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Author Topic: Does it make sense to own a motorhome?  (Read 758 times)

Isaac-1

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Does it make sense to own a motorhome?
« on: November 07, 2019, 05:17:24 PM »
Don't get me wrong I enjoy owning and using our coach, however during my recent month long trip (ok that is an exaggeration, it was only 25 days).     I started to think about how much use does one really need to get out of a motorhome for it to be worth owning vs the option of renting.  So today I decided to do a bit of research on rental rates, etc, looking at renting something roughly comparable to what I have (a sub 30 ft class A), using the web sites for a few rental companies whose coaches I have seen on the road (B&B RV out of Denver, etc.), I have found their daily rental rate typically runs $300-$450 per day depending on location and season, though some places will rent a sub 30 ft class A for as little as $150 per day in the off season.   For easy math sake I will use the figure of $300 per day rental rate, though again rates vary, and some places give discounts on rentals over 5-7 days...

For people that take a single 14 day vacation per year this would be $4,200, excluding incidental expenses, transportation to the pickup point, etc.

Lets compare this to cost of ownership of a used class A of similar size, for this comparison I am using RV's made by a major brand around 10 years of age, (something generally comparable to recent models based on the current Ford F53 chassis) I choose sub 30 ft Winnebago class A's listed on RV Trader, and we get a  price point of about $32,000, give or take, so something new enough to be financed, but just barely.   Lets further assume that with that this RV will last another 10 years before being sold for under $9,000, and is financed at 5% over 10 years (based on published rv interest rates, rounded up to the nearest percent), which results in a loan amount of $340 per month over 10 years which puts the total payback at $40,800 assuming the full $32,000 was financed.

So if we take $40,800 - $9,000 = $31,800 (the amount back when the RV is sold) at the end of  10 years and divide that out by 10 years, this amount alone covers 3/4 of the cost of a  2 week rental once per year.    Now once we add on cost of insurance (I am paying around $700 per year so lets use that) we get another $7,000 in expense over 10 years, plus wear and tear, assume 2 full sets of 6 tires at $300 per tire over 10 years (making the assumption new tires will be needed shortly after purchase, then again a couple of years before the RV is sold) we get 12X300 = $3,600, new batteries replaced every 5 years, lets assume 2 deep cycle and 1 starting battery at $150 each ($900), this is all before we start talking repairs, storage, fee's, major appliance replacement (refrigerator, air conditioner, generator etc.) which in my experience is going to run another $500+ per year amortized over the years, or another $4,000.  Then of course there is the drive train stuff, oil changes, brakes, alternators, ....   

Once you add all this us, economically it seems that if you don't use such a coach at least 3-4 weeks per year, perhaps more you are likely better off renting, depending on your individual circumstance (do you have to pay for storage, how much, do you DIY repairs, or pay a shop, ...).

What do you think, am I wrong, and will this math change the suggestions you make to people coming here thinking about buying their first RV.

Ike

p.s. in the real world my cost of maintenance doing most jobs DIY on my current coach which is a 2002 model I bought in 2016, has greatly exceeded these numbers, though much of that was to do upgrades, and not absolutely essential to continued operation.  Even then my repair cost over the last couple of years has exceeded an average of $1,500 per year on NON DIY stuff being paid to shops (ball joints, dash air conditioner repair, etc.)

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Larry N.

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Re: Does it make sense to own a motorhome?
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2019, 05:55:31 PM »
If you have to financially "justify" owning your own coach, then it doesn't make sense at all, unless maybe you're full timing, or living in it a large part of the year. You need to have it "make sense" by other criteria than financial, such as wanting to have your own bed, to not have to haul a suitcase into motels, to have something ready to go wherever you want on almost a moment's notice, to just have the comfort and options available to you to stay out two days, a week, two months, or whatever suits your fancy at the time, and I'm sure others can find other reasons besides financial.
Larry and Mary Ann N.
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Back2PA

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Re: Does it make sense to own a motorhome?
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2019, 06:07:36 PM »
If you have to financially "justify" owning your own coach, then it doesn't make sense at all, unless maybe you're full timing, or living in it a large part of the year. You need to have it "make sense" by other criteria than financial, such as wanting to have your own bed, to not have to haul a suitcase into motels, to have something ready to go wherever you want on almost a moment's notice, to just have the comfort and options available to you to stay out two days, a week, two months, or whatever suits your fancy at the time, and I'm sure others can find other reasons besides financial.


