this" question.

My biggest comlaint is a small truck and a huge load tv ads  Those are killers.
The key here is whether the salesman knew or ought to have known. If the customer is not up front with his/her expectations or upgrades the rv after the sale there is nothing the seller can do about it and cannot be held liable. When my buddy bought his fiver the saleswoman wanted to see his truck before she would start talking about trailers. He was impressed and bought from her, she was the first to do that. I don't know if rv sales people are bound by the mda rules.

steveblonde

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Re: Salesmen and the customer.
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2019, 05:19:21 PM »
now in BC they have a new law that says you need a special license if over 4600KG

owing a Recreational Trailer​
Towing a Recreational Trailer is a study guide for getting a house trailer endorsement. It's also useful to you if you tow any RV.

When do you need a house trailer endorsement?
House trailer endorsements are required on any class 4 or 5 driver's licence if you plan to tow a house trailer weighing more than 4,600 kg, fully loaded.

If your trailer or the towing vehicle has air brakes, you will also need to have an air brake endorsement and upgrade to a Class 1 driver's licence. OR YOUR INSURANCE IS VOID

https://www.icbc.com/driver-licensing/driving-guides/Pages/Towing-a-Recreational-Trailer.aspx
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2014 F150 Ecoboost Reg cab (company truck) daily driver
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Roy M

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Re: Salesmen and the customer.
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2019, 08:41:40 PM »
That has been around for some time but enforcement has recently stepped up. It's not the dealer's responsibiliy to check licences although courtesy and common sense would suggest the customer be made aware of the requirements.

Alfa38User

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Re: Salesmen and the customer.
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2019, 08:55:37 AM »
as an FYI for our USA friends: 4600KG  is about 10,140 lbs
« Last Edit: July 13, 2019, 08:57:38 AM by Alfa38User »
Stu
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Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Salesmen and the customer.
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2019, 10:18:37 AM »
Quote
It is almost impossible to sue because of a salesman's words the term is puffery and is allowed.
In addition any good sales contract will include the following clause;

IV. ENTIRE AGREEMENT
This Agreement contains the entire Agreement of the Parties regarding the subject matter of this Agreement, and there are no other promises or conditions in any other Agreement, whether oral or written.

I downloaded this from a legal website. I am willing to bet almost any auto sales contract contains the above provision.
So good luck on litigation

The gray area between "puffery" and "misrepresentation" is huge, and the source of many a lawyer's income. If the sales guy says the tires are good for years more use when in fact they are rotten baldies, it won't make any difference whether the sales contract says "as is" or not. But if they have the legal minimum tread and no glaring flaws, then his statement is probably considered "puffery" rather than misrepresentation.

Most civil courts will consider that a vehicle sales person has more product knowledge than the average buyer and thus "should have known" if the product is unsuitable or unsafe.  But if the buyer did not explain his expectations or if the sales guy did not misrepresent the facts, there is no grounds for a lawsuit.  Merely being unhappy with the deal or failing to ask reasonable questions isn't enough.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2019, 10:25:35 AM by Gary RV_Wizard »
Gary
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Gary Brinck
Summers: Black Mountain, NC
Home: Ocala National Forest, FL

darsben

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Re: Salesmen and the customer.
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2019, 11:22:17 AM »
The gray area between "puffery" and "misrepresentation" is huge, and the source of many a lawyer's income. If the sales guy says the tires are good for years more use when in fact they are rotten baldies, it won't make any difference whether the sales contract says "as is" or not. But if they have the legal minimum tread and no glaring flaws, then his statement is probably considered "puffery" rather than misrepresentation.

Most civil courts will consider that a vehicle sales person has more product knowledge than the average buyer and thus "should have known" if the product is unsuitable or unsafe.  But if the buyer did not explain his expectations or if the sales guy did not misrepresent the facts, there is no grounds for a lawsuit.  Merely being unhappy with the deal or failing to ask reasonable questions isn't enough.
Sorry you are wrong. I studied contract law. A contract is everything written on the paper nothing else is . Verbal representations will not withstand a written contract. That is the law. Now you may get a progressive court that tries to make law instead of enforce law but the clause I mentioned is iron clad. Many a lawyer may make money fighting the law but not many if any will ever win the lawsuit. They will just suck the client dry.
1990 Fleetwood Southwind on P30 chassis located in
Central NY in summer and beautiful Casa Grande AZ in winter