rvupgradestore.com Composet Products Fridge Defend
RV Life Magazine RV Park Reviews RV Trip Wizard

Author Topic: Best way to learn guitar for beginners  (Read 1692 times)

SeilerBird

  • ---
  • Posts: 14525
Re: Best way to learn guitar for beginners
« Reply #30 on: October 20, 2019, 06:03:39 PM »
That’s what I was thinking about. Doesn’t take much room and easily transported.
Then go for Gator, you are never too old and it is dirt cheap. Tons of free lessons on YouTube and the net. Do a search on beginning piano lessons.

Larry N.

  • ---
  • Posts: 6295
  • Westminster, CO
Re: Best way to learn guitar for beginners
« Reply #31 on: October 20, 2019, 06:18:58 PM »
For the record I never said that just learning songs was wrong. I just mentioned there are two ways to learn and most people just learn songs and don't learn music theory. Nothing wrong with that. That is how the Beatles started.
True -- I was just clarifying which I am. Thanks for an excellent description I could use.
Larry and Mary Ann N.
2016 Newmar Ventana 3709 -ISB6.7 XT 360HP
2015 Wrangler Sahara Unlimited toad
Formerly: Trailmanor 2720SL, Bounder, Beaver
  de N8GGG

SeilerBird

  • ---
  • Posts: 14525
Re: Best way to learn guitar for beginners
« Reply #32 on: October 20, 2019, 06:21:07 PM »
To be clear I started just learning songs. A few years late I was frustrated with my progress so I started taking music classes at college. I took piano, guitar, violin and viola.

Tom

  • Administrator
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 47466
  • Celebrating 25 years of The RV Forum online.
    • RV Forum web site
Re: Best way to learn guitar for beginners
« Reply #33 on: October 20, 2019, 06:49:26 PM »
I've always been able to reproduce a tune vocally after hearing it. When I joined a barbershop chorus 20 or so years ago, it frustrated me to see some folks pick up a music score and 'sing the notes on the paper'. This caused me to buy my first keyboard, take keyboard lessons, and teach myself to read music.

The (my) objective was to correlate what I saw on a score with what was coming out of my mouth. After a few (?) years, I was no closer to being able to do this, so I quit trying. I can read a music score, understand some music theory, but still sing what I hear.

I don't use music theory to create or learn a chord, but my ears immediately tell me if I played a correct chord or hit a clunker.

Meanwhile, from my message in another topic:


Reminds me of arriving in Hong Kong on one of my multi-country hops, checking into the hotel at 10pm. I dragged my colleague down to the bar to unwind from the travel, and we were entertained by 3 Filipinos, 2 female singers and a male keyboard player. I noticed the girls, both excellent singers, reading from large hard-covered ledger books. During their break, the 3 entertainers joined us at the table, and I just had to ask if I could see the contents of one of the books that they were literally clutching tight. The lyrics of very song were handwritten phonetically, and they explained they wrote them while listening to songs on the radio, and they just wrote down what they heard.


What I take away from all the above is that we all learn in different ways, and some/many of us don't have the talents and knowledge of most musicians.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2019, 06:51:13 PM by Tom »
Tom.  Need help? Click the Help button in the toolbar above.

SeilerBird

  • ---
  • Posts: 14525
Re: Best way to learn guitar for beginners
« Reply #34 on: October 20, 2019, 06:58:10 PM »
I remember when I was a sophomore in high school. I played drums in a band with two guitar players. One night we went to the movie theater together to see a film that was about an hour of the latest English groups each playing one of the biggest hits. But no Beatles. They had the Zombies, the Honeycombs and the Animals among others. The Animals played House of the Rising Sun and we all wanted to learn how to play it. We didn't have a pad and pen with us so as the song played we shouted out the chords. Am, C, D, F, Am, C, E. We repeated it all the way home. But I was very frustrated since I could not pick it fast enough. I did not realize at the time that it was two guitars that sounded like one.

Tom

  • Administrator
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 47466
  • Celebrating 25 years of The RV Forum online.
    • RV Forum web site
Re: Best way to learn guitar for beginners
« Reply #35 on: October 20, 2019, 07:14:55 PM »
Quote
... as the song played we shouted out the chords. Am, C, D, F, Am, C, E.

That's something I have no clue how to do. What's more, when I play (aka strum) a tune on a uke or guitar, my ears tell me a chord change is coming, but I have no clue which chord without looking at a lead sheet. I've learned to play some tunes from memory, but it took me strumming each chord until my ears told me it wasn't a clunker, then on to the next chord.

