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Author Topic: Patriot Act Compliance  (Read 903 times)

Doc Roads

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Patriot Act Compliance
« on: February 17, 2020, 11:02:37 PM »
I received an urgent message from USAA FSB saying they need a physical address for me.  They specifically state a PMB is not acceptable.  I full time with no physical address other than my PMB in SD. 

My first reaction is they must not need my business anymore so Iíll transfer my business to a bank in SD.

Upon reading way too many posts, the common response is give them an address of a relative or a friend ... no problem.  Really.  I can do that but ... is it really meeting the requirements of the law?

Any ideas on where this issue is going?  Most posts were years old ... is this still a square filler or is this a renewed effort to enforce actual compliance? 

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LarsMac

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Re: Patriot Act Compliance
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2020, 11:58:54 PM »
My first thought is to verify the originator of that request. There are far too many scams being initiated by spoof organizations. And, there is word out about some spoofs of USAA FSB communications.
https://www.usaa.com/inet/wc/security_how_avoid_identify_scams?akredirect=true
 
Second, a relative with whom you are in regular contact, and visit often should suffice if the request is genuine.
 
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Arch Hoagland

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Re: Patriot Act Compliance
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2020, 12:19:11 AM »
I agree with LarsMac..... Call USAA and find out what is going on.
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Dreamsend

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Re: Patriot Act Compliance
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2020, 01:06:40 AM »
I received an urgent message from USAA FSB saying they need a physical address for me.  They specifically state a PMB is not acceptable.  I full time with no physical address other than my PMB in SD. 

My first reaction is they must not need my business anymore so Iíll transfer my business to a bank in SD.

Upon reading way too many posts, the common response is give them an address of a relative or a friend ... no problem.  Really.  I can do that but ... is it really meeting the requirements of the law?

Any ideas on where this issue is going?  Most posts were years old ... is this still a square filler or is this a renewed effort to enforce actual compliance?

I don't think this has anything to do with hacking or scamming as there is nothing in the outcome to benefit a hacker.  Nothing has changed with regard to bank's and requirements of the Patriot Act.  However, the law ONLY requires you provide them a physical address, such as a friend or relative, but you ARE NOT required to use that address as your mailing address.  You are free to live anywhere, and use as many mailing addresses you want and the Patriot Act has no impact on this.  Your PMB is an actual physical address, but don't try to argue that point with a bank functionary who has no concept of legal domicile, vs. home, vs. residence etc. 

As long as everything is on the up and up with your bank (no scaming), and you're happy with doing business with them just provide them your PMB as your mailing address.  It's possible that the bank was audited and some stickler (or attorney type) has interpreted the Pat Act as actually "requiring" a physical address which they are thinking (erroneously) means physically living there, when in fact most banks and credit card companies are not interpreting it this way.  I full time and use Charles Schwab Bank and there is no more conservative, legalistic group than C. Schwab and they have no problem with my using my South Dakota PMB and they have never required anything else - because again, in reality, a PMB is a physical location.  Same with American Express, Chase Bank, United Health Care, the IRS, Social Security etc. etc.  No problems with using just a PMB.

I hope this is just an isolated case and not indicative of increased compliance enforcement cause it could mean I'll get contacted by someone to provide a "physical address" as well.  If I am harrassed, I'll simply use the person who has my Power of Attorney. 

Hope this suggestion will work for you.

Linda
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Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Patriot Act Compliance
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2020, 07:43:30 AM »
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Nothing has changed with regard to bank's and requirements of the Patriot Act.
True, but Patriot Act implementation was staged over a number of years and various provisions have become mandatory as time passes.  Some finance and transportation institutions are still scrambling to catch up as deadlines pass.

My blind brother-in-law just learned that his state-issued legal ID card doesn't meet Patriot Act requirements to get on an airplane. He goes to get a new one issued and finds the state agency that does that for non-drivers still isn't issuing compatible IDs. Come back in a couple weeks, they tell him. My flight is in 2.5 weeks, he says. They say, 'Oh, we should have them by then'.  :-\
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Dreamsend

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Re: Patriot Act Compliance
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2020, 08:06:59 AM »
The requirement that states issue Patriot Act legal IDs (and/or DLS) was never meant to be delayed nor was there any type of staggered implementation schedule depending on what you lived in written into the law. It became delayed, with various dates of implementation because individual states could not get their act together to meet the original deadline or more likely, they just didn't like the idea of the Feds pushing them around. Maps of the projected dates when states would begin issuing PA legal IDs have been on the internet since at least 2015. This has been an on-going issue with dates being pushed further and further back since about 2015.  No staggered dates of implementation were ever written into the law and individual states were given extra time by the Feds on a case by case basis.  The fact remains that the Patriot Act does not require one to be living at the physical address provided to a bank or other financial institution.  And it is still legal, and should be acceptable to decent financial institutions that they use the mailing address of your choice for correspondence.