Agree 100%. From a strictly financial perspective if you're taking a couple trips per year renting is the better option. Or B&B it and a rental car
Scott
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spdracr39

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Re: Does it make sense to own a motorhome?
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2019, 07:35:07 PM »
I guess since I am in mine at least 12-14 weeks per year I'm good to go :)

Wi1dBill

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Re: Does it make sense to own a motorhome?
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2019, 07:45:33 PM »
Had a similar debate in my head.  To buy a park model in Az. for the winter or a bigger 5th wheel.   Bought a bigger 5'r but the decision ended up not so much about the cost.  In scale of 1 to 10 the cost came in 6th place.


Wi1dBi11

Isaac-1

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Re: Does it make sense to own a motorhome?
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2019, 07:54:03 PM »
This was not about to RV or not to RV, but more of a what type of RV'ing might make sense depending on ones situation.

I was not looking at it just from the financial aspect, but also considering some of the human aspects, like time and effort that goes into all the ownership side of things, as well as the potential convenience of flying to distant destinations then renting an RV, vs driving across country if dealing with limited free time.  Though certainly having ones on bed, and having everything set up just so, are important factors as well.

This also was not something really for myself, as I mentioned I like our current coach, plan to keep it for a number of years, and tend to use it way more than 2-3 weeks per year, so far this year that amount totals to around 50 days, and the last 2 years it has been upwards of 75 days per year.  Though perhaps something I would consider if something were to happen to our current coach.
2002 Safari Trek 2830

NY_Dutch

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Re: Does it make sense to own a motorhome?
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2019, 09:41:43 PM »
We've only managed 311 days in our motorhome so far this year, but I'm pretty sure we passed the point where owning outweighed renting some time ago... ;)
Dutch
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KandT

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Re: Does it make sense to own a motorhome?
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2019, 10:17:50 PM »
This was not about to RV or not to RV, but more of a what type of RV'ing might make sense depending on ones situation.

I was not looking at it just from the financial aspect, but also considering some of the human aspects, like time and effort that goes into all the ownership side of things, as well as the potential convenience of flying to distant destinations then renting an RV, vs driving across country if dealing with limited free time.  Though certainly having ones on bed, and having everything set up just so, are important factors as well.

This also was not something really for myself, as I mentioned I like our current coach, plan to keep it for a number of years, and tend to use it way more than 2-3 weeks per year, so far this year that amount totals to around 50 days, and the last 2 years it has been upwards of 75 days per year.  Though perhaps something I would consider if something were to happen to our current coach.

While figuring out our next RV purchase, we planned a vacation about 2000 miles away so for $450/ticket we are flying and getting an air bnb.  We aren't retired though so time is important.  I would rather take my time and cruise across the country with only a rough template of how we are going from A to B. 

In my humble opinion, you should enjoy the maintenance of the RV otherwise dont buy one!!
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tote

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Re: Does it make sense to own a motorhome?
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2019, 11:23:50 PM »
We picked up a used Class C. Old, fairly clean and a 4x4 conversion.
EXACTLY the design we were looking for.
Put some money into it making it look and perform fantastic; especially inside.
We keep it under an RV port at home.
Living in CA with all the wildfires and power outages it makes more sense TO have one than not.
It's our bug-out vehicle; always ready to go.
Power goes out we move the fridge stuff in the house to the motorhome.
Wake up in the morning, go to the motorhome, crank the heat and put on a pot of coffee..
Heaven forbid we do have a fire in this neck of the woods it's gassed up and ready to roll.
At lease we will have a place for a while if we lose our house to fire.
Besides, we are very spur of the moment people.
Wake up and get a wild hair and feel like heading to Tahoe; get in and go.
No need to try to find a rental. I'm on the road in 5 minutes with the motorhome.
Some things you just can't put a price on.