The only improvement on this "learning method" is if I play a known chord progression (e.g. C-Am-F-G7 or I-vi-IV-V). Even then, a progression can change part way through (e.g. for a bridge or a refrain), and I'm back to relying on my ears to detect the clunkers  :(
Tom.  Need help? Click the Help button in the toolbar above.

Tom

  • Administrator
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 47466
  • Celebrating 25 years of The RV Forum online.
    • RV Forum web site
Re: Best way to learn guitar for beginners
« Reply #36 on: October 20, 2019, 09:32:27 PM »
Signing (not singing) a song ...

This special group of kids performed a unique rendition of the Welsh national anthem:

https://www.facebook.com/bbccymrufyw/videos/2377537809230866/?t=4
Tom.  Need help? Click the Help button in the toolbar above.

8Muddypaws

  • ---
  • Posts: 2912
Re: Best way to learn guitar for beginners
« Reply #37 on: October 20, 2019, 11:22:32 PM »
Sorry for arriving to this so late.  I was playing a celebration of life gig yesterday.

I started out with a $20 Sears Silvertone.  It was an instrument of torture to play.  I was young & stupid enough to buy a second Silvertone.

Guitars:  cheap ones are generally harder on your hands and do not sound as good.  Simple answer:  expect to pay more than you expected.   ;D  If you do buy an inexpensive one have the shop do a setup.  If you buy an expensive one too!  I bought a $700+ Taylor GS Mini and had to spend an additional $50-$75 to have it set up the way I wanted.

Guitar Brand:  I’m partial to Taylor but I was perfectly happy with a Takamine.  I eventually had two of them.  I still have a Yamaha classical that I bought more than 35 years ago. 

Think about getting a classical guitar.  Nylon strings are easier on the fingers and it will have a wider neck.

Theory:  the problem is that most people find learning theory to be just plain boring.  Especially on the guitar.  It can be completely overwhelming.  Learning songs is easier and more gratifying.  Especially if you sing and want to accompany yourself.

There are so many online teachers!  It’s a jungle out there.  I’ve watched a bunch of videos produced by ‘Steve Stein’.  He seems to have struck a good balance between teaching theory and teaching songs.  His website is www.guitarzoom.com but I suggest you watch some of his lessons on YouTube first.

Another good one is www.guitarcontrol.com

Of the two I prefer Guitarzoom.  I just like his style more.

I highly recommend that you look around for a live teacher to get you started.  I didn’t and I suffered because of it.  Check craigslist, music stores, even adult Ed at high schools and colleges.

Bedtime!  I was up late last night.
Retired computer professional
Musician, songwriter,  mediocre guitar player.
2006 Bounder 34H, 2008 CR-V Toad

SeilerBird

  • ---
  • Posts: 14525
Re: Best way to learn guitar for beginners
« Reply #38 on: October 21, 2019, 03:10:54 AM »
That's something I have no clue how to do. What's more, when I play (aka strum) a tune on a uke or guitar, my ears tell me a chord change is coming, but I have no clue which chord without looking at a lead sheet. I've learned to play some tunes from memory, but it took me strumming each chord until my ears told me it wasn't a clunker, then on to the next chord.

The only improvement on this "learning method" is if I play a known chord progression (e.g. C-Am-F-G7 or I-vi-IV-V). Even then, a progression can change part way through (e.g. for a bridge or a refrain), and I'm back to relying on my ears to detect the clunkers  :(
We were able to see the guitar players hands and we were shouting out the chords we saw, not heard. That is one thing a lot of guitar players do is study other guitar players hands to see how they are getting the sounds they get. Especially someone like Jimi Hendrix.

Tom

  • Administrator
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 47466
  • Celebrating 25 years of The RV Forum online.
    • RV Forum web site
Re: Best way to learn guitar for beginners
« Reply #39 on: October 21, 2019, 10:35:49 AM »
Quote from: SeilerBird
We were able to see the guitar players hands and we were shouting out the chords we saw, not heard.

That I know how to do, and I'll occasionally look at our Maestro's left hand at uke practice, but it's not always possible to see what's going on. I'll sometimes mentally extrapolate from the fingers I can see, and think he must be playing a 'x' chord. OTOH if he's switching fast, I can't process it fast enough.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2019, 10:38:09 AM by Tom »
Tom.  Need help? Click the Help button in the toolbar above.

