What would you do with these fluid sample results?

jphilsousa · Aug 14, 2019

The saga continues on our planned purchase of the 2007 Country Coach Tribute 260. The physical inspection went relatively well but not so much with the fluid samples.

Based on the reports that I've attached, what would be a good course to take with regard to this coach? Run away? Know that buying something 12 years old is going to have some issues anyway?

In regard to the coach oil sample, the seller had the coach stored in a storage facility and was bringing it out to a parking lot to show it. It's been for sale all this year so it probably came out quite a few times and driven just a short distance. Could that be the reason for the SIGNIFICANT amount of fuel in the oil?

I look forward to hearing the views of forum members.

Thanks,

Dave

Gary RV_Wizard · Aug 14, 2019

That's a tough one. Repeated cold starts without warming the engine thoroughly certainly could cause fuel to leak past the piston rings. Whether that is the case or not is anybody's guess.

One of the faults with a single oil analysis is that these kinds of things can show up but there is no context to fit them to. Fluid analysis is best with multiple samples over time. Normally you would change the il, use the coach for 3-6 months and then take another sample and observe the trend. You don't have that luxury before you have to put money down or walk.

Jim Godward · Aug 15, 2019

Gary is right.
The only way to be sure in a short time is to drive the coach at highway speeds for over an hour or more. Take a sample and have it checked. By doing this you will get the oil hot and drive out the fuel residue. Not sure the seller will go for it though.

jphilsousa · Aug 15, 2019

Thanks for the replies. It certainly is a sticky wicket. (This is particularly appropriate for this Yank turned Aussie watching England vs Australia in the Ashes test cricket at the moment ;D)

My buddy and I might be willing to take a chance on the unit still if there were a significant reduction in the price. It would be a gamble for both the buyer and seller. Based upon the fluid reports, what do you think would be a fair compromise, based upon the current sale price of $90,000?

The seller is using a broker to help sell the unit. We sent a copy of the report to the broker. If we don't decide to go through with the purchase, is the broker legally required to tell future potential buyers about the lead in the transmission and the fuel in the engine oil? Probably wouldn't do it but if the broker and seller had a conscience, it might give us leverage with a re-negotiated price.

cerd · Aug 15, 2019

They aren't obligated to tell future buyers anything. If they will let you, bring it to a shop and ask them to do a leak down test and use an inspection camera on each cylinder. If they can't detect a leak, pressures are good, and the cylinders look good, its probably residual as Gary said. In winter, even I run out and start the rig for about 30 mins every month to make sure the batteries are staying topped off. That's probably what they were doing and may cause excess fuel in the oil. That's also why I change my oil before every season instead of at the end.

jubileee · Aug 15, 2019

This post reminded me of a discussion with friends a couple of years back. Why aren?t diesel powered rv?s dyno tested before sale? If I was buying a high end one I would request it.
I was in the trucking business for over 50 years, bought and sold many many diesel powered trucks and if the was any power train questions, ( buying or selling) trucks were ran on dyno. Engine and driveline health could be determined quickly and you have a print out for the engine. Last one I did 6-7 years ago was under $400 at Cat shop.
I know Banks Power does for it product testing purposes. Maybe it?s more common than I?m aware.
Just curious. Apologies for side tracking thread. I will comment on fluid samples and buying and selling. IMO, they don?t carry much weight unless there is a long history (like from new) presented.

Gary RV_Wizard · Aug 15, 2019

is the broker legally required to tell future potential buyers about the lead in the transmission and the fuel in the engine oil?

That would depend on the laws in the state where the sale transaction takes place. Most states, however, would not require full disclosure of any known facts. Some require it of registered vehicle dealers but not private sellers. I'm not sure how a broker would fit into that, but probably exempt.

That is distinct from the owner or broker saying "There is nothing wrong with it" when in fact he knew there was. If someone bought it and there was a subsequent engine failure, he could sue for misrepresentation (fraud) if it could be shown that the seller in fact did know of a problem. That's a civil lawsuit for damages, not a violation of state or federal law.

Gary RV_Wizard · Aug 15, 2019

I guess I would want to change the oil and tranny fluid and then run it at highway speeds for an hour or so and re-test the fluids afterwards. If no new contamination shows up, I'd probably take the risk.

Jim Godward · Aug 15, 2019

I think this is a good recommendation and only regret I didn't think of it when I wrote my previous comment.