John From Detroit

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Re: Does it make sense to own a motorhome?
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2019, 05:31:04 AM »
I live full time in my RV. got rid of the sticks and bricks.
House: Taxes were ofer 3 grand a year. .RV less than 500
Utilities Gas and Electric 200-250/month  Water 50   RV included in parking 90 summer about 200 winter.
Yes it does burn some gas when I change sites.
Repairs.. vary from repair to repair. one A/C 1000 v/s several for central air. water heater about half price. Fridge roughly identical.
Nothing adds excitement like something that is none of your business
My Home is where I park it.

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Does it make sense to own a motorhome?
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2019, 09:11:15 AM »
I think renting an RV makes a lot of financial sense for many Rvers, anybody who spends less than maybe 30 nights/year in them. Maybe even 60 nights. However, renting has a major downside in convenience and  "have it your way" comfort.  Whether that has a financial value to you is a personal matter - for some it's a big deal.  And if you want to go camping most every weekend  for a couple months, getting a 2-3 day rental every Friday afternoon is a nuisance. For a vacation traveler, that is less of a drawback.

Back when we were workamping in New England for 5 years, we were acquainted with a school-teacher couple from California who took a 30 day motorhome vacation to Maine (etc) coast every year.   They rented a 37-40 ft coach every year because they had determined it cost just over half what ownership would be.  A chunk of that was storage fees because they had no space at their home to keep their own rig, but depreciation was the big hit, followed by maintenance cost.  They were not inclined toward DIY maintenance, meaning they would have to pay for routine service.
Gary
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mel s

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Re: Does it make sense to own a motorhome?
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2019, 11:00:51 AM »
Don't get me wrong I enjoy owning and using our coach, however during my recent month long trip (ok that is an exaggeration, it was only 25 days).     I started to think about how much use does one really need to get out of a motorhome for it to be worth owning vs the option of renting.

Isaac
If it did everyone would own one.

thelazyl

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Re: Does it make sense to own a motorhome?
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2019, 12:54:41 PM »
Our strategy 12 months ago was to try RVing via a Class A rental.  We were going to rent from a private party but had 2 issues - not being able to take our 2 dogs and also difficulty getting insurance though their carrier or ours.  We took a leap of faith and bought one - and have never regretted it.  We've been on 15 trips - most of them decided a day or two in advance.  In our case we are willing to accept that RVing is not cheap - but we are at a point where we can afford it and the cost is well worth it.  I am frugal with some things but not others.  RVing counts as "not others". 


UTTransplant

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Re: Does it make sense to own a motorhome?
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2019, 06:31:12 PM »
Does it make sense to own wood working equipment? Does it make sense to own an off road vehicle? Does it make sense to buy craft supplies instead of buying completed items? It isnít all about the money; it is about the experience. Justifying an RV for money saved is not a very worthwhile endeavor since you arenít accounting for the intangibles.
Pam and Kevin plus Lily the cat
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FL-Joe

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Re: Does it make sense to own a motorhome?
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2019, 06:43:57 PM »
RVs are horrible investments.  They all get bad fuel economy, drop in value quickly, require constant upkeep, and are expensive to insure. 

The OP made some very good points about limited RV renting for short periods of travel each year.  I'm sure it would be cheaper than ownership, unless you rented for longer than 40 to 50 days probably.

But if you rent an RV for 30 days is that really like traveling in your own RV?  Do you really have all your "stuff" with you and do you feel like it is your "home away from home" while doing a short term rental?  I doubt it would be the same.  Money wise you would certainly be better off traveling in a vehicle and spending $100 to $125 per night on motels IMHO.
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Isaac-1

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Re: Does it make sense to own a motorhome?
« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2019, 06:45:55 PM »
The debate I questioned here was not about RV travel, but only if ownership vs renting made sense, and if so for what portion of the RV'ing community.  There is no doubt that ownership makes sense for full timers, and probably for the vast majority of seasonal RV'ers, but what about those that are still working full time with limited vacation days per year.
2002 Safari Trek 2830

NY_Dutch

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Re: Does it make sense to own a motorhome?
« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2019, 07:04:05 PM »
The debate I questioned here was not about RV travel, but only if ownership vs renting made sense, and if so for what portion of the RV'ing community.  There is no doubt that ownership makes sense for full timers, and probably for the vast majority of seasonal RV'ers, but what about those that are still working full time with limited vacation days per year.