SeilerBird

  • ---
  • Posts: 14525
Re: Best way to learn guitar for beginners
« Reply #40 on: October 21, 2019, 10:42:46 AM »
Well HOTRS is a five minute song and the photography was very unimaginative. Not the fast cutting crap you see today and there were three of us so we were able to figure it out. I am glad we did since it is such a cool song and so much fun to play. I have tried it on the organ and failed miserably. I am going to have to get serious about that.

PopPop51

  • ---
  • Posts: 395
    • Uptown Tech
Re: Best way to learn guitar for beginners
« Reply #41 on: October 21, 2019, 12:12:13 PM »
This is a wonderful thread.
Like so many other high-schoolers of the '60s I bought a guitar and tried to learn informally how to play it, with a Mel Bay book and an LP titled "Play Guitar With the Ventures". I had no formal music training, and neither time nor money for lessons. Of course I maxed out at about a dozen songs before I dropped it for other interests, but I have some nice memories of a group of us hanging out in the evenings, trying (and for the most part failing) to figure out how to make that great music.
Paul--
2004 Ford Excursion V-10 ("Moose")
2010 Keystone Outback 270BH ("Squirrel")
2016 Mazda MX5 Miata ("Roadster")
##40 States So Far...##

SeilerBird

  • ---
  • Posts: 14525
Re: Best way to learn guitar for beginners
« Reply #42 on: October 21, 2019, 12:20:57 PM »
This is a wonderful thread.
Like so many other high-schoolers of the '60s I bought a guitar and tried to learn informally how to play it, with a Mel Bay book and an LP titled "Play Guitar With the Ventures". I had no formal music training, and neither time nor money for lessons. Of course I maxed out at about a dozen songs before I dropped it for other interests, but I have some nice memories of a group of us hanging out in the evenings, trying (and for the most part failing) to figure out how to make that great music.
I had that record in the 60s. I did manage to learn both the rhythm and lead parts to Walk Don't
Run. It was easy. Later I found out why it was easy. They dumbed down the lead part so even a hack like me could play it. The last band I was in I suggested that we do the song and every one in the group loved it. I didn't even have to relearn it since it was so easy to play the way it was dumbed down. The best part was the rhythm guitar. It starts Am-G-F-E over and over. After learning it I found out I was playing it wrong. It was barre chords so I relearned it and in the process learned barre chords. I was thankful for that forever more.

Back2PA

  • Photo moderator
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 5121
Re: Best way to learn guitar for beginners
« Reply #43 on: October 21, 2019, 12:34:25 PM »
Well HOTRS is a five minute song


it is such a cool song and so much fun to play.


HOTRS?  ???
Scott
2014 Montana High Country 343RL (37')
2011 SD F-250 Crewcab LB 4x4, 6.2 Gas, 10K gross
Eezrv TPMS
Fulltimer

SeilerBird

  • ---
  • Posts: 14525
Re: Best way to learn guitar for beginners
« Reply #44 on: October 21, 2019, 01:13:06 PM »
Quote
HOTRS?  ???

I remember when I was a sophomore in high school. I played drums in a band with two guitar players. One night we went to the movie theater together to see a film that was about an hour of the latest English groups each playing one of the biggest hits. But no Beatles. They had the Zombies, the Honeycombs and the Animals among others. The Animals played House of the Rising Sun and we all wanted to learn how to play it. We didn't have a pad and pen with us so as the song played we shouted out the chords. Am, C, D, F, Am, C, E. We repeated it all the way home. But I was very frustrated since I could not pick it fast enough. I did not realize at the time that it was two guitars that sounded like one.

Back2PA

  • Photo moderator
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 5121
Re: Best way to learn guitar for beginners
« Reply #45 on: October 21, 2019, 02:18:50 PM »
OK, I get it. I ran out of room for additional acronyms about 10 years ago. One comes in, one's gotta go
Scott
2014 Montana High Country 343RL (37')
2011 SD F-250 Crewcab LB 4x4, 6.2 Gas, 10K gross
Eezrv TPMS
Fulltimer

8Muddypaws

  • ---
  • Posts: 2912
Re: Best way to learn guitar for beginners
« Reply #46 on: October 21, 2019, 06:32:03 PM »
HOTRS was the very first song I ever played in a coffee house.  I played it at rip tempo ‘cause I was so nervous.  I probably played it in less than 2 minutes. 

