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Author Topic: Lifeline vs Full River AGMs  (Read 295 times)

AJW

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Lifeline vs Full River AGMs
« on: November 08, 2019, 10:02:04 AM »
I have been using 6 Lifeline 6V AGMs for 5 years in my coach. This year arrived at Yuma (Imperial Dam) and it seems they have gone to hell in a hand basket! After a full charge (solar) to 100% via TM2025 about 4:00 am I get a low voltage alarm on my fridge. Down to 11.0 V. The other night watching a hockey game my inverter shut down on low voltage again after having charged them fully. I have noticed in the last 6 months they have not been lasting nearly as well as they used to. I phoned a dealer and he stated that the Lifelines are not what they used to be! Methinks I am going to replace them with the Full River GC224 6 V AGMs. Any thoughts?
Alex
2013 Sunova 33C
2010 Chevy Colorado 4X4
RCN (ret)

solarman

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Re: Lifeline vs Full River AGMs
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2019, 10:50:59 AM »
I have been using 6 Lifeline 6V AGMs for 5 years in my coach. This year arrived at Yuma (Imperial Dam) and it seems they have gone to hell in a hand basket! After a full charge (solar) to 100% via TM2025 about 4:00 am I get a low voltage alarm on my fridge. Down to 11.0 V. The other night watching a hockey game my inverter shut down on low voltage again after having charged them fully. I have noticed in the last 6 months they have not been lasting nearly as well as they used to. I phoned a dealer and he stated that the Lifelines are not what they used to be! Methinks I am going to replace them with the Full River GC224 6 V AGMs. Any thoughts?

part of the problem is the parallel setup.. I assume you have a 2S3P pack..

if you are going to parallel then any agm will do, you do not need premium batteries as you are unable to take full advantage of them.

have you ever run an equalizing cycle on these batteries ?
lifeline/concorde are one of a few that allow this. i'll wager you have not and are now sitting on sulfated batteries and wonder why they no longer perform.


replacement cost .... most 6 V GC2 like crown/trojan/fullriver are about $300 each
so you will spend $1800 or so for another 5 years.

if you insist on parallel arrangements, then why not consider
12 V 100 A/hr drop in lithium such as the battelborn. you will need approx 400 Ahr
to replace the 600 Ahr of agm.. so now thats close to $3600 for a possible 10 year battery and no parallel issues
that lead acid will give you. cost is approx that of agm if amortized over 10 years..

you will need to set your bulk/absorb to 14.4 V and float to 13.6 V





« Last Edit: November 08, 2019, 10:57:53 AM by solarman »
KZ MXT20 480 W solar
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Ram 2500 CTD

AJW

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Re: Lifeline vs Full River AGMs
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2019, 11:06:25 AM »
Sorry fat fingers that should have been 4 (four) 6V lifeline batteries and yes I have equalized.
Alex
2013 Sunova 33C
2010 Chevy Colorado 4X4
RCN (ret)

Kevin Means

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Re: Lifeline vs Full River AGMs
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2019, 11:50:00 AM »
Have your batteries routinely been charged with a standard lead/acid charging profile, or with an AGM charging profile? As Solarman eluded to, there's a slight difference, and from what I've read about AGMs (we have them too) a standard lead/acid charging profile will shorten their lives, somewhat. Our last set of AGMs (12 volt Group 31s) lasted seven years, and were only starting to show signs of age - slightly faster discharging and longer charging times.

Kev
2011 Winnebago Tour 42QD
Towing a Jeep Rubicon Unlimited LJ
RVI Brake 2, TST 507 TPMS, 960 watts of solar, SolaRVector tilt
Lakeside, California

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Lifeline vs Full River AGMs
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2019, 01:42:38 PM »
I won't say "myth", but I think the cautions about the charge profile are overstated.  There are lots of less-than-ideal operating characteristics in an RV house battery scenario and attributing poor performance to any one factor is just a shot in the dark. Ditto for parallel wiring (how else to get more capacity with 12v?), temperature, depth of discharge, etc. The combined effects of all of them can really hurt the lifespan of a battery. And we don't really control most of them, at least not completely. Are you going to sit in the dark because the battery SOC is a little lower than ideal? Or stay home rather than using the RV when the temps are too high for good battery performance? I don't think so...

As for anecdotal evidence (never very trustworthy!), I can say that my Trojan 31AGMs operated nicely for about 7 years with a standard charge profile (the only one my Xantrex RV2500 had). By the end of that time, the amp-hour capacity was noticeably reduced, maybe 75% of original and the 8th year was definitely weak, probably only 60% of the original  440 AH.
As for Full River vs Lifeline or Trojan, I cannot really say. They are all top-line brands, manufactured by small producers for the high quality market. I would be surprised if there is much difference among them as far as life and performance.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2019, 01:49:33 PM by Gary RV_Wizard »
Gary
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Gary Brinck
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solarman

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Re: Lifeline vs Full River AGMs
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2019, 10:52:04 AM »
Sorry fat fingers that should have been 4 (four) 6V lifeline batteries and yes I have equalized.

ok, well then they are now boat anchors.. life expectancy as advertised is under perfect conditions,
RV usage is far from that.. if you avoid freezing temperatures, then the lithium drop-ins are a good
alternative to agm and do not suffer from parallel issues.
KZ MXT20 480 W solar
ORV 24RKS 960 Watts solar
48V LFP, 2000W inverter/charger
Ram 2500 CTD

solarman

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Re: Lifeline vs Full River AGMs
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2019, 11:06:13 AM »
Ditto for parallel wiring (how else to get more capacity with 12v?)

this is a matter of education.. however, manufacturers are deaf to correct solutions, they only have ears for accountants
and therefore the customer is stuck with a poor solution from day 1.

a better way for 12 Volts is to choose 2 or 4 Volt cells of the required capacity, so if you need 600 Ahr then
use 600 A/hr cells.. there is no need to parallel 12 V batteries at all..

even better would be go up in voltage and gain the required wattage capacity with 24 or 48 Volts.
but it would seem that the majority of the RV world is still stuck at 12 V in some sort of luddite mentality.

only when the industry wakes up and discovers higher voltages will things change.
 
« Last Edit: November 14, 2019, 11:09:01 AM by solarman »
KZ MXT20 480 W solar
ORV 24RKS 960 Watts solar
48V LFP, 2000W inverter/charger
Ram 2500 CTD

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Lifeline vs Full River AGMs
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2019, 06:00:33 PM »
Quote
even better would be go up in voltage and gain the required wattage capacity with 24 or 48 Volts.
but it would seem that the majority of the RV world is still stuck at 12 V in some sort of luddite mentality.
Along with the automotive industry. Economics makes it very difficult to leave 12v systems behind, no matter how much 48v or similar would benefit in the on run.
Quote
a better way for 12 Volts is to choose 2 or 4 Volt cells of the required capacity, so if you need 600 Ahr then
use 600 A/hr cells.. there is no need to parallel 12 V batteries at all..
Right, just hop on over to the Walmart and pick up a 600AH, 12v battery.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2019, 06:02:26 PM by Gary RV_Wizard »
Gary
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Gary Brinck
Summers: Black Mountain, NC
Home: Ocala National Forest, FL