Gary RV_Wizard said:
I guess I would want to change the oil and tranny fluid and then run it at highway speeds for an hour or so and re-test the fluids afterwards. If no new contamination shows up, I'd probably take the risk.

Isaac-1 · Aug 15, 2019

A leakdown test should show if this is being caused by actual blow by, vs repeated cold starts and idling without the engine getting up to temperature, etc.

jphilsousa · Aug 15, 2019

Thank you all. The coach is going to the local Cat dealer next week for a look see. I will post the results of that for those interested parties.

Utclmjmpr · Aug 16, 2019

Why did you think you had to post this on several different chat boards??Don't you think if you get 20 different OPINIONS you will have 20 different things to worry about.>>>Dan

Gary RV_Wizard · Aug 17, 2019

Seeking a consensus?

Utclmjmpr · Aug 17, 2019

A consensus of non-professional opinions. It's been so obvious to me over time that in so many cases the opinions given are not from personal experience,, but many times just something the responder has heard on the various chat boards...>>>D

Dragginourbedaround · Aug 17, 2019

jphilsousa said:
The seller is using a broker to help sell the unit. We sent a copy of the report to the broker. If we don't decide to go through with the purchase, is the broker legally required to tell future potential buyers about the lead in the transmission and the fuel in the engine oil? Probably wouldn't do it but if the broker and seller had a conscience, it might give us leverage with a re-negotiated price.

I think that only applies to real estate sales.

Utclmjmpr · Aug 17, 2019

Who knows??,,the broker could even be the sellers son in law.>>>Dan :

jphilsousa · Aug 17, 2019

Why did you think you had to post this on several different chat boards??Don't you think if you get 20 different OPINIONS you will have 20 different things to worry about.>>>Dan

I posted this here and on iRV2. Didn't think that was overkill considering I need opinions quickly since we have to make a decision to go ahead with the purchase or walk away this week after the Cat dealer inspection. I have absolutely no expertise in these matters and it appears that this is the best place to draw on the experiences of others. And I have gotten some very good input on both forums.

Sorry if I offended you by posting twice. Am sure there is some crossover of members on these forums, but am fairly certain that there are unique members to each.

Seeking a consensus?

Exactly.

Who knows??,,the broker could even be the sellers son in law.>>>Dan :

I have no idea what this means or how it affects the situation. In any case, the broker is the seller's agent and looking out for the best interests of the seller, whether a relative or not.

Gary RV_Wizard · Aug 18, 2019

A consensus of non-professional opinions. It's been so obvious to me over time that in so many cases the opinions given are not from personal experience,, but many times just something the responder has heard on the various chat boards...>>>D

So very true and it can be difficult to extract the wheat from the chaff, but asking doesn't hurt and there is often a helpful answer or two somewhere in the mix. One has to remember that these forums are social media as well as help sites and that some responders may more interested in the sound of their own voice than your problem.

Inquiring or even searching the Internet is like drinking from a fire hose. The volume and variety of information is at the same time its great strength and horrible weakness. ???

SargeW · Aug 18, 2019

Don't worry about over posting on different forums. Just as long as you keep in mind that "opinions are like armpits. Everyone has them, and some of them stink". But then there are guys like Gary (above) that have a great deal of experience and wisdom, and his advice is often golden.

In the end it's your decision, and buying anything used is always a gamble. Some previous owners are meticulous and treated their property with great care and spared no expense to keep it in like new condition, and some skimped on every turn, and just wanted to get rid of it. It's your job to figure that out.

jphilsousa · Aug 30, 2019

The saga on the Country Coach Tribute is over and we're on to a new search. Seller took the coach to a Cat dealer and had engine oil only changed. Ran it for a few miles and resampled. It came back clean but from what I had read on different websites, the testing companies wanted a minimum of 500-600 miles with 1000 miles being preferable before retesting. And the seller didn't want to do any other kind of testing for injector or ring issues.

I guess the kicker was that it was stated in their advertising for the coach that everything had been serviced regularly and recently and nothing had to be done. Along the line we found that the engine oil hadn't been changed in 5 years. Too many inconsistencies and whiffs of neglect, so we decided to take a pass.

Thank you all for your input on this. Am sure I will have more questions as the search continues.

What would you do with these fluid sample results?

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