Want long songs?  Try some Harry Chapin.  Sniper.  The Rock Is Gonna Fall On Us.

Retired computer professional
Musician, songwriter,  mediocre guitar player.
2006 Bounder 34H, 2008 CR-V Toad

msw3113

  • ---
  • Posts: 193
Re: Best way to learn guitar for beginners
« Reply #47 on: October 21, 2019, 06:58:28 PM »
Another memorable, and easy to learn/play song, was "Gloria" by Them.  Three chords, none barred. 
No matter how bad the band, kids always danced to it. 
09 Carriage Cameo 32 SB2
11 Silverado K3500 HD LB DRW

SeilerBird

  • ---
  • Posts: 14525
Re: Best way to learn guitar for beginners
« Reply #48 on: October 21, 2019, 07:23:21 PM »
Another memorable, and easy to learn/play song, was "Gloria" by Them.  Three chords, none barred. 
No matter how bad the band, kids always danced to it.
That was the very first song I learned in 1965 while it was still a hit. I must have played EDA about ten million times in my lifetime. The last band I was in we played it. I loved singing it because of the call and response. That is way too cool. One time I adlibbed right after the line 'then she comes to my room' I added 'she takes out her false teeth and gums me to death'. Killed the band. If you want to torture yourself here is a clip of the clean version.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_vZF6_ChElTdDVUTWZVQjBKYlU/view?usp=sharing

Back2PA

  • Photo moderator
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 5121
Re: Best way to learn guitar for beginners
« Reply #49 on: October 21, 2019, 07:40:00 PM »
Three chords, none barred. 


Barred?
Scott
2014 Montana High Country 343RL (37')
2011 SD F-250 Crewcab LB 4x4, 6.2 Gas, 10K gross
Eezrv TPMS
Fulltimer

msw3113

  • ---
  • Posts: 193
Re: Best way to learn guitar for beginners
« Reply #50 on: October 21, 2019, 08:08:39 PM »
It was barre chords so I relearned it and in the process learned barre chords. I was thankful for that forever more.
Barre chords are made by firmly placing the index finger across all six strings on a single fret, like a "bar,"  while remaining fingers press strings on other frets higher than the barre.  Barre chords require hand strength and agility which takes plenty of practice to develop.  The player can make the same chord at more than one place on the guitar's neck.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2019, 08:10:36 PM by msw3113 »
09 Carriage Cameo 32 SB2
11 Silverado K3500 HD LB DRW

8Muddypaws

  • ---
  • Posts: 2912
Re: Best way to learn guitar for beginners
« Reply #51 on: October 21, 2019, 09:51:30 PM »
Barre chords are easier for me than playing a C major in first position.  That chord played for any length of time really hurts because 40 something years ago I broke all 4 metacarpal bones in my left hand.  Quite often I will play it for a few seconds and then switch to an alternative, my favorites being 332033  (Looks like a G, sounds like a C) or an A chord shape barred on the third fret, 335553.  I thought I would never be able to play again after the accident.  The first couple of years after we’re quite painful.  I adapted my ‘style’ to fit my limitations in that area.

This video is about soloing using the CAGED system but he does a good job explaining how chords work up the neck.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Qp26KcDrGw. If you get nothing else out of it admire the see through fingers.   8)

Retired computer professional
Musician, songwriter,  mediocre guitar player.
2006 Bounder 34H, 2008 CR-V Toad

SeilerBird

  • ---
  • Posts: 14525
Re: Best way to learn guitar for beginners
« Reply #52 on: October 22, 2019, 03:07:51 AM »

Barred?
In the 70s I fell in love with playing along to China Grove which uses almost all barred chords including the hard to play 7th position E, which is 079997. I usually played it 779997. I got very good at the song but I could never even come close to playing the lead. I noticed most of the tutorials for the song play it simpler than I did. They used power chords for the E - 079900. The way I play the chord is with two fingers. My index barres the 7th fret and my ring finger barres the 9th fret D G B strings.

https://youtu.be/JU-pzSP0DTY

It is outrageously fun to play.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2019, 03:28:22 AM by SeilerBird »

Tom

  • Administrator
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 47466
  • Celebrating 25 years of The RV Forum online.
    • RV Forum web site
Re: Best way to learn guitar for beginners
« Reply #53 on: October 22, 2019, 09:38:47 AM »
I came to the conclusion some time ago that some of this stuff is anatomically impossible for me  >:(
Tom.  Need help? Click the Help button in the toolbar above.