I think there are far too many variables involved to come up with a "one size fits all" answer to your question. Even if you only assess the financial considerations there will still be too many variables. Realistically, you can only answer from your own perspective and situation. Buying a $20,000 used motorhome versus a $200,000 new motorhome for instance, would require an entirely different set of calculations. Disposable income is another big factor in the decision process. If that $20,000 represents "pocket change" in your financial situation, that would be significantly different from someone that sees $20,000 as a major purchase. And the same goes for the $200,000 RV of course...
Dutch
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Isaac-1

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Re: Does it make sense to own a motorhome?
« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2019, 07:56:36 PM »
I agree that the economics I calculated do not work for everyone, I just meant it as an example starting point.  Also it seems the rental availability of larger class A diesel pushers is limited, ....  As to disposable income, this may matter for some people, but I feel that most people are somewhat frugal with their money, when visiting a city they tend to rent cars or use taxi / limo services, vs buying a car to use for a week, the same logic applies here.  Sure there are exceptions, but they are certainly not in the majority.
2002 Safari Trek 2830

NY_Dutch

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Re: Does it make sense to own a motorhome?
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2019, 08:14:58 PM »
Economics aside, there's also the 'X' factor. Many of us see RV use as a lifestyle choice where we prefer knowing who slept in our bed last, sat on our toilet, etc. Any of us that have owned more than one RV know the frustration that goes with finding new homes for all of our "stuff" when we first get that new rig. That could get really old really fast with rentals when it has to be done every trip, just as it does for hotel/motel rooms. I have no idea how to factor that into the calculations, but it's certainly something to consider.
Dutch
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Gizmo100

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Re: Does it make sense to own a motorhome?
« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2019, 09:24:09 PM »
Economics aside, there's also the 'X' factor. Many of us see RV use as a lifestyle choice where we prefer knowing who slept in our bed last, sat on our toilet, etc.

What this guy said........

Also..

My wife has medical conditions that can make traveling difficult. By taking our "Home" with us we can avoid or minimize some of those problems.

And then we can't forget.....

During our move to AR from AL we stayed with the MIL. The TT gave me a place to take refuge during the day. You could call it my man cave.

And last...

Since our new home is much smaller we can use the TT as a guestroom as needed.

So for us it's been money well spent.
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decaturbob

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Re: Does it make sense to own a motorhome?
« Reply #20 on: November 09, 2019, 07:36:42 AM »
RVs are horrible investments.  They all get bad fuel economy, drop in value quickly, require constant upkeep, and are expensive to insure. 

The OP made some very good points about limited RV renting for short periods of travel each year.  I'm sure it would be cheaper than ownership, unless you rented for longer than 40 to 50 days probably.

But if you rent an RV for 30 days is that really like traveling in your own RV?  Do you really have all your "stuff" with you and do you feel like it is your "home away from home" while doing a short term rental?  I doubt it would be the same.  Money wise you would certainly be better off traveling in a vehicle and spending $100 to $125 per night on motels IMHO.

nobody buys any RV as an  "investment".   I bought our used RV a a means to travel and to that end it is perfect.  We can stay in Florida or Arizona for months at time in high quality RV parks way cheaper than any rental or AirBnb type places in same locations during peak seasonal months. We travel with our pets, which is real problematic with rentals most every where.  The big upside? Our fellow RV'ers we meet everywhere we go, We are all part of gang of people with lots of knowledge and living of life.

Goes back to what you want as well as your own skills and knowledge.  If the  you are "unhandy", owning an RV rarely makes sense if you have to pay for everything that needs to be done. If you don;t like people, then RV parks are not for you.
proud to have a 2008 Tioga 31M MH towing a 2010 Ford Escape around America

FL-Joe

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Re: Does it make sense to own a motorhome?
« Reply #21 on: November 09, 2019, 07:41:41 AM »
I think there are far too many variables involved to come up with a "one size fits all" answer to your question. Even if you only assess the financial considerations there will still be too many variables. Realistically, you can only answer from your own perspective and situation. Buying a $20,000 used motorhome versus a $200,000 new motorhome for instance, would require an entirely different set of calculations. Disposable income is another big factor in the decision process. If that $20,000 represents "pocket change" in your financial situation, that would be significantly different from someone that sees $20,000 as a major purchase. And the same goes for the $200,000 RV of course...