Your relative can always use a US Passport if they need to fly or have access to a Federal facility in lieu of using a PA issued legal ID. This fact is one of the reasons the Feds have allowed the delays caused by the states, because there has always been an alternative ID that would allow one to fly. This also has been in effect since PA was passed and was the major reason I renewed my passport several years ago when states were lagging in issuing legal DLs and IDs.

Arch -- one other thought.  I do all my banking via the internet and in 1.5 years have never had to receive anything by mail from bank.  I get statements, 1099s, etc. all via the computer.  Hope you can do the same with USAA.

Linda
« Last Edit: February 18, 2020, 08:14:52 AM by Dreamsend »
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Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Patriot Act Compliance
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2020, 08:37:00 AM »
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Your relative can always use a US Passport if they need to fly or have access to a Federal facility in lieu of using a PA issued legal ID.
Right. Just hop on over to the Walmart and pick up a passport.  ;)
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Robert K

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Re: Patriot Act Compliance
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2020, 09:40:35 AM »
Gary , is your brother in law in NY

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John From Detroit

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Re: Patriot Act Compliance
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2020, 04:56:59 PM »
I too have had no issues with the bank (Chase and a credit union)

My suggestion is always a Credit Union.. as an owner you have advantages.

Oh and my address is indeed a post office box store.. The bank accepts it. the State does not (For the state I live with my brother)... Poor city clerk's office has yet to figure that out. but hey... Political comment omitted.
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Domo

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Re: Patriot Act Compliance
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2020, 05:37:11 PM »
We were living in Florida when we went full time. I went online and changed our mailing address for license and registrations to our PMB - and changed our physical address to the license plate on our MH using the same town and zip code as our mailing address.

Everyone is happy... some folks have mentioned that street address of six letters and numbers with the word Tiffin after it a little weird... but heck - our banks, insurance, voting, SSI, everyone thinks it's okay.

We had tried to do the physical address change in person at the DMV - but it WAS the DMV and so it was impossible - until I went home and did it online - bless the Internet.
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Doc Roads

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Re: Patriot Act Compliance
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2020, 01:45:44 AM »
This requirement for a physical address is based on Patriot Act, section 326; Anti-money laundering enforcement.  USAA (or any bank) is required to have a Customer Identification Program or CIP.  There are four components that include ID card, SSN, vital documentation, checking terrorist watch lists, and a physical address.  USAA is narrowly interpreting it as your physical address of S&B.  According to Section 326, it can be an address of a next of kin, a rural route box, or even a physical description of the location of where one resides.  It canít be a post office box because it isnít based on your location.  This is not well explained by the email sent by USAA.  USAA has chose to extend that interpretation to a PMB as well. The law provides for the use of a next of kin address to fill this need as this person would know of your whereabouts.  The spirit and intent of the law is prevent money laundering and positively identify each customer.  USAA already verifies your Identity six ways to Sunday so the addition of a physical address does little to further determine if you are who are and you are not a money launderer.  Additionally, the Act  does not require the bank to verify the physical address.  The bank simply has to positively identify the customer doing business with them and determine the customer is not laundering money. So, one can use a next of kin address to comply with this requirement. The bank is compliant because a physical address is on file. Case closed.

Iím a bit disappointed USAA didnít clearly communicate the requirements and purpose in the first place.  Not disappointed enough to go through the pain of changing institutions, but disappointed nonetheless.  They could do much better.
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Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Patriot Act Compliance
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2020, 08:03:13 AM »
Quote
Gary , is your brother in law in NY
Florida. To be clear, the problem is with the ID card machine at the agency that assists the blind.  Florida DMV offices can and do issue non-driver Ids, but he would have to go in with his original proofs of identity and start over from scratch. And the normal process at the DMV isn't easy for the blind (despite the fact that some drivers seem to be blind  ;) ).  The blind assistance group already has his verified ID info on file so only needs to re-issue a card with the proper icon to show it is a verified ID. Right now their machine doesn't print that cards with the icon, but that is supposed to be upgraded soon.
Gary
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Doc Roads

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Re: Patriot Act Compliance
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2020, 11:39:45 AM »
 Sources for those wanting to follow up ...

https://www.fincen.gov/resources/statutes-regulations/guidance/interagency-interpretive-guidance-customer-identification

https://www.sec.gov/about/offices/ocie/aml2007/31cfr103.121.pdf

Further information may be found on the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network home page.  www.fincen.gov
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