SeilerBird

  • ---
  • Posts: 14525
Re: Best way to learn guitar for beginners
« Reply #54 on: October 22, 2019, 02:35:43 PM »
I came to the conclusion some time ago that some of this stuff is anatomically impossible for me  >:(
Tom - every musician has limits, things that other people do with ease that you could never do. I watch Joe Satriani with my jaw on the ground. I can do nothing he does. Watch just the first minute of this tutorial.

https://youtu.be/DDWRYKSIIhE

Tom

  • Administrator
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 47466
  • Celebrating 25 years of The RV Forum online.
    • RV Forum web site
Re: Best way to learn guitar for beginners
« Reply #55 on: October 22, 2019, 02:46:17 PM »
Even watching his subsequent breakdown, I'm saying to myself "not in this lifetime"  :(
Tom.  Need help? Click the Help button in the toolbar above.

8Muddypaws

  • ---
  • Posts: 2912
Re: Best way to learn guitar for beginners
« Reply #56 on: October 22, 2019, 11:11:17 PM »
limits?  Today’s limits are tomorrow’s milestones. 

Today I reached a limit and wasn’t able to create a drum and bass track.  I gave up after about 45 minutes.  After cooling down, having dinner and walking the dogs I started all over and was able to build them both in about an hour.  While watching TV.

My friend Larry, the one who toured with ELO and a bunch of other big name acts, says being a guitarist is like being a gunslinger.  There’s always going to be a faster gun coming along.  There are lots of faster guns from my vantage point.

Tom S.  Play that high E as 0-7-9-9-9-12, use your pinky on the 12th fret.  Or try 0-7-9-9-12-12 to add a slightly different flavor.  When everybody else is playing 0-2-2-1-0-0 it adds a something to the mix.

I like weird chords.  It’s gotten me booted out of a couple of bluegrass groups.   ::)
Retired computer professional
Musician, songwriter,  mediocre guitar player.
2006 Bounder 34H, 2008 CR-V Toad

SeilerBird

  • ---
  • Posts: 14525
Re: Best way to learn guitar for beginners
« Reply #57 on: October 23, 2019, 05:07:45 AM »
Quote
Tom S.  Play that high E as 0-7-9-9-9-12, use your pinky on the 12th fret.  Or try 0-7-9-9-12-12 to add a slightly different flavor.  When everybody else is playing 0-2-2-1-0-0 it adds a something to the mix.
My pinky won't reach the 12th fret. It is pretty uncoordinated. For example I have never been able to play the Chuck Berry power chord with the pinky going on and off two frets up. I have pretty small hands and my fingers are pretty fat.

knucklebucket

  • ---
  • Posts: 30
Re: Best way to learn guitar for beginners
« Reply #58 on: October 23, 2019, 06:57:02 AM »
I personally would not recommend buying a uke first. if your not the type that likes it? you will not stay interested very long. I play professionally. I have been playing all my life. but as much as I know some musicians don't like, I did not take lessons, or music theory. my passion for playing was enough for me to stay involved. it doesn't matter if you plan on being great or not, only that you get satisfaction from it. buy yourself an acoustic. sit around friends or campers that play, learn a little here and a little there. you will find over time you have met new friends and learned how to play guitar to any extent. just my two cents.

8Muddypaws

  • ---
  • Posts: 2912
Re: Best way to learn guitar for beginners
« Reply #59 on: October 23, 2019, 09:05:13 AM »
My pinky won't reach the 12th fret. It is pretty uncoordinated. For example I have never been able to play the Chuck Berry power chord with the pinky going on and off two frets up. I have pretty small hands and my fingers are pretty fat.

Ar Ar Ar.  Somebody once commented that my left hand looks like some sort of fat little spider.  I can identify with that.  The broken bones left me with no visible knuckles.

Watch Howard Alden play.  We opened for him at the start of the Concord Jazz series one year.  (We opened the series for about 10  years). I was backstage warming up and he grinned as he watched.  Then I saw him play and realized he was laughing.  I was playing / singing Michael Johnson’s “Dirty Hands”.  Gunslingers.  I’m a potato farmer among gunslingers.
Retired computer professional
Musician, songwriter,  mediocre guitar player.
2006 Bounder 34H, 2008 CR-V Toad