He is spot on.  Everyone's situation is totally different.  A business owner I just talked to recently started getting away for a month or so each year to travel in their first TT toy hauler.  They used to travel for a month all over on their motorcycle and stay in motels.  Now with their first ever RV they are hauling the bike and staying at Walmarts and BLM lands. 

For them this new RV travel is a lot cheaper than they way they did it before.  With not much money invested in their first RV it would make zero financial sense for them to ever rent for a month instead of owning.
Full Time Traveling This Great Country!
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scottydl

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Re: Does it make sense to own a motorhome?
« Reply #22 on: November 09, 2019, 01:33:44 PM »
Owning vs. "owing" is a factor as well. When you buy something in cash (i.e. you can actually afford it) and gently used, then you really aren't losing much value by keeping it -- even with limited use, unless you want/need the resale cash for something else.

I bought our Suburban and trailer for ~$15k combined about 4 years ago. I could probably sell them for about $12k combined today. We are weekend/vacationers and at first used the rig several times per year (including annual weeklong vacations), but this past summer was BUSY and we only did a short vacation. 1 use, 4 days. But I'm not going to sell it, at least not yet. It costs me very little to keep (about $125 annually for insurance and registration) and we like having the camping option at any given time. It's parked in our side driveway at home, has all our "stuff" in it, and I almost consider it an extension to our residence. Sometimes I use it as a getaway or quiet place to hang out for awhile. It's definitely a toy, but I bought smart and can afford it without any impact on the rest of our budget or wealth-building potential.

Life stages are what have brought us in and out of RV ownership over the years too. With our kids getting into Jr. High / HS age, school activities are picking up (including summers) and that takes away from available camping time. We sold our first motorhome to help pay off our student loan debt, and may eventually do the same with the current trailer to finish paying off our S&B house. But after that, and as the kids start driving and doing "their own thing", I'd imagine we'll save up cash and buy/own again. That just has a different feeling then renting someone else's stuff whenever we want to hit the road.
Scott, wife, 3 boys... and the dog
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SpencerPJ

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Re: Does it make sense to own a motorhome?
« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2019, 01:59:19 PM »
I'm right with Scottydl, could not have said it better  :))
We had Class C probably 12 years, but when kids hit Middle school and beyond, no time.  Sports consumed us, summer travel leagues especially.  Sold it, stopped camping for a few years.  Kids migrated to college, no sports or kids, bought a TT and stow it beside the garage.  Use it maybe 6-8X a year, mostly 3-4 day extended weekends, one week trip.  We camp often with other friends with similar situation as us. Ironically, the adult kids still find a way to attend, probably the great food and free alcohol, lol.  Kids expand their families, I might consider a larger TT or 5r, it would be used, and just a place to gather and share good times.  I don't ever see us traveling the West, we tend to jet across country and rent a car, stay in lodges and the like.  Owning a 'motor' home is a bit different.  The maintenance and upkeep is much more involved.   
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SargeW

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Re: Does it make sense to own a motorhome?
« Reply #24 on: November 10, 2019, 10:09:02 AM »
I would be the first to admit that owning any type of RV is a horrible investment if you measured it financially. But we figured out long ago that for us, the RV has provided a wealth of life experiences that can not be duplicated sitting home watching nature and travel programs on TV. 

We started Rving as a curiosity, and over time it morphed into a hobby, to a passion, and a lifestyle.  No amount of money in the bank could ever replace the memories, experiences, and friends we have made from all the places that we have visited, and all the ones that we are yet to experience.

In the end it's all a personal decision based on what is right for you. I don't try to convince anyone to become a RVer, we just share experiences.   
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garyb1st

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Re: Does it make sense to own a motorhome?
« Reply #25 on: November 10, 2019, 11:48:00 AM »
If I knew what I know now, when I bought my first motorhome and was only going to use it for 3 or 4 weeks a year, I'd rent.  Aside from purchase price, there are other considerations for a prospective purchaser.  First and foremost, where are you going to park it.  That cost alone in Los Angeles for uncovered parking is between $150 and $250 a month.  So unless you live in the boonies, or can't park it at the house, rent.  Then there's maintenance.  Once a year and not a big deal.  But if the motorhome is only used on weekends or maybe one trip for 3 or 4 weeks then mileage will be pretty low  So if on average 1,500 a year for 10 years, then 15,000 miles in total.  Still it will need replacement for barely used tires and batteries.   Think new tires and batteries from the get to.  Then after 5 to 7 years, another set.  And what about towing.  A tow bar and base plate for the toad.  A braking system for the toad.   We don't even have to talk about the expense of traveling.  It's already a don't buy decision. 

But this is all based on what I know after owning RV's for 10 years.   If I was new, I'd probably buy.  But that's only because I can afford it and want it. 
Gary B1st

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decaturbob

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Re: Does it make sense to own a motorhome?
« Reply #26 on: November 10, 2019, 01:57:40 PM »
If I knew what I know now, when I bought my first motorhome and was only going to use it for 3 or 4 weeks a year, I'd rent.  Aside from purchase price, there are other considerations for a prospective purchaser.  First and foremost, where are you going to park it.  That cost alone in Los Angeles for uncovered parking is between $150 and $250 a month.  So unless you live in the boonies, or can't park it at the house, rent.  Then there's maintenance.  Once a year and not a big deal.  But if the motorhome is only used on weekends or maybe one trip for 3 or 4 weeks then mileage will be pretty low  So if on average 1,500 a year for 10 years, then 15,000 miles in total.  Still it will need replacement for barely used tires and batteries.   Think new tires and batteries from the get to.  Then after 5 to 7 years, another set.  And what about towing.  A tow bar and base plate for the toad.  A braking system for the toad.   We don't even have to talk about the expense of traveling.  It's already a don't buy decision. 

But this is all based on what I know after owning RV's for 10 years.   If I was new, I'd probably buy.  But that's only because I can afford it and want it.

Like I said too many variables. I have totally secure storage for $35/ month and it's 5 minutes from my house AND directly across from our local PD. The other factor is your expertise with maintaining. If you have to pay others to do that, it's way more costly.
proud to have a 2008 Tioga 31M MH towing a 2010 Ford Escape around America

Pugapooh

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Re: Does it make sense to own a motorhome?
« Reply #27 on: November 10, 2019, 09:03:23 PM »
So far,we have averaged 10-14 days per year.  Probably doesn't make one bit of sense.  Bigger truck needed.  Nope,no rational reason at all.  But we can take our dog.  And I always wanted an RV.  Lol.  The idea of taking some comforts of home is kind of priceless though.  Yes,it can be hard to reach your destination and still have to set up,no matter how exhausting the day was.

We did a fair amount of tent camping when I was little.  Turns out that camping is way more fun when you are a kid.  The adults are working their butts off!  No wonder they sit around the campfire with adult beverages.

If we had to pay for storage,it would be a game changer.  It blocks half the driveway but oh well.  I hope we can spend more time in it when my husband retires.  I don't know that we would travel for months and all over the country but hope to see some new things.
2006 Dutchmen Denali 29 RL fiver
2006 Dodge 2500 Big Horn
2001 GMC Sierra 3500

Lynx0849

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Re: Does it make sense to own a motorhome?
« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2019, 02:40:11 PM »
We plan to buy a used 5th wheel in about 16 months to use initially as a mobile condo in the tween time from listing our current house until we can move in to the next one. We figure it could be up to 9 months. Initially we would locate not far from current house while stuff gets moved out. Later, we would locate near the next house while building or renovating.
We figured rather than paying to stay in hotels or renting a short term apartment, buying the rv makes financial sense as we have to spend for somewhere to live, we might as well end up with something we can use afterward to see the country.
Rob & Deryl, Nettle, Tigger & Mai
Clyde, a 2015 RAM 3500 Cummins Longhorn SRW w/ARE cap
14í V nose utility trailer as mini toy hauler (for now)
N1ICB (Nursing 1 Ice Cold Beer)

TheBar

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Re: Does it make sense to own a motorhome?
« Reply #29 on: November 11, 2019, 08:29:12 PM »
It also depends on your climate. If you can camp year round without driving too far it will get used way more often.
Retired factory automation computer programmer
Cabin fever solution: 30' Class C and Starcraft popup
DW loves camping